3 hours ago, DEE fence said:

With respect:

Bowey - lost confidence somewhere and started floating his kicks, making his kicking easier to defend for opposition (I do think he will recover) I felt that after he got a few knocks he was a little like Hunt post that major concussion he had.

Fritsch - much the same but he is much better defended by opposition - he needs help from the forward coach to make some space, he has looked good when used as a decoy.

Gawn = Goat

Langdon = 24 was better that 22+23

Lever = nothing has dropped

May = absolutely stoic the way he has worked through injuries.

McDonald = better season than the last 3 incl premiership year. We would have been massacred without him down back this year.

Trac was top 4 in coaches votes when injured

Petty = standards have not dropped but suffered under/returning from injury - confident about 25

Pickett =great improvement in discipline

Rivers = continued growth

Salem = thought he was getting better but off the boil again - really a shadow of 21 self. needs a big pre season, we are  adifferent side when he is playing well.

Spargo = lost year

Sparrow = happy for someone to argue why I got this wrong but wasn't happy with his season at all, ball watching, minimal contested possessions despite being built like a truck, should watch Butters highlights, if he chooses to carry that much weight he should use it as a weapon.

Viney = just friggin awesome, you can see the games he doesn't dominate are only because he's smashed up, elite still, couldn't be more proud.

Good summing up. Missed Oliver.

8 hours ago, Willmoy1947 said:

I think both of you, Dr G and Wayne,

have hit the issues on the head and all in all i don't think there is a lot of difference between the two of you..

All full of great and fair comments. I would just add without the Media input surely this could have surfaced and been resolved, a lot more inhouse, but don't ask me how other than a lot less confusion and purported entitlement by them.

Save for the fact that our best player was actively trying to leave the club, yes it could have been handled by the club…

Some of you are twisted around like pretzels right now; just straighten up and give in to the facts.

We have a bit of a work to do across the admin, FD, and playing group to get back to where we were.

16 hours ago, binman said:

That's a very long bow. 

….

And in regard to leaks, it is supposition not fact the club leaked.

I think it’s a very short bow.

It’s fact that both Damien Barrett and Tom Morris said the brand Petracca [censored] came from inside the club and not Tracc or his team. If that’s a lie then the club should sue them. 

It’s also fact that it was reported that Tracc told the leaders the problem was the players, and he told the players the problem was the leaders.  Was that made up, sourced from Tracc, or a leak?

In your opinion did ANBs manager leak ANBs announcement?

People stay with an organisation for a lot of reasons.  Law firms get a bad rap about toxic culture and misogyny.  But people still stay.  They have formed close friendships with some colleagues, get paid well, think things will improve, concerned things are no better elsewhere etc.

You’re welcome to your view about our culture.  I won’t be convinced all is well or that Tracc is the problem after the events of the last month.

8 hours ago, Skuit said:

Adam? This is not your language. 

Edit: guessing it's an error open to misinterpretation. 

haha broom...

9 hours ago, waynewussell said:

I respect your analysis on this... but there are holes. Paragraph 1) Our skipper agrees with some of Petracca's concerns, but there is no evidence that he thinks standards have dropped in the player group.

Paragraph 2) A reasonable appraisal of on field problems.

paragraph 3) Pert was here three years leading up to our premiership, hardly coming in on the back of the previous regime. Every premiership Cup is built on the back of decisions made before it was attained. Was Hocking's input at Geelong, winning the 2022 Premiership, diminished because he followed Cook?

Are you saying that Pert and Roffey contributed naught to our success in 2021? I didn't think so!

 

Fair points.

9 hours ago, binman said:

A couple of questions:

How do you know Stengle's incident is a one off?

Well run clubs keep things in house. The cats are a well run club.

What are the incidents at the dees over the last few years you are referring to?

Not rumours, not innuendo, but incidents comparable to Stengles that have been verified.

There is the js stuff.

Clarry going off the rails in the 2023 off season.

The entrecote dust up.

Am i missing any?

Entrecote, Clarry, JS - not sure what else I can say without getting into trouble with Andy @Demonland but there has been other stuff in the papers some linked to the SIA investigation, some linked to the ongoing court issues with the board, some allegations regarding Goodwin - some of the allegations regarding Goodwin relate to behaviour outside the club, some to his conduct with other staff and his stance on player welfare.

