20 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Of course, list management isn't the only reason for our current predicament. Injuries have played their role. But I feel the problem with the position you take on here is that you put injuries as the far and away biggest determinant/factor, almost to the point of disregarding other factors. Obviously no Trac/Gus and Oliver/Viney/Gawn injured/unfit makes us worse, but Collingwood are closer to finals than we are and have had a much worse spate of injuries this year than we have.

I agree, and maybe because they are in their window and we haven’t been this year but the Pies reacted to midfield injuries by signing Sullivan and Bytel over summer and Long (from their vfl team) in the mid season draft.

Even if there wasn’t more to be done with JJ and Bedford to get them to stay we’ve been down on personnel all year and only added a kid tall forward fresh out of the WAFL reserves.

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I agree, and maybe because they are in their window and we haven’t been this year but the Pies reacted to midfield injuries by signing Sullivan and Bytel over summer and Long (from their vfl team) in the mid season draft.

Even if there wasn’t more to be done with JJ and Bedford to get them to stay we’ve been down on personnel all year and only added a kid tall forward fresh out of the WAFL reserves.

I’d say the Pies will finish outside the 8 with us and their list profile is worse than ours. 

Edited August 3, 2024Aug 3 by Roost it far

37 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

I will admit I must have have not seen it, so apologies but people saying Gus was a main reason is wrong.

Gus‘s loss (ppl will come for me) I think was more leadership on/off. He was solid in a game day sense, reliable, but seldomly shot the lights out.  it’s definitely a factor , but not a major one. 

4 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Gus‘s loss (ppl will come for me) I think was more leadership on/off. He was solid in a game day sense, reliable, but seldomly shot the lights out.  it’s definitely a factor , but not a major one. 

In 2023 he was 4th in the B&F and won the Leadership award.

The players touch his helmet before every match. Huge out in terms of what he brought off-field and on.

Go through the coaches of the better sides this year:

1. Longmire's just "coached" Sydney to a 112 point loss. In consecutive weeks they've kicked a total of 12 goals, 3 of which came in the last 10 minutes of junk time last week. This from a side with about two best 22 players missing and with the so-called unbeatable midfield of Heeney, Warner and Gulden. Just one flag, none for 12 years.
2. Fagan's had his side up for 6 seasons now without a flag. Even if he wins it this year, that's no more than Goodwin
3. Longmuir is unproven and has only made the finals once so far
4. Hinkley was booed off his home ground five weeks ago and has had the job for 10 years without even a GF appearance, let alone a flag
5. Chris Scott has two flags, but it took him 11 years to get the second one, despite having a list with Hawkins, Selwood, Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart etc. on it
6. Beveridge is 8 years post his flag without a second one, despite a list with the game's best player on it and a midfield that bats deeper than anyone's. Missed the finals last year, and when they're struggling resorts to pot-shots in the media and dropping players out of nowhere
7. Voss is struggling to even qualify for finals (was in the bottom 4 until two-thirds of the way into 2023 and hasn't quite got there yet in 2024) despite having Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, Mackay and Weitering
8. McRae is still odds on to miss finals the year after his flag
9. Mitchell is discussed in some circles as the second coming of Leigh Matthews but hasn't actually achieved anything yet
10. Kingsley is like Mitchell except with one prelim appearance
11. Hardwick is a great but has taken GC and cannot get them to win a game away from home, despite what I believe has been a relatively smooth run with injury this year

Goodwin has a flag and, unless Collingwood pulls off something extraordinary from here, will be the only one of the last four premiership coaches to get his side back into the finals the following year.

24 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Gus‘s loss (ppl will come for me) I think was more leadership on/off. He was solid in a game day sense, reliable, but seldomly shot the lights out.  it’s definitely a factor , but not a major one. 

No agree with you on your thoughts but there comes a time when other players have to step up and that is the coaches role pure and simple.

I just think it's great how so many people now bemoan the loss of Gus after this time last year his worth to the team was line-ball with so many here. The same thing happened when Melksham went from being in and out of the side to 'so crucial' for our forward line after the ACL. 

It's natural to look for scapegoats as the reason for our downfall and a lot of the injuries this year are valid reasons for it, but my god in 2023 we played without our then best ball winner for half a season, star ruckman out for a 5 week chunk, hardly ever a key forward, Petty in and out every two weeks then the lisfranc and finished top 4. The difference between last year and this was not night and day. This attitude that we just need to get players back and keep them healthy looks at just one facet of the issues we face. 

6 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Ok so who do you think could come in and give us that whole new game plan and rejuvenate our list? Simpson? Should we take a risk on an untried assistant? 
 

By the way, what game plan do you think suits our strengths? Because our strengths up until this season have been contest and defense, and that game plan got us a flag and two top 4 finishes, where we all agree we got very unlucky last year to not go further. 
 

