David King’s Preseason Training Observations

[Go Ds 302]

Right now i think we have every reason to be quietly confident. (Admittedly I would have been quietly confident (of improvement at least) in years such as 2013 and 2019.)

I can certainly understanding wanting the AFL media to be some neutral entity, not over or underrating any team. But these days AFL, especially for 7/8 months, operates on a 24/7 basis with plenty wanting almost constant engagement with the sport, meaning anything remotely AFL-newsworthy becomes a topic of discussion. I'm sure some on here love that saturation coverage so I can't really criticise it that much. (Except when it's too personal or downright dishonest.)

[Bay Riffin 1,518]

17 hours ago, Pottsydee said:

It's a shame to see two great footballers reduced to saying anything in an attempt to stay relevant. I have no doubt King was impressed when attending training but history firmly suggests he will turn on a dime the second things go bad. Pumping "I knew this was coming". King and Cornes are a true reflection of the poor state of football media in this country. 

agreed. When most pundits were negative on getting Grundy in, I remember Cornes saying during the pre-season it was a 'brilliant' move. When we stopped playing him he turn coated and said what a disastrous decision that was. no credibility. 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,991]

On 31/01/2025 at 10:44, Dee Boys said:

It’s also not their jobs to be Dees nuffies like we are. Their job is to be objective, disinterested and to call things as they see them.

Their job is to make money for their proprietors. That is their only job.

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,991]

On 31/01/2025 at 22:34, Sigil said:

I just watched the video. A little bit of hyperbole in this thread tbh.

Also, only a small part of the overall show on radio. It was fine, a few insights from Kingy and the Cornholio nodding along at times.

Don't read too much into it is my view, and clickbait it was not. I enjoyed hearing about the Dees for a bit and that was that.

You're going to have a good time on 'Land this year then.

[Demonland 74,258]

Here's where Kingy thinks our list is at.

From about 2 mins in.

David King has grouped each AFL list into tiers ahead of the 2025 season.

Taking a Stawell Gift approach, King has handicapped the best 23s of the 18 AFL clubs as if they’re in a race - Off Scratch, Off 3 Metres, Off 5 Metres, Off 8 Metres and then two clubs not even in the conversation.

“Just lists, not about how they’ll perform or whether you like them or dislike them,” King said on SEN Breakfast.

“This is like the old Stawell Gift style, off scratch.

“It’s the best 23 that the coach has to work with on a weekly basis.”

Off Scratch

Top tier

Fremantle
Brisbane
GWS Giants

“Then I feel there’s a little gap.”

Off 3 Metres

Down a rung

Hawthorn
Collingwood
Carlton
Geelong
Melbourne

Off 5 Metres

Good average list

Sydney
Gold Coast
Essendon
Adelaide
Western Bulldogs

Off 8 Metres

Two rungs below AFL average

St Kilda
North Melbourne
Port Adelaide

Not in the conversation

Richmond
West Coast

[adonski 13,213]

King is quite insane.

[Ollie fan 3,671]

I think he is probably right about Brisbane and GWS; don't know about Freo though. The fact is that Brisbane have been gifted two gun F/S recruits for the price of a packet of Life Savers.

However, I think that our fitness and yes, our coaching lifts us above both of those teams.

[adonski 13,213]

Giants always get overrated by Vic media (is reverse VIC bias a thing?)

A midfield of Tom Green and the corpse of Kelly and Cogs has them primed for 9th

Edited February 3 by adonski

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,135]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

Here's where Kingy thinks our list is at.

From about 2 mins in.

David King has grouped each AFL list into tiers ahead of the 2025 season.

Taking a Stawell Gift approach, King has handicapped the best 23s of the 18 AFL clubs as if they’re in a race - Off Scratch, Off 3 Metres, Off 5 Metres, Off 8 Metres and then two clubs not even in the conversation.

“Just lists, not about how they’ll perform or whether you like them or dislike them,” King said on SEN Breakfast.

“This is like the old Stawell Gift style, off scratch.

