Oscar Allan

[Demon Disciple 12,453]

13 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The same article mentions Tom De Konig... (now there's a sought after player)

Doubt TDK would ever contemplate leaving the Baggers, but he is exactly what we need whilst we still have a fit Gawn.

A ruck, who is none too shabby up forward 🤩

[BLWNBA 1,444]

43 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Doubt TDK would ever contemplate leaving the Baggers, but he is exactly what we need whilst we still have a fit Gawn.

A ruck, who is none too shabby up forward 🤩

I think there's every chance that there could be a bit of a 'watch this space' on TDK...

[DistrACTION Jackson 10,243]

14 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Restricted Free Agent... Whatever anyone offers will be matched

Eagles have to spend their money somewhere

May be up for a trade if a club offers a seven plus year deal at big dollars

The same article mentions Tom De Konig... (now there's a sought after player)

I'm not so sure they would match if he really wanted to go.

If the Eagles finish bottom 3-4 they would net them two picks inside the top 5, which they desperately need.

They are miles off at the moment, especially considering their best players last year were Jeremy McGovern (33 in April) and Elliott Yeo (31).

[58er 6,819]

4 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Didn't one of our over in Perth once say he had a dicky knee?

Stop spreading rubbish

[furious d 472]

15 minutes ago, 58er said:

Stop spreading rubbish

Don’t know how to link but according to an article late last year on SEN he was told by a specialist that his knee has degenerated to resemble the knee of a 35-40 year old. 

[whatwhat say what 23,468]

3 minutes ago, furious d said:

Don’t know how to link but according to an article late last year on SEN he was told by a specialist that his knee has degenerated to resemble the knee of a 35-40 year old. 

here you go: https://sen.com.au/news/2024/11/21/his-knee-has-degenerated-worrying-health-reports-emerge-about-eagles-skipper

[Pennant St Dee 13,406]

Repeated several times buyer beware, the knees are not good.

[58er 6,819]

7 minutes ago, furious d said:

Don’t know how to link but according to an article late last year on SEN he was told by a specialist that his knee has degenerated to resemble the knee of a 35-40 year old. 

He could still mark OK last season

[binman 44,558]

On 28/01/2025 at 18:57, Roost it far said:

So you wouldn’t put Allan in the team because of Turner…..Right, got it 🤦‍♂️

C’mon Binman, you know that we know that everyone knows that he’s well worth the conversation. 

Without inviting a back and forth, a pet hate of mine is my comments being deliberately misconstrued.

I did not say I would not want Allan because we have Turner. 

I said with 'JVR and Turner we are ok for key forwards I reckon'.

Big difference.

Demonland has been been terrific of late, in large part because the sniping has massively reduced, there is less silly back and forth and fewer straw man arguments. 

This had meant much more respectful dialogue and more nuanced discussions, which personally I've really enjoyed. The tenor has been really positive.

So in that spirit, allow me to explain why I think we dont need Allan.

Whilst surplus to requirements was a throw away comment by me, even if available, in my opinion Allan should not be, and almost certainly wouldn’t be, a priority target.

Don't get me wrong, Allan is a jet. I've really liked him since he first started playing.

But, irrespective of our struggles up forward (the cause of which I think is mostly about delivery and not being quick enough on transition), we are well covered for key position forwards.

I think JVR will prove to be as good, if not better than Allan. He is seriously underated I think, even by dees fans. His numbers stack up to the very best key forwards at the same stage in the modern era, including Allan. 

I think Turner has massive upside and predict he will have the classic break out year this season.

We have two genuine swing men who can play as key forwards in Petty and Tmac (who was our leading goal scorer in 2018).

And whilst he has yet to play a game the club clearly think Jefferson can make the grade as a key forward.

And we drafted, albeit with a lowly draft pick, AJ - who they  hope will make the grade as key forward who can give maxy a chop out.

On top of that we have three medium talls who will all play up forward at times, and all play tall, in fritter (our leading goal scorer for the last 5 seasons), Tracc (our leading goal scorer in 2019) and Langford (191cms now, and will likely get taller still).