There is enough going on that you know where there is smoke there is fire. Again, I'm not that concerned about other clubs, I just want the MFC to get their [censored] together and gain the success we all crave.

Stengle's may not have been a one off, you're right it's only what is publicly known. But now we are dealing in supposition and by the same token I could argue there may be even more going on at MFC we haven't heard about.

The fact our best player and one of our senior leaders who takes his job as a pro athlete seriously had such grave concerns he wanted out is enough for me to say this has got to the point where it must be scrutinised and dealt with before the whole place implodes in on itself.

12 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Here’s one for those who are hoping to gain politically from jumping on the bandwagon of ‘Club in Crisis’. 1964 to 2021… you count the years, false dawns, messiahs and heartaches! We won a magnificent Premiership three years ago and yet, it has only taken three years for the borers to demand we obliterate anyone associated with bringing that Cup to us! I say the follow up was snuffed out on the field of play! I say the players own the so called failure. They know that. Let them fix it. That’s what good footballers do and we are blessed with good footballers, I believe in the young men who wear the red and blue. I keep our most successful coach in 60 years. I keep those around him who he wants and needs. I respect our current Board, CEO and Pres… I don’t accept ‘poor standards’ or ‘bad culture’ arguments, particularly from those with a political agenda or those in the media who live and die for clicks!

You’ll be surprised to know that my polestar in matters-MFC is Dr Don Duffy. Dr Don presided over our decline from the most dominant team in the history of the code (10 flags in 25 years) to the wilderness wanderers we became for decades. When others became innovative and proactive we became complacent and irrelevant. I don’t want that to happen again. I want a proper review of our operations.

If you’re not getting better, you’re going backwards. We could certainly get better, on recent evidence. 

12 hours ago, binman said:

That the club didn't do enough to put in boundaries and/or enforce them.

Not an unreasonable perspective in my opinion.

But that was then, this in now. Is Clarry going to be forever 'punished' for last year?  Is May going to be forever 'punished' for the Entrecote incident 2 years ago?  CP is just venting his spleen about anything and everything to soothe his massively bruised ego that he's not as hardcore as he thought he was, and that the team won games this year without him.  He's learnt the hard way that he's no indispensable, and shopping himself around for a giant trade before he can ever get his heartrate above 100 again is part of proving to himself (and everyone else) that he's still 'IT'.  Barring a persistent hand injury, Clarry has had an incident-free year.  If I recall, it was Clarry who did a pretty amazing team thing and travelled out to Kossie's home town with him and carried his nana up the dam, not CP.  It's not just about performance on the field, it's about what you contribute off the field too.  If CP can't acknowledge what positive improvements have been made this year, because he just wants the world to burn, then someone needs to sit him down and have a word.  

26 minutes ago, Dr Don Duffy said:

You’ll be surprised to know that my polestar in matters-MFC is Dr Don Duffy. Dr Don presided over our decline from the most dominant team in the history of the code (10 flags in 25 years) to the wilderness wanderers we became for decades. When others became innovative and proactive we became complacent and irrelevant. I don’t want that to happen again. I want a proper review of our operations.

If you’re not getting better, you’re going backwards. We could certainly get better, on recent evidence. 

Thanks for coming clean DDD! Let me get this right... A former president was the catalyst for us to become wilderness wanderers. Then a CEO in modern times steered us out of the wilderness to the Holy Grail... and now, just three years later, you want to slash and burn in order to stay out of the wilderness!

1 hour ago, Dr Don Duffy said:

You’ll be surprised to know that my polestar in matters-MFC is Dr Don Duffy. Dr Don presided over our decline from the most dominant team in the history of the code (10 flags in 25 years) to the wilderness wanderers we became for decades. When others became innovative and proactive we became complacent and irrelevant. I don’t want that to happen again. I want a proper review of our operations.

If you’re not getting better, you’re going backwards. We could certainly get better, on recent evidence. 

So if an external independent review finds that there only needs to be small changes to the board or Operations personnel i.e No one has to resign, will you throw your support behind the incumbents?

We need to see the back of trac. No way we can be successful next year with what has gone down.

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

We have a bit of a work to do across the admin, FD, and playing group to get back to where we were

Sure agree on that.  Every club that doesnt win the flag has work to do.

To have your 'marquee' player completely disgruntled with the club, I'm being polite, and to have your President state that she hasnt been in contact with the family for some time, leaves me absolutely perplexed.

