On 20/01/2025 at 05:44, Brenno said:

Neither of those lines contradict what I said. 

'draft for talent, trade for need' - Ok, but prioritize drafting Vic Talent whenever possible.... And by doing so are we not "managing" the chances of go home factor?

if you're prioritising a player because of their home location then you're not drafting for talent, you're recruiting in fear

chad wingard is a player who was clear in his recruitment chats that he didn't want to leave adelaide; as such gw$ didn't pick him and he 'slid' to port...yet still finished his career at hawthorn

under no circumstances would any club say 'we're only drafting local players' because of some notion that they may want to go home at some indeterminable point in the future

crom have made it clear that they want to bring players 'home' - so far they've targeted dawson, rankine, neal-bullen, lukosious (who preferred to go to the pear), and a bunch of others who have NOT gone home to sa (such as chandler from us)

they have continued to recruit vic players; they have had less strength in retaining them, unlike their cross-town rivals (who lost houston to a go-home call, and a significant pay bump)

  On 20/01/2025 at 03:23, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Correct. Look at Bailey Smith, Vic boy but he has still left the Doggies. You have to back in your club to create a fantastic environment so players want to stay. Won't work out every time, but if you are too scared to pick players because they grew up in another state then you have big issues as a club.

Hi DJ. Is it possible that Bailey Smith leaving was more about the Dogs having a no d-head policy rather than a bad culture? 

  On 20/01/2025 at 05:54, Brenno said:

Limiting the chances of players wanting to go home is not "being Insular" is called being pragmatic and objective as to  address an issue.  With all the talk of Kozzi wanting to go home I would be shocked if these discussions are not happening internally with the list management team at the club. 

If an interstate player wants to leave, who is still contracted, then the Club must be compensated with a decent trade. 
That’s business, you are saying we shouldn’t touch interstate players….

I am glad we picked Jackson, as he was pivotal in helping to win Flag 13

Trade Player Movement is a part of the modern game

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:12, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hi DJ. Is it possible that Bailey Smith leaving was more about the Dogs having a no d-head policy rather than a bad culture? 

I’ve got no idea tbh. Could’ve also been Bevo? He played him in strange positions for a guy like Smith

My original statement..... " I don't mean completely ignore them(interstate draftees), but we should be prioritizing Vic kids IMO" 

Your responses: 

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:17, Sir Why You Little said:

If an interstate player wants to leave, who is still contracted, then the Club must be compensated with a decent trade. 
That’s business, you are saying we shouldn’t touch interstate players….

I am glad we picked Jackson, as he was pivotal in helping to win Flag 13

Trade Player Movement is a part of the modern game

 

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:04, whatwhat say what said:

 

under no circumstances would any club say 'we're only drafting local players' because of some notion that they may want to go home at some indeterminable point in the future

 

 You are both wither intentionally straw manning me or both need to invest in a dictionary and look up the word PRIORITISE. Either way, I stand by my views on how we should approach our list management moving forward. 

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:29, Brenno said:

You are both wither intentionally straw manning me or both need to invest in a dictionary and look up the word PRIORITISE. Either way, I stand by my views on how we should approach our list management moving forward. 

not really

i think we're both saying you should always prioritise talent regardless of home locale

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:29, Brenno said:

My original statement..... " I don't mean completely ignore them(interstate draftees), but we should be prioritizing Vic kids IMO" 

Your responses: 

 

 You are both wither intentionally straw manning me or both need to invest in a dictionary and look up the word PRIORITISE. Either way, I stand by my views on how we should approach our list management moving forward. 

No you are scared to recruit the Best in the Land, because they might leave…

List Management should always be focused on getting the best talent available into the Club

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:12, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hi DJ. Is it possible that Bailey Smith leaving was more about the Dogs having a no d-head policy rather than a bad culture? 

I thought he left because he wanted more midfield minutes and wasn't getting it at the dogs and wasn't likely to with their midfield lineup and his [censored] kicking.