“It’s the best 23 that the coach has to work with on a weekly basis.”

Off Scratch

Top tier

Fremantle
Brisbane
GWS Giants

“Then I feel there’s a little gap.”

Off 3 Metres

Down a rung

Hawthorn
Collingwood
Carlton
Geelong
Melbourne

Off 5 Metres

Good average list

Sydney
Gold Coast
Essendon
Adelaide
Western Bulldogs

Off 8 Metres

Two rungs below AFL average

St Kilda
North Melbourne
Port Adelaide

Not in the conversation

Richmond
West Coast

If you're a St Kilda supporter you must be wondering where the club is at. Whether you agree with King's rather laboured approach to this particular analysis or not, St Kilda seems to have been going backwards year after year since Ross Lyon's appointment.

[The Jackson FIX 3,498]

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

Here's where Kingy thinks our list is at.

From about 2 mins in.

David King has grouped each AFL list into tiers ahead of the 2025 season.

Taking a Stawell Gift approach, King has handicapped the best 23s of the 18 AFL clubs as if they’re in a race - Off Scratch, Off 3 Metres, Off 5 Metres, Off 8 Metres and then two clubs not even in the conversation.

“Just lists, not about how they’ll perform or whether you like them or dislike them,” King said on SEN Breakfast.

“This is like the old Stawell Gift style, off scratch.

“It’s the best 23 that the coach has to work with on a weekly basis.”

Off Scratch

Top tier

Fremantle
Brisbane
GWS Giants

“Then I feel there’s a little gap.”

Off 3 Metres

Down a rung

Hawthorn
Collingwood
Carlton
Geelong
Melbourne

Off 5 Metres

Good average list

Sydney
Gold Coast
Essendon
Adelaide
Western Bulldogs

Off 8 Metres

Two rungs below AFL average

St Kilda
North Melbourne
Port Adelaide

Not in the conversation

Richmond
West Coast

Port & Syd ooof

[GS_1905 309]

25 minutes ago, adonski said:

Giants always get overrated by Vic media (is reverse VIC bias a thing?)

A midfield of Tom Green and the corpse of Kelly and Cogs has them primed for 9th

But their forward and back lines are stacked. 

[Fritta and Turner 4,685]

23 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

If you're a St Kilda supporter you must be wondering where the club is at.

Like the Dees of 15 years ago.  Nothing they seem to do improves on what they already have.  Not prepared to take a risk and cannot seem to work out a strategy for going forward.  I wonder if the board is factionalised.

Anyway, ask again after round 6.

[Jjrogan 1,466]

1 hour ago, Fritta and Turner said:

Like the Dees of 15 years ago.  Nothing they seem to do improves on what they already have.  Not prepared to take a risk and cannot seem to work out a strategy for going forward.  I wonder if the board is factionalised.

Anyway, ask again after round 6.

Statistically their season was very similar to mfc last year.  Struggle in centre bounce clearances, low inside 50s, moving the ball etc. Defense held up, strong ruckman.   Their midfield is pushing against 30 also.   Their kids are decent. Darcy Wilson, Wanganeen, Owens. They beat Sydney, Geelong, Carlton in the last 8 weeks of the season (6-2).  They've had a bad preseason with injuries otherwise they would be a smoky this year at $5.50 to make the eight.  There's always a few. 

[GS_1905 309]

4 hours ago, Demonland said:

Here's where Kingy thinks our list is at.

From about 2 mins in.

David King has grouped each AFL list into tiers ahead of the 2025 season.

Taking a Stawell Gift approach, King has handicapped the best 23s of the 18 AFL clubs as if they’re in a race - Off Scratch, Off 3 Metres, Off 5 Metres, Off 8 Metres and then two clubs not even in the conversation.

“Just lists, not about how they’ll perform or whether you like them or dislike them,” King said on SEN Breakfast.

“This is like the old Stawell Gift style, off scratch.

“It’s the best 23 that the coach has to work with on a weekly basis.”