I made all the same points prior to the draft, correctly predicting we would target a big mid with elite kicking skills and an outside mid/wing/hb with elite kicking skills (ideally a lefitie).

If a key forward was a priority for the club they would have targeted one in the trade period, and failing that (there weren't really any available) use one of our first round draft picks to draft a key forward.

But they didn't.

Because whilst a gun key forward might have been on some fans wish lists, it was clearly not a priority for goody and the FD. 

Trading in Allan makes zero sense (unless say as a straight swap for JVR) as it doesn’t meet a need (not to mention the fact we would have to pay him top dollar, causing issues with our TPP).

In my opinion, our priority in both next year's trade and draft periods will remain mid size runners who are elite ball users because that sort of player remains our key need. 

Edited January 29 by binman

[Adam The God 30,617]

11 hours ago, BLWNBA said:

I think there's every chance that there could be a bit of a 'watch this space' on TDK...

With us?

[Demon Disciple 12,453]

11 hours ago, furious d said:

Don’t know how to link but according to an article late last year on SEN he was told by a specialist that his knee has degenerated to resemble the knee of a 35-40 year old. 

I’m 37 and reckon my knees are in great shape. My back on the other hand…………

[Ethan Tremblay 31,243]

15 hours ago, 58er said:

He could still mark OK last season

Not the knees in his legs are dodgy, not the knees in his hands. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,477]

10 hours ago, Adam The God said:

With us?

Would love that to be the case.

[The Jackson FIX 3,376]

21 hours ago, furious d said:

Don’t know how to link but according to an article late last year on SEN he was told by a specialist that his knee has degenerated to resemble the knee of a 35-40 year old. 

Upside is we get a pensioner discount 

[Roost it far 9,624]

12 hours ago, binman said:

Without inviting a back and forth, a pet hate of mine is my comments being deliberately misconstrued.

I did not say I would not want Allan because we have Turner. 

I said with 'JVR and Turner we are ok for key forwards I reckon'.

Big difference.

Demonland has been been terrific of late, in large part because the sniping has massively reduced, there is less silly back and forth and fewer straw man arguments. 

This had meant much more respectful dialogue and more nuanced discussions, which personally I've really enjoyed. The tenor has been really positive.

So in that spirit, allow me to explain why I think we dont need Allan.

Whilst surplus to requirements was a throw away comment by me, even if available, in my opinion Allan should not be, and almost certainly wouldn’t be, a priority target.

Don't get me wrong, Allan is a jet. I've really liked him since he first started playing.

But, irrespective of our struggles up forward (the cause of which I think is mostly about delivery and not being quick enough on transition), we are well covered for key position forwards.

I think JVR will prove to be as good, if not better than Allan. He is seriously underated I think, even by dees fans. His numbers stack up to the very best key forwards at the same stage in the modern era, including Allan. 

I think Turner has massive upside and predict he will have the classic break out year this season.

We have two genuine swing men who can play as key forwards in Petty and Tmac (who was our leading goal scorer in 2018).

And whilst he has yet to play a game the club clearly think Jefferson can make the grade as a key forward.

And we drafted, albeit with a lowly draft pick, AJ - who they  hope will make the grade as key forward who can give maxy a chop out.

On top of that we have three medium talls who will all play up forward at times, and all play tall, in fritter (our leading goal scorer for the last 5 seasons), Tracc (our leading goal scorer in 2019) and Langford (191cms now, and will likely get taller still).

I made all the same points prior to the draft, correctly predicting we would target a big mid with elite kicking skills and an outside mid/wing/hb with elite kicking skills (ideally a lefitie).

If a key forward was a priority for the club they would have targeted one in the trade period, and failing that (there weren't really any available) use one of our first round draft picks to draft a key forward.

But they didn't.

Because whilst a gun key forward might have been on some fans wish lists, it was clearly not a priority for goody and the FD. 

Trading in Allan makes zero sense (unless say as a straight swap for JVR) as it doesn’t meet a need (not to mention the fact we would have to pay him top dollar, causing issues with our TPP).