I think it’s certainly a factor and if two players can’t be spilt on talent and a number of other factors then it should come into play. 
For my money it’s probably about a 5% factor of the overall equation. If for arguments sake you had ranking system that equalled 100 points I’d say the come home factor is worth about 5 and if the player interviewed well and you thought it unlikely that he would request a trade home you might give him a 3 out of 5. So he would only be 2% below a local lad. 
If however he interviewed very poorly and made it obvious he wished to remain in his home state I would also probably mark him down in other areas. 

 

  On 20/01/2025 at 05:54, Brenno said:

Limiting the chances of players wanting to go home is not "being Insular" is called being pragmatic and objective as to  address an issue.  

But given only three drafteees have left because of the 'go home factor' in the last 10 years the evidence suggests it simply isn't an issue.

And you could argue we actually did very well out of Hogan, Jackson, and to a lesser extent nibbla, leaving to go home.

Trading Hogan got us May (do we win a flag without him?), Jackson mutiple first round draft picks and Nibbla sharp.

It koz goes to freo we will do very well in any deal because he is in contract - at least a couple of first rounders and/or players who meets our needs.

And if we were to prioritise vic boys in the draft, perhaps we dont have JVR, McVeee, Koz and Rivers at the club. That's nearly 20% of our starting 22.

So if the go home factor is not an issue we need to be concerned with, prioritising Victorian players in the draft isn't being pragmatic - it is the very definition of a solution looking for a problem.

The opposite of being pragmatic.

Edited January 20Jan 20 by binman

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:12, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hi DJ. Is it possible that Bailey Smith leaving was more about the Dogs having a no d-head policy rather than a bad culture? 

Crickey! They wouldn’t have a coach and would have to forfeit or play a few short.

  On 20/01/2025 at 05:54, Brenno said:

Limiting the chances of players wanting to go home is not "being Insular" is called being pragmatic and objective as to  address an issue.  With all the talk of Kozzi wanting to go home I would be shocked if these discussions are not happening internally with the list management team at the club. 

I somewhat agree Brenno. If there is a choice of player who the club have at equal or similar value, pick a Vic every time. Other factors come into consideration as well. 

We only have to look at our 2019 draft haul. LJ gone, Pickett will go (info from inside the club) and pick 8 gone (Serong) 

In retrospect, I would have Serong over both Pickett and LJ. 

Comparing Hogan with May is more of a blight on Freeo and the Suns. We just took advantage. 

GWS have a draft strategy and it works for them. 
 

  On 20/01/2025 at 04:22, binman said:

Agree.

And the reality is we haven't lost that many players in the last few years because they wanted to return to their home state.

Working backwards, nibbla, Jackson and maybe Hogan?

Am I missing someone?

If not, that's 3 in aprox 10 years. 

I reckon in that same period we've traded in more vic players from interstate sides than vice versa - langdon, Lever, sharp all immediately come to mind.

May Fullarton frost 

  On 30/08/2024 at 23:33, spirit of norm smith said:

Yes it does work both ways.

Good post SoNS.

Recruiting outside of Victoria has been very successful for us 

Especially the great Sean Wight and the superstar Jim Stynes.

God rest their wonderful souls.

Edited January 20Jan 20 by leave it to deever

  On 20/01/2025 at 08:37, binman said:

you could argue we actually did very well out of Hogan, Jackson, and to a lesser extent nibbla, leaving to go home.

Trading Hogan got us May (do we win a flag without him?), Jackson mutiple first round draft picks and Nibbla sharp.

Possibly not.

I'm happy to see the back of one of those players though 

We will however suffer from the absence of Anb.

And as much as I would love Captain Hogan back, May has has been well worth it and a Keystone to our whole team.

I just hope we can hold to Kozzie after his contract clicks over.

Is players leaving is always a risk but it's not really that common given the amount of them.

On the whole most posters here have been correct in stating that it's worked for our benefit than detract.

I've sometimes wondered why clubs haven't looked at USA basketballers for ruckmen and NFL for some defenders.

As an aside, I think our club has often been quite sympathetic and accommodating to players that have needed time off to go home on occasions.

Edited January 20Jan 20 by leave it to deever

  On 20/01/2025 at 22:11, leave it to deever said:

Possibly not.