By the way, why is McRae not under fire? Pies won a flag and won’t even make finals the following year. How’s Fagan going? So many top 4 finishes and zero flags.

It is always easier to think the grass is greener elsewhere. Sometimes it is, but a lot of the time it’s just a knee jerk reaction to a disappointing result. As long as Goodwin has the ear of the players and their support, and I have not seen anyone prove otherwise, everything else can be fixed.
Strategy, game plan, fitness, list management etc is easier to change than finding a new coach and hoping he will have the same support that Goody currently has from our players. I will bet my bottom dollar that a large chunk of our list would be very very unhappy if Goody left. I don’t think any of them believe he is the reason that we are where we are.

You do know Goodys time will eventually come and yes we'll have to look for a coach. So the talk isn't exactly crazy as you think. Like most have said, he won't be sacked at all anytime soon.

You've named Simpson even though I just said that are untried assistant coaches out there like an Adam Kingsley or a Craig McRea who could come in a rejuvenate a playing list exactly like these guys have. 

Our game has been contest and defence which since 2021 has not gotten us anyway. Forget too 4 finishes. You mean absolutely nothing if you're literally not winning at September and then about to miss finals purely because we've been heavily focused on this whole contest defence where Goody has not shown to actually find the balance.

The game has completely changed since 2021. It is more of an attacking style that teams are running with that focuses on being able to drive offence first but also defend hard when need to. 

Look at teams like GWS, Freo, Hawthorn and now the doggies and then Collingwood last year. This is the new game style where quick ball movement is crucial in being able to piece through a defensive back 6 by attacking in waves.

We absolutely have the list built for this, unfortunately our coaching department are too stubborn to change and now it's cost us 3 years in a row.

 

Edited August 3, 2024Aug 3 by dazzledavey36

3 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

What else can they say ? They ain’t going to pot him publically.

 

Im sure they do - but they can still be against his coaching and game plan

Exactly..

And of course a nuffy supporter is going to say every single player loves the coach. She'll hear what she wants to hear and certainly wont get the full truth in how it all works behind the scenes.

This whole narrative that every single player loves the coach is so far wrong.

You ask any AFL player going around and everyone of them will say that there are players in every club that either won't like the coach or have grown stale because they've been there too long sprouting the same [censored] each and every time.

You then get your ones where they can be quiet disgruntled especially when it comes to team selection etc.

You think Tommy Fullarton is loving Simon Goodwin after copping it the other week?  You think guys like Bailey Laurie and Adam Tomlinson are loving Goody of late every time they are brought into the side and then dropped the following week??

[censored] laughable to think that there aren’t current players that have lost faith and trust in Goodwin as we speak.

Happens at every single club.

 

One thing is for sure, it’s making me jolly cross seeing us below 8th. 

Agree, we should try to get Nathan Buckley, if not Buckley then bring in a young gun, like McQualter or Ash Hansen, but Goodwin has to go, he should do the right thing and quit!

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Go through the coaches of the better sides this year:

1. Longmire's just "coached" Sydney to a 112 point loss. In consecutive weeks they've kicked a total of 12 goals, 3 of which came in the last 10 minutes of junk time last week. This from a side with about two best 22 players missing and with the so-called unbeatable midfield of Heeney, Warner and Gulden. Just one flag, none for 12 years.
2. Fagan's had his side up for 6 seasons now without a flag. Even if he wins it this year, that's no more than Goodwin
3. Longmuir is unproven and has only made the finals once so far
4. Hinkley was booed off his home ground five weeks ago and has had the job for 10 years without even a GF appearance, let alone a flag
5. Chris Scott has two flags, but it took him 11 years to get the second one, despite having a list with Hawkins, Selwood, Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart etc. on it
6. Beveridge is 8 years post his flag without a second one, despite a list with the game's best player on it and a midfield that bats deeper than anyone's. Missed the finals last year, and when they're struggling resorts to pot-shots in the media and dropping players out of nowhere
7. Voss is struggling to even qualify for finals (was in the bottom 4 until two-thirds of the way into 2023 and hasn't quite got there yet in 2024) despite having Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, Mackay and Weitering
8. McRae is still odds on to miss finals the year after his flag
9. Mitchell is discussed in some circles as the second coming of Leigh Matthews but hasn't actually achieved anything yet
10. Kingsley is like Mitchell except with one prelim appearance
11. Hardwick is a great but has taken GC and cannot get them to win a game away from home, despite what I believe has been a relatively smooth run with injury this year

Goodwin has a flag and, unless Collingwood pulls off something extraordinary from here, will be the only one of the last four premiership coaches to get his side back into the finals the following year.