In my opinion, our priority in both next year's trade and draft periods will remain mid size runners who are elite ball users because that sort of player remains our key need. 

Firstly I think I was very careful not to snipe, even adding humour to my reply, which even made me laugh but laughing at my own jokes has long been a habit. I’d  take Allan as I’d take any A grader for any key position. The best players make the team better. I agree regarding JVR as I also see him becoming a top liner. 
Key position players are the hardest to come by, always have been. Allan is  a 75 + a year goal kicker and I just can’t see how he wouldn’t make us a better team. I’m also looking around for a May replacement and there’s a couple running around for GC and GWS who surely want to play for a real club.

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,558]

13 hours ago, binman said:

Without inviting a back and forth, a pet hate of mine is my comments being deliberately misconstrued.

I did not say I would not want Allan because we have Turner. 

I said with 'JVR and Turner we are ok for key forwards I reckon'.

Big difference.

Demonland has been been terrific of late, in large part because the sniping has massively reduced, there is less silly back and forth and fewer straw man arguments. 

This had meant much more respectful dialogue and more nuanced discussions, which personally I've really enjoyed. The tenor has been really positive.

So in that spirit, allow me to explain why I think we dont need Allan.

Whilst surplus to requirements was a throw away comment by me, even if available, in my opinion Allan should not be, and almost certainly wouldn’t be, a priority target.

Don't get me wrong, Allan is a jet. I've really liked him since he first started playing.

But, irrespective of our struggles up forward (the cause of which I think is mostly about delivery and not being quick enough on transition), we are well covered for key position forwards.

I think JVR will prove to be as good, if not better than Allan. He is seriously underated I think, even by dees fans. His numbers stack up to the very best key forwards at the same stage in the modern era, including Allan. 

I think Turner has massive upside and predict he will have the classic break out year this season.

We have two genuine swing men who can play as key forwards in Petty and Tmac (who was our leading goal scorer in 2018).

And whilst he has yet to play a game the club clearly think Jefferson can make the grade as a key forward.

And we drafted, albeit with a lowly draft pick, AJ - who they  hope will make the grade as key forward who can give maxy a chop out.

On top of that we have three medium talls who will all play up forward at times, and all play tall, in fritter (our leading goal scorer for the last 5 seasons), Tracc (our leading goal scorer in 2019) and Langford (191cms now, and will likely get taller still).

I made all the same points prior to the draft, correctly predicting we would target a big mid with elite kicking skills and an outside mid/wing/hb with elite kicking skills (ideally a lefitie).

If a key forward was a priority for the club they would have targeted one in the trade period, and failing that (there weren't really any available) use one of our first round draft picks to draft a key forward.

But they didn't.

Because whilst a gun key forward might have been on some fans wish lists, it was clearly not a priority for goody and the FD. 

Trading in Allan makes zero sense (unless say as a straight swap for JVR) as it doesn’t meet a need (not to mention the fact we would have to pay him top dollar, causing issues with our TPP).

In my opinion, our priority in both next year's trade and draft periods will remain mid size runners who are elite ball users because that sort of player remains our key need. 

Agree with all of this mate. 

Turner will have a much bigger year, had a solid 2024, and a much improved one fitness wise. Big 2025 on the cards. 

JVR is a deadset jet. He has had to deal with being thrown around due to our rucking issues, but he is tracking so nicely. I bet 17 other sides would snap him up in a heartbeat. With ruck settled this year and positioning in general improved, I reckon he will kick 40-50. 

(Also appreciating the more positive vibes - even though I am only now slowly coming out of my usual 'holiday' from the site haha)

100% we need fast, smart elite ball users. We have the forward stocks. It's actually a really hard to matchup forward line. It's dynamic and unpredictable. JVR, Turner, Fritter (!!), Trac, Kozzie, Melk (!!), and as you say still have a few swingmen who CAN kick goals.

If we can get our ball movement sorted, lowering the eyes, smart ball use etc, watch out!

I think we will.