I'm happy to see the back of one of those players though 

We will however suffer from the absence of Anb.

And as much as I would love Captain Hogan back, May has has been well worth it and a Keystone to our whole team.

I just hope we can hold to Kozzie after his contract clicks over.

Is players leaving is always a risk but it's not really that common given the amount of them.

On the whole most posters here have been correct in stating that it's worked for our benefit than detract.

I've sometimes wondered why clubs haven't looked at USA basketballers for ruckmen and NFL for some defenders.

As an aside, I think our club has often been quite sympathetic and accommodating to players that have needed time off to go home on occasions.

Because they would genuinely suck, and a big waste of club resources and time. Being tall and athletic with no footy IQ doesn't mean they'll make it as a AFL footballer

I hope the club has put a complete line in attempting to convert basketballers into try hard footballers. Hopefully we've seen the last of the Farris-Whites and Austin Bradke's of the world.. (no offence to them)

There are genuine ruckman and defenders hidden all over the country, we just have to find them.

Or if we want to go outside the box,  then go down the Irish route which our club started the very first experiment. 

  On 20/01/2025 at 23:08, dazzledavey36 said:

Because they would genuinely suck, and a big waste of club resources and time. Being tall and athletic with no footy IQ doesn't mean they'll make it as a AFL footballer

I hope the club has put a complete line in attempting to convert basketballers into try hard footballers. Hopefully we've seen the last of the Farris-Whites and Austin Bradke's of the world.. (no offence to them)

There are genuine ruckman and defenders hidden all over the country, we just have to find them.

Or if we want to go outside the box,  then go down the Irish route which our club started the very first experiment. 

Yet ironically many Afl players don't suck at basketball.

Outside of Irish footy , are there any codes that are compatible with ours?

Ice hockey or MMA may be worth investigating simply to have a few off their chain when we play Cwood .

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:17, Sir Why You Little said:

If an interstate player wants to leave, who is still contracted, then the Club must be compensated with a decent trade. 
That’s business, you are saying we shouldn’t touch interstate players….

I am glad we picked Jackson, as he was pivotal in helping to win Flag 13

Trade Player Movement is a part of the modern game

If we don't pick Jackson and Kozzie, we don't win that flag. 

It really is as simple as that. 

  On 20/01/2025 at 23:22, leave it to deever said:

Yet ironically many Afl players don't suck at basketball.

Outside of Irish footy , are there any codes that are compatible with ours?

Ice hockey or MMA may be worth investigating simply to have a few off their chain when we play Cwood .

Why the need to look at other codes for talent?

Losing Jackson was still a win, he enabled us to win a premiership and allowed us to draft Windsor + more. We should continue to draft high end talent, wherever it comes from, retain what we can and moneyball what moves out. 

  On 20/01/2025 at 23:22, leave it to deever said:

Yet ironically many Afl players don't suck at basketball.

Outside of Irish footy , are there any codes that are compatible with ours?

Ice hockey or MMA may be worth investigating simply to have a few off their chain when we play Cwood .

Tom Fullarton says everything you need to know about coming to footy later on in life with a basketball background.

You might get by in the body on body ruckwork but learning true footy sense and smarts is a big ask when you don't grow up with the sport. Not saying it can't happen but I've seen enough of the 200cm + basketballer come footballer for the moment.

  On 20/01/2025 at 23:55, dazzledavey36 said:

Why the need to look at other codes for talent?

Umm...gee I don't know .

Oh wait, maybe because it once landed us one of the best ruckmen in the comp.

 

  On 15/01/2025 at 22:22, Redleg said:

I was on the Board in 1985.

Farmer started with us in 1995 and Powell in 1997.

Thank you for that measured response.

  On 01/02/2025 at 02:31, redandbluemakepurple said:

Thank you for that measured response.

You are very welcome.

  On 20/01/2025 at 06:18, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I’ve got no idea tbh. Could’ve also been Bevo? He played him in strange positions for a guy like Smith

Losing A grade talent like Dunkley & Smith suggests to me that it might be a Bevo problem.