And where has our head of football, Alan Richardson, been in all of this?

If it is not time for change then it is time for succession planning, and perhaps  handing over to a younger generation - I think Richo and Pert are closing in on 60, and if Steve Smith becomes pres next year he will be 69.  (and Mark Williams is 66 I think)

and dont ask me what I think about Tracca...

 

1 hour ago, Adina88 said:

But that was then, this in now. Is Clarry going to be forever 'punished' for last year?  Is May going to be forever 'punished' for the Entrecote incident 2 years ago?  CP is just venting his spleen about anything and everything to soothe his massively bruised ego that he's not as hardcore as he thought he was, and that the team won games this year without him.  He's learnt the hard way that he's no indispensable, and shopping himself around for a giant trade before he can ever get his heartrate above 100 again is part of proving to himself (and everyone else) that he's still 'IT'.  Barring a persistent hand injury, Clarry has had an incident-free year.  If I recall, it was Clarry who did a pretty amazing team thing and travelled out to Kossie's home town with him and carried his nana up the dam, not CP.  It's not just about performance on the field, it's about what you contribute off the field too.  If CP can't acknowledge what positive improvements have been made this year, because he just wants the world to burn, then someone needs to sit him down and have a word.  

Yes, i 100% agree. With all of your post. 

In fact i'd add that Clarry was exemplary this year. Of course his fitness was an issue but he tried his guts out week in, week out. I'd take that every day of the week over the inconsistency in effort of say Fritter. 

Mark my word, clarry will finish top 10 in the Bluey - ahead of a lot of players who whose fitness wasn't an issue.

I actually don't have an major issue with Tracc  its not how i would have handled things and think he ended up looking a pretty foolish.

But the whole 'our best player wants out is evidence of how bad things are at the club' is carrying an awful lot of water given HE IS STAYING!

If things were so bad and he really wanted out, and was prepared to go to any club we 100% would have done the deal.

In fact i would not be shocked if they might have been ok with that as my sense is that he has made himself an outlier.

And whilst his concerns no doubt have some validity i don't think they are such a big issue for his teammates, who actually seem very united (you only need to see the positive energy after out win over Gold Coast for evidence of that). 

2 hours ago, Adina88 said:

But that was then, this in now. Is Clarry going to be forever 'punished' for last year?  Is May going to be forever 'punished' for the Entrecote incident 2 years ago?  CP is just venting his spleen about anything and everything to soothe his massively bruised ego that he's not as hardcore as he thought he was, and that the team won games this year without him.  He's learnt the hard way that he's no indispensable, and shopping himself around for a giant trade before he can ever get his heartrate above 100 again is part of proving to himself (and everyone else) that he's still 'IT'.  Barring a persistent hand injury, Clarry has had an incident-free year.  If I recall, it was Clarry who did a pretty amazing team thing and travelled out to Kossie's home town with him and carried his nana up the dam, not CP.  It's not just about performance on the field, it's about what you contribute off the field too.  If CP can't acknowledge what positive improvements have been made this year, because he just wants the world to burn, then someone needs to sit him down and have a word.  

There is a whiff of 'first collision with adult vulnerability' to it all. Plus the nasty realisation that in Australian Football the teams are 4 times the size of basketball, you're individual importance is only 1/4 as much,  and even the very very best are only 1/4 better than the generally very good.

Now that the "crisis" is over, I believe the time is ripe for Christian to debut on his cooking channel a new dessert of his own creation, the Petracca Palaver. It appears robust but is surprisingly delicate, and whilst certainly sweet, leaves a mildly bitter taste in the mouth.

32 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

Now that the "crisis" is over, I believe the time is ripe for Christian to debut on his cooking channel a new dessert of his own creation, the Petracca Palaver. It appears robust but is surprisingly delicate, and whilst certainly sweet, leaves a mildly bitter taste in the mouth.

I think he needs to answer the perenial question "can a souffle rise twice?"

The Coleman medallist said his phone “went ham” with messages from family, friends and teammates during a chaotic 48 hours after his name first emerged in trade rumours.

“I think sometimes we need to have more awareness around throwing a name (around) hypothetically up and not understanding the collateral damage that has sometimes,” McKay said on the Ben and Harry podcast.

McKay’s manager David Trotter, quickly shut down a potential trade, while Petracca has since committed to the Demons.