[binman 44,558]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

Firstly I think I was very careful not to snipe, even adding humour to my reply, which even made me laugh but laughing at my own jokes has long been a habit. I’d  take Allan as I’d take any A grader for any key position. The best players make the team better. I agree regarding JVR as I also see him becoming a top liner. 
Key position players are the hardest to come by, always have been. Allan is  a 75 + a year goal kicker and I just can’t see how he wouldn’t make us a better team. I’m also looking around for a May replacement and there’s a couple running around for GC and GWS who surely want to play for a real 

All good, I didn't think you were sniping. 

Assumimg he plays to his previous level, Allan might make us better - might being the operative word.

It's not really possible to be categoric about it, particularly 12 months our of any possible trade, as we don't know what the opportunity cost would be if invested in Allan.

For example, if we traded in Allan perhaps it means Jefferson can't get senior minutes, or JVR who is currently our number one key forward doesn't play aa well with Allan in the team.

Other opportunity cost questions I'd we traded in Allan include:

- Who would we have to give up in any trade

- who would we not be able to trade in (ie who might we miss out on?- perhaps another gun who better meets our needs, a Serong or Brayshaw for example)

- what would the impact be on TPP and our ability to meet the contract demands of our young guns like (particularly relevant with tassie on the horizon)

We saw an example of some of those opportunity costs (and others) when we traded in an A grader in Grundy. 

Whilst not a key position player, his example is relevant because the initial idea was Grundy and Maxy woukd share the ruck role.

That didn't work, in part because it didn't fill a need. Our need was a key forward who could give maxy a chop out (the role they have AJ pencilled in for) not another number one ruck.

There's also another interesting piece of the puzzle as it relates to key position players.

One of the most notable things about last year's draft is how few genuine key position players were drafted in the first two rounds. The focus for most clubs was mid size runners with good skills.

Several key forwards and defenders went way later than predicted, perhaps suggesting that such players are not as important for clubs the way the game is played at the moment (ie fast ball movement and focus on transition).

Which is not say key position players are not important, just that when a club has a surfeit of such players they are less likely to chase new ones.

Allan to the Lions makes sense because they don't have a surfeit of talls.

But as evidence of the reduced focus on talls, even then they used their second pick (25 - they were always going to use their first pick on Ashcroft) to select a mid (Sam Marshall). And like the dees, only selected a tall with their last pick - Ty Gallop described in one post draft analysis as 'a project tall forward with time to grow'.

[Roost it far 9,624]

20 minutes ago, binman said:

All good, I didn't think you were sniping. 

Assumimg he plays to his previous level, Allan might make us better - might being the operative word.

It's not really possible to be categoric about it, particularly 12 months our of any possible trade, as we don't know what the opportunity cost would be if invested in Allan.

For example, if we traded in Allan perhaps it means Jefferson can't get senior minutes, or JVR who is currently our number one key forward doesn't play aa well with Allan in the team.

Other opportunity cost questions I'd we traded in Allan include:

- Who would we have to give up in any trade

- who would we not be able to trade in (ie who might we miss out on?- perhaps another gun who better meets our needs, a Serong or Brayshaw for example)

- what would the impact be on TPP and our ability to meet the contract demands of our young guns like (particularly relevant with tassie on the horizon)

We saw an example of some of those opportunity costs (and others) when we traded in an A grader in Grundy. 

Whilst not a key position player, his example is relevant because the initial idea was Grundy and Maxy woukd share the ruck role.

That didn't work, in part because it didn't fill a need. Our need was a key forward who could give maxy a chop out (the role they have AJ pencilled in for) not another number one ruck.

There's also another interesting piece of the puzzle as it relates to key position players.

One of the most notable things about last year's draft is how few genuine key position players were drafted in the first two rounds. The focus for most clubs was mid size runners with good skills.

Several key forwards and defenders went way later than predicted, perhaps suggesting that such players are not as important for clubs the way the game is played at the moment (ie fast ball movement and focus on transition).

Which is not say key position players are not important, just that when a club has a surfeit of such players they are less likely to chase new ones.

Allan to the Lions makes sense because they don't have a surfeit of talls.