Off Scratch

Top tier

Fremantle
Brisbane
GWS Giants

“Then I feel there’s a little gap.”

Off 3 Metres

Down a rung

Hawthorn
Collingwood
Carlton
Geelong
Melbourne

Off 5 Metres

Good average list

Sydney
Gold Coast
Essendon
Adelaide
Western Bulldogs

Off 8 Metres

Two rungs below AFL average

St Kilda
North Melbourne
Port Adelaide

Not in the conversation

Richmond
West Coast

I think this is about right. A few curious choices - but understandably he wants to create  debate. 

Freo do have quality all over the park, but are hit and miss and not consistent enough . They have a lot of really good players but no genuine superstars. Young and Serong are great but can’t really turn a game akin to Trac, Neale, Dusty, Daicos etc. Bottom line -  not convinced they are top tier. 
 

Interesting re Sydney. Have thought all along their forward line is average at best. They probably sit with 2nd tier though.
 

Hawks play a sexy style of footy and have a list built for it. I think they got on a role last year and absolutely made the best of their fortunes. I don’t think they are that good yet. I expect them to finish somewhere between the bottom half of 7-10.

Id say we belong right where we ere placed. Before Trac went down last year, the only thing we were missing was a fit Oliver of which we played the second half of 2024 without successfully. We have potential to do some damage this year.  

[VNightCityLegend 150]

On 31/01/2025 at 08:08, Vandenberger With The Lot said:

Rare to hear a nice word from Kingy and Cornes, but nice to not be discussed for the wrong reasons at least

Lmao, why do people always act like the victim?

Cornes was big on us at the start of 2018, even tipped us to make the jump from 9th to top 4 and King has been our bigger media supporter from 2017-2020 until he rightfully started losing trust after diabolical 2019 and 2020 seasons. 

Had nothing but good to say about us in his SEN segments with Glenn Luff throughout 2018 especially. 

Edited February 3 by VNightCityLegend

[Roost it far 10,022]

That first list which differs from the above post has us at 12th. He’s massively overrating Freo, GWS, Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn. 
I’d go

Brisbane

Carlton

Sydney

second tier

Melbourne

GWS

Geelong

Hawthorn

Port Adelaide

third tier

St. Kilda (the new ninth specialists)

GCS

Collingwood

Adelaide

fourth tier

Rabble

 

                                                                    

                                                                                                               

Edited February 3 by Roost it far

[Damo 3,462]

Curnow Walsh and Newman are either still injured or have had very little pre-season due to recovery. I'd say Carlton are off to a slow start this year. We have, fingers crossed about Max and Trac, our best 28 ready to go. We should be 1st tier, I hope.

[Ollie fan 3,671]

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

That first list which differs from the above post has us at 12th. He’s massively overrating Freo, GWS, Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn. 
I’d go

Brisbane

Carlton

Sydney

second tier

Melbourne

GWS

Geelong

Hawthorn

Port Adelaide

third tier

St. Kilda (the new ninth specialists)

GCS

Collingwood

Adelaide

fourth tier

Rabble

 

                                                                    

                                                                                                               

I disagree about Carlton. Cripps got 45 votes in the Brownlow. That says as clearly as anything that he has NO other midfielders taking votes from him.

[Adam The God 30,703]

Carlton's problem is their list is ordinary after the top 5 or 6 stars, and their system under Voss is unimaginative. 

[BDA 23,048]

Carlton’s preseason travails don’t bode well for their prospects this year. I reckon they’ll finish somewhere between 6-10. 

[Roost it far 10,022]

I likely overrate Carlton but they have some amazing talent 

[Bay Riffin 1,518]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

I likely overrate Carlton but they have some amazing talent 

Jagga Smith was rated by many recruiters to be number 1 pick in a super draft and he looks a beauty. They pulled out of getting Houston to trade picks for Smith. Wise move. 

Freo also gained Shai Bolton who will make their midfield very hard to beat. just what they need. 