The gun Blues forward shared a story of a young Carlton fan imploring him to stay at the club.

“I remember the next day, I was leaving the club and there was a young family – a mum and three daughters – were there and had their Carlton jumpers on,” McKay said.

“(They were) asking for a photo and an autograph. The young girl would have been six or seven, but when I was signing she was like, ‘are you getting swapped to Melbourne? Please don’t say you’re getting swapped to Melbourne’.”

McKay, who’s one of multiple potential Blues ins for their elimination final clash with Brisbane, said the support he received from Carlton people is a “really good sign of a really good culture”.

“Everyone at the club was awesome,” the 26-year old said.

“When key stakeholders and people are ringing me straight away, nearly having a laugh about it, saying like, ‘there’s no merit to anything. Mate, you’re super valued’. And it was nearly just we were having a bit of a laugh about it.

“It was really good from that point of view and I think the club was great.”

5 minutes ago, Demonland said:

The Coleman medallist said his phone “went ham” with messages from family, friends and teammates during a chaotic 48 hours after his name first emerged in trade rumours.

“I think sometimes we need to have more awareness around throwing a name (around) hypothetically up and not understanding the collateral damage that has sometimes,” McKay said on the Ben and Harry podcast.

McKay’s manager David Trotter, quickly shut down a potential trade, while Petracca has since committed to the Demons.

The gun Blues forward shared a story of a young Carlton fan imploring him to stay at the club.

“I remember the next day, I was leaving the club and there was a young family – a mum and three daughters – were there and had their Carlton jumpers on,” McKay said.

“(They were) asking for a photo and an autograph. The young girl would have been six or seven, but when I was signing she was like, ‘are you getting swapped to Melbourne? Please don’t say you’re getting swapped to Melbourne’.”

McKay, who’s one of multiple potential Blues ins for their elimination final clash with Brisbane, said the support he received from Carlton people is a “really good sign of a really good culture”.

“Everyone at the club was awesome,” the 26-year old said.

“When key stakeholders and people are ringing me straight away, nearly having a laugh about it, saying like, ‘there’s no merit to anything. Mate, you’re super valued’. And it was nearly just we were having a bit of a laugh about it.

“It was really good from that point of view and I think the club was great.”

Someone needs to be accountable for this? Was it McClure? Or did the Blies test the waters through him? 

Being the "Collateral damage" of trade speculation?

Give me a spell.

7 minutes ago, Sir Windsor said:

Someone needs to be accountable for this? Was it McClure? Or did the Blies test the waters through him? 

or was someone else with urgent motivation to construct a deal?

17 minutes ago, Winners at last said:

I think he needs to answer the perenial question "can a souffle rise twice?"

and whether a scrabbled egg can be unscrambled

3 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Thanks for coming clean DDD! Let me get this right... A former president was the catalyst for us to become wilderness wanderers. Then a CEO in modern times steered us out of the wilderness to the Holy Grail... and now, just three years later, you want to slash and burn in order to stay out of the wilderness!

“Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance.” 

27 minutes ago, demoniac said:

or was someone else with urgent motivation to construct a deal?

Surely you are not suggesting the Trac camp? I mean McClure has to have some integrity. 😂

17 hours ago, Adam The God said:

It might be avoided altogether if we get our broom out and sweep out the board room. At least those expected to feature.

Are you Hawk the Demon renamed?

2 hours ago, Sir Windsor said:

Someone needs to be accountable for this? Was it McClure? Or did the Blies test the waters through him? 

McClure supports Carlton and ALWAYS finds a way to crowbar them into any trade conversation at around this time of year.

His 'analysis' of the CP/McKay situation before running with his little thought bubble would have been no more involved than...

• CP wants to go to a big club  🤔
• Carlton are a big club! 💡
   
• Melbourne needs a big KP forward  🤔
• OMG, Carlton has a few of those!💡
  
  

Edited September 5, 2024Sep 5 by JTR

2 hours ago, He de mon said:

So if an external independent review finds that there only needs to be small changes to the board or Operations personnel i.e No one has to resign, will you throw your support behind the incumbents?

What I can say, Hdm,  is that I will continue to support our club, as I have since I can remember as a 5yo. Boards and senior management come and go, and we have to hold them to account as we do the FD and the players who represent our beloved team. 

Your opening proposition is a little difficult to answer as a hypothetical as I would be surprised if a proper review didn’t recommend personnel change.