But as evidence of the reduced focus on talls, even then they used their second pick (25 - they were always going to use their first pick on Ashcroft) to select a mid (Sam Marshall). And like the dees, only selected a tall with their last pick - Ty Gallop described in one post draft analysis as 'a project tall forward with time to grow'.

I think the reason clubs tend to go mids first is that the best first round mids are often plug and play whereas key position players tend to take 3-5 seasons to reach the ability to hold down a key position for 23 rounds. Currently the league is incredibly even and it really feels the top 12 teams are all jockeying for what ever immediate boost they can get and with current game style that comes from ready to roll mids. If I were at the bottom and commencing a rebuild I’d target the spine first and then fill in around it. Hoping to get a list profile that develops together. We’ve added some elite mids and runners over the last few off seasons. If Allan were to come available, which remains a substantial if, I’d chase him as I reckon his role, age and skills, including his leadership, would be great for our team. Of course the club would need to consider the costs involved but if I’m 3 goals down with a quarter to play in the GF, it’s players like Allan who get you the win. 
On top of all this you have Tasmania coming and that’s going to cause 2 things to happen. Clubs will be reluctant to give up high picks and there’s going to be some serious pick and player trading. 

Edited January 29 by Roost it far

[Nietaphart 69]

12 minutes ago, binman said:

All good, I didn't think you were sniping. 

Assumimg he plays to his previous level, Allan might make us better - might being the operative word.

It's not really possible to be categoric about it, particularly 12 months our of any possible trade, as we don't know what the opportunity cost would be if invested in Allan.

For example, if we traded in Allan perhaps it means Jefferson can't get senior minutes, or JVR who is currently our number one key forward doesn't play aa well with Allan in the team.

Other opportunity cost questions I'd we traded in Allan include:

- Who would we have to give up in any trade

- who would we not be able to trade in (ie who might we miss out on?- perhaps another gun who better meets our needs, a Serong or Brayshaw for example)

- what would the impact be on TPP and our ability to meet the contract demands of our young guns like (particularly relevant with tassie on the horizon)

We saw an example of some of those opportunity costs (and others) when we traded in an A grader in Grundy. 

Whilst not a key position player, his example is relevant because the initial idea was Grundy and Maxy woukd share the ruck role.

That didn't work, in part because it didn't fill a need. Our need was a key forward who could give maxy a chop out (the role they have AJ pencilled in for) not another number one ruck.

There's also another interesting piece of the puzzle as it relates to key position players.

One of the most notable things about last year's draft is how few genuine key position players were drafted in the first two rounds. The focus for most clubs was mid size runners with good skills.

Several key forwards and defenders went way later than predicted, perhaps suggesting that such players are not as important for clubs the way the game is played at the moment (ie fast ball movement and focus on transition).

Which is not say key position players are not important, just that when a club has a surfeit of such players they are less likely to chase new ones.

Allan to the Lions makes sense because they don't have a surfeit of talls.

But as evidence of the reduced focus on talls, even then they used their second pick (25 - they were always going to use their first pick on Ashcroft) to select a mid (Sam Marshall). And like the dees, only selected a tall with their last pick - Ty Gallop described in one post draft analysis as 'a project tall forward with time to grow'.

Not a snipe Binman, but 14 key position players were drafted in the first 2 rounds in the 2024 draft. Admittedly most were  picked in the second round. 
 

JT and the club talk about drafting for talent first and I would think if Allen was gettable they would trade in talent just as keenly as they draft. Particularly if it improves the list. 
 

FWIW, I’m not keen on Allen myself due to his dodgy knee and think it’s a risk too high. 
 

Kozzie leaving to go west opens up the possibility of the club trading with WC and Freeo in this case

[binman 44,558]

1 hour ago, Nietaphart said:

Not a snipe Binman, but 14 key position players were drafted in the first 2 rounds in the 2024 draft. Admittedly most were  picked in the second round. 
 

JT and the club talk about drafting for talent first and I would think if Allen was gettable they would trade in talent just as keenly as they draft. Particularly if it improves the list. 
 