[Roost it far 10,022]

56 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Jagga Smith was rated by many recruiters to be number 1 pick in a super draft and he looks a beauty. They pulled out of getting Houston to trade picks for Smith. Wise move. 

Freo also gained Shai Bolton who will make their midfield very hard to beat. just what they need. 

Our first game against Freo will give a strong indication of where we’re at. A win would do wonders for the team. A 10 goal loss would leave many questions as to our ability to win the GF. Personally I think we’ve got the goods to beat the other 16 teams. We showed late in the season we can match it with Brisbane. Freo play that hard running, fast transition game that we can struggle against. However if you look at our recruits, we’ve improved in that area. I’m really hoping Sharp can make the wing his own and allow us to play Windsor and McVee as 2 attacking half backs. We’ve then got Lindsay and Langford as 2 further midfield options, one who can go forward and one who can play back. If Sharp disappoints Lindsay can potentially play the wing role. These guys are all good kicks, Sharp to a lesser extent on that front. Our defence looks much stronger with Petty back and if Turner continues to improve our attack improves. 
You may think I’m optimistic about our ability to match Brisbane but they are beatable as their first 2 finals show, they’ve also lost Daniher which is a big loss. The smoky for mine is Johnson. If he or Jefferson can make the 3rd tall role their own then we’re right in it. I like Johnson for his potential to help Max. We need Max absolutely cherry ripe in September and I don’t believe he will be if he’s needed for big minutes throughout the season. Ideally he needs a quarter and a half on the pine and longer once games are won. Johnson needs to become the workhorse. 
I think we have less weaknesses than last year. Langford is an obvious Brayshaw replacement and potentially with a bigger upside forward of centre. If Petracca and Langford can rotate mid/forward and Rivers has another strong year then our midfield is automatically stronger and more dynamic. 
Throw in an improved Bowey, Laurie, Billing’s, McAdam and Melksham and there’s enough depth if injuries don’t bite hard. As usual it all comes down to hitting September fit and ready. Early season wins are vital. 

[Go Ds 302]

Just remember that for better or worse it's not what any person says or any price offered all that matters ultimately is results. I'd rather King tip us last and we come first than the other way round.

[Go Ds 302]

14 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Our first game against Freo will give a strong indication of where we’re at. A win would do wonders for the team. A 10 goal loss would leave many questions as to our ability to win the GF. Personally I think we’ve got the goods to beat the other 16 teams. We showed late in the season we can match it with Brisbane. Freo play that hard running, fast transition game that we can struggle against. However if you look at our recruits, we’ve improved in that area. I’m really hoping Sharp can make the wing his own and allow us to play Windsor and McVee as 2 attacking half backs. We’ve then got Lindsay and Langford as 2 further midfield options, one who can go forward and one who can play back. If Sharp disappoints Lindsay can potentially play the wing role. These guys are all good kicks, Sharp to a lesser extent on that front. Our defence looks much stronger with Petty back and if Turner continues to improve our attack improves. 
You may think I’m optimistic about our ability to match Brisbane but they are beatable as their first 2 finals show, they’ve also lost Daniher which is a big loss. The smoky for mine is Johnson. If he or Jefferson can make the 3rd tall role their own then we’re right in it. I like Johnson for his potential to help Max. We need Max absolutely cherry ripe in September and I don’t believe he will be if he’s needed for big minutes throughout the season. Ideally he needs a quarter and a half on the pine and longer once games are won. Johnson needs to become the workhorse. 
I think we have less weaknesses than last year. Langford is an obvious Brayshaw replacement and potentially with a bigger upside forward of centre. If Petracca and Langford can rotate mid/forward and Rivers has another strong year then our midfield is automatically stronger and more dynamic. 
Throw in an improved Bowey, Laurie, Billing’s, McAdam and Melksham and there’s enough depth if injuries don’t bite hard. As usual it all comes down to hitting September fit and ready. Early season wins are vital. 

You're slightly right. But didn't Brisbane lose their first 3 games last year? And isn't the Freo game a practice match?