Well researched

12 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

The love that JJ gets from some posters on DLand makes me wonder about myself : was I watching a potential Brownlow medallist and not knowing it?

Actually, no I wasn't.

As for Tomlinson: he got a chance and took it. What's wrong with that? Then injury cruelled him. He always tries.

 

That love wasn't there when he was with us, it would be interesting to go back and see all who bagged him for a couple of seasons and now think he is an A grade midfielder, my money would be that they are one and the same.

Same goes with Melksham with plenty posting he is only getting because he is a mate of Goodwin's or he has photo's of Goodwin and now covering him with love, I checked on that one,  just goes to show there are plenty of hypocrites on this site.

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You do know Goodys time will eventually come and yes we'll have to look for a coach. So the talk isn't exactly crazy as you think. Like most have said, he won't be sacked at all anytime soon.

You've named Simpson even though I just said that are untried assistant coaches out there like an Adam Kingsley or a Craig McRea who could come in a rejuvenate a playing list exactly like these guys have. 

Our game has been contest and defence which since 2021 has not gotten us anyway. Forget too 4 finishes. You mean absolutely nothing if you're literally not winning at September and then about to miss finals purely because we've been heavily focused on this whole contest defence where Goody has not shown to actually find the balance.

The game has completely changed since 2021. It is more of an attacking style that teams are running with that focuses on being able to drive offence first but also defend hard when need to. 

Look at teams like GWS, Freo, Hawthorn and now the doggies and then Collingwood last year. This is the new game style where quick ball movement is crucial in being able to piece through a defensive back 6 by attacking in waves.

We absolutely have the list built for this, unfortunately our coaching department are too stubborn to change and now it's cost us 3 years in a row.

 

Agree with what you have said except the list part, we have players who lack kicking skills, decision making skills, players who panic with the ball under pressure and are one paced.

I will also say this, after watching Friday nights game there is a big huge difference between the Bont and Oliver I just hope Oliver has not reached the ceiling with his game.

Never understand why Brayshaw was moved away from the wing after winning the flag, replacing him with Hunter a has been who the Dogs were rapt to see him go, lots of off the field issues & our due diligence was poor  instead of investing in JJ

A few people here have an extremely unhealthy emotional attachment to this footy club. Get help. 

12 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Agree with what you have said except the list part, we have players who lack kicking skills, decision making skills, players who panic with the ball under pressure and are one paced.

I will also say this, after watching Friday nights game there is a big huge difference between the Bont and Oliver I just hope Oliver has not reached the ceiling with his game.

Simply no comparison at all.

Watching Bont on Friday night and then for this year it's ridiculous how good this guy is.

14 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

They also get gifted top draft picks with their academy…. But let’s not present a balanced argument 

Agree we got shafted on academy pics as we selected heeny & mills but swans matched .. rules changed and we got shafted on Mac Andrews! We also gifted then Grundy & JJ 

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Simply no comparison at all.

Watching Bont on Friday night and then for this year it's ridiculous how good this guy is.

I dunno, for me,  Bont doesnt seem to stand up in finals when it counts... he is the Thierry Henri of AFL...

Edited August 3, 2024Aug 3 by Engorged Onion

3 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Agree we got shafted on academy pics as we selected heeny & mills but swans matched .. rules changed and we got shafted on Mac Andrews! We also gifted then Grundy & JJ 

And they just lost by 112 points… time for horse to go

2 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I dunno, for me,  Bont doesnt seem to stand up in finals when it counts... he is the Thierry Henri of AFL...

Not sure if serious or not..?

He had the Norm Smith wrapped up in 2021 when he kicked his 3rd goal to put them up 19 points.

He single handedly carried that team on the night until we went on our run.

His last final which was an elimination final in 2022 he had 30 disposals and 2 goals.

Go watch the doggies 2016 finals series and he was one of their best rated players during their finals run.

He performs in big games and it shows.

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Not sure if serious or not..?

He had the Norm Smith wrapped up in 2021 when he kicked his 3rd goal to put them up 19 points.

He single handedly carried that team on the night until we went on our run.

His last final which was an elimination final in 2022 he had 30 disposals and 2 goals.

Go watch the doggies 2016 finals series and he was one of their best rated players during their finals run.

He performs in big games and it shows.

Mostly sarcastic...

14 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Mostly sarcastic...

You got me.

Best thing about Bont is he does it every single week

58 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

That love wasn't there when he was with us, it would be interesting to go back and see all who bagged him for a couple of seasons and now think he is an A grade midfielder, my money would be that they are one and the same.

Same goes with Melksham with plenty posting he is only getting because he is a mate of Goodwin's or he has photo's of Goodwin and now covering him with love, I checked on that one,  just goes to show there are plenty of hypocrites on this site.

I was fine with JJ leaving.  He's going alright in a good system, that's all