FWIW, I’m not keen on Allen myself due to his dodgy knee and think it’s a risk too high. 
 

Kozzie leaving to go west opens up the possibility of the club trading with WC and Freeo in this case

As a generalisation, clubs draft for talent and trade for needs.

You only need to look at who we've traded in under goody for evidence of that 

I think Roost it far makes a good point about mids often being afl ready, and talls not, being factors in the focus on mids in the draft.

Which points to another reason for not trading in Allan.

There's always the risk of the sunk cost fallacy, but as rooster notes talls can take several years to be AFL standard. That represents a significant investment by clubs in the talls they draft in terms of time and resources- not to mention list spots.

Take Jefferson- two full years on the list and yet to make his debut. Verral is likely another year of development before he'll get a senior game. Turner took time to make his debut, as a defender, then nearly another 12 months before his next game.

Let's say they traded Allan in. JVR's position in the ones would be safe but Jefferson (assuming he debuts tgis year) and Turner's wouldn't.  F

And what about AJ and Verral?

If those players don't play senior footy in 2026 or beyond, or we choose to trade them, we get Bo return on our considerable investment in them

All that said, Jefferson might not make the grade and Turner might not go up a level. In that scenario, Allan becomes a viable option if available (ie trading out jeffo and/turner)

 

[Nietaphart 69]

1 hour ago, binman said:

As a generalisation, clubs draft for talent and trade for needs.

You only need to look at who we've traded in under goody for evidence of that 

I think Roost it far makes a good point about mids often being afl ready, and talls not, being factors in the focus on mids in the draft.

Which points to another reason for not trading in Allan.

There's always the risk of the sunk cost fallacy, but as rooster notes talls can take several years to be AFL standard. That represents a significant investment by clubs in the talls they draft in terms of time and resources- not to mention list spots.

Take Jefferson- two full years on the list and yet to make his debut. Verral is likely another year of development before he'll get a senior game. Turner took time to make his debut, as a defender, then nearly another 12 months before his next game.

Let's say they traded Allan in. JVR's position in the ones would be safe but Jefferson (assuming he debuts tgis year) and Turner's wouldn't.  F

And what about AJ and Verral?

If those players don't play senior footy in 2026 or beyond, or we choose to trade them, we get Bo return on our considerable investment in them

All that said, Jefferson might not make the grade and Turner might not go up a level. In that scenario, Allan becomes a viable option if available (ie trading out jeffo and/turner)

 

I agree clubs tend to trade for needs and I don’t see Allen a need at this stage either. Having said that, there are a lot of ‘ifs’ with our current crop of key talls. I more concerned for our KPD’s moving forward and than our key KPF’s given the age of May, TMac and Lever’s injuries. 
 

Tim Lamb has been poor with trades, luckily we have JT bringing in good talent. 

[BDA 23,019]

No way the Eagles would countenance losing Allan if he was fully fit. He could name his price and the Eagles would accept. the guy is a gun

But there is obviously some uncertainty regarding his knees

I don’t think we should take a chance. Given Kossie is looking to head west we should be positioning to lure Harley Reid back home.

[Roost it far 9,624]

Shaun Burgoyne’s knees were apparently shot when he left Port, he went ok as a Hawk, played a few games from memory. 

[Little Goffy 14,758]

Personally I believe in using the draft to try to extract the 'star' level talent and then trading to complete the structure or ensure sufficient genuine AFL-level quality across that essential best 25-30.

I'm also a fan of having a pretty long list of new kids in the system even if it means a couple from each draft never quite make it, because even speculative 3rd-rounder turnover still brings the chance of a bonus. Plus, this opens up quite a bit of salary cap space to retain that essential core.

On the other hand, we should make an enquiry of every single free agent that comes up just to inflate their price for whoever does take/retain the player. ;)

[The Jackson FIX 3,376]

6 hours ago, BDA said:

Given Kossie is looking to head west we should be positioning to lure Harley Reid back home.

Praying Reid never leaves West coast solely because I don’t think myself or this world is ready for the level of smug pollution from Sam Maclure re-inserting himself into the Harley Reid narrative