4 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Yeah, I watched that. I was surprised that I was agreeing with Kingy. But it is obvious to most the club hasn't brought in the right level of talent to replace what we have lost since the 21 flag if we were being realistic about having another crack at it. How do you replace Dogga, Hibbo, Gus, Brown, Nibbler etc. though? It can be difficult to bring in older talent and there hasn't been a great amount available especially in key positions that we could have brought in. I think we may have also been constrained with our salary cap.

How can we be so restrained by our salary cap if we are losing players?

This is what I don't get when we hear the claims our cap is tight. Why? We LOST more quality than we brought in. Also, is it not the List Managers job to manage the salary cap? more failure.

1 minute ago, MurDoc516 said:

How can we be so restrained by our salary cap if we are losing players?

This is what I don't get when we hear the claims our cap is tight. Why? We LOST more quality than we brought in. Also, is it not the List Managers job to manage the salary cap? more failure.

We signed Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw to large contracts around the time we won the flag or after if I recall correctly. That is the price of success and of at the time, having 2-3 players rated in the top 10 players in the AFL. Brown and Hibbo didn't leave straight away, Jackson left and we picked up Grundy, so I guess that is where the wheels started falling off.

1 minute ago, Bonkers said:

Yeah, I watched that. I was surprised that I was agreeing with Kingy. But it is obvious to most the club hasn't brought in the right level of talent to replace what we have lost since the 21 flag if we were being realistic about having another crack at it. How do you replace Dogga, Hibbo, Gus, Brown, Nibbler etc. though? It can be difficult to bring in older talent and there hasn't been a great amount available especially in key positions that we could have brought in. I think we may have also been constrained with our salary cap.

Agree. I saw it as well. As they discussed Goody has backed in the same troops since the flag. It's been discussed he favours those players who brought him the flag and given little exposure to fringe players who have departed. The discussion around Goody trying to evolve the game plan was pertinent as well without lack of such talent. Though this was much to his own doing due to, as the boys said, we've got butchers by foot in the middle. And we've gotten old. Also been discussed Hunter, Billings, Schache were cheap and fringe. Clubs up the top don't get high end draft picks. Gawndy unfortunately didn't work. I wouldn't put all the blame on Lamb. He'll probably go though.

Edited Wednesday at 11:461 day by Whitemencanjump

We can't attract players because the board has failed repeatedly in securing and building a home base.

FFS, did anyone watch the presser yesterday? Not even the coach liked going out to Casey. None of the players do, that's why we've been close but no cigar on recruits.

Lever, May and Langdon came almost 10 years ago when I'm sure the promise was we'll get a home base sorted.

Still nothing.

Edited Wednesday at 11:481 day by Adam The God

17 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

We can't attract players because the board has failed repeatedly in securing and building a home base.

FFS, did anyone watch the presser yesterday? Not even the coach liked going out to Casey. None of the players do, that's why we've been close but no cigar on recruits.

Lever, May and Langdon came almost 10 years ago when I'm sure the promise was we'll get a home base sorted.

Still nothing.

May was 19?

Langdon 19?

Lever 19?

4 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

We can't attract players because the board has failed repeatedly in securing and building a home base.

FFS, did anyone watch the presser yesterday? Not even the coach liked going out to Casey. None of the players do, that's why we've been close but no cigar on recruits.

Lever, May and Langdon came almost 10 years ago when I'm sure the promise was we'll get a home base sorted.

Still nothing.

2 days a week at Casey wouldn’t have been a deterrent to a bunch of players wanting success after 21 (or 22/23).

I suspect the cap was the main factor, both the Covid restriction and then the post covid cap boom. Somehow our sign Clarry early for 900k turned in to him making 1.7.

We completely struck out on our bargain basement buys. Even a couple of useful role players would’ve helped.

Lever, May and Langdon came when we were storming up the ladder with young talent, we are now back in our natural order of things right towards the bottom of the recruiting ladder.

Hopefully we can nail some of the bargain buys this year.

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

We can't attract players because the board has failed repeatedly in securing and building a home base.

FFS, did anyone watch the presser yesterday? Not even the coach liked going out to Casey. None of the players do, that's why we've been close but no cigar on recruits.

Lever, May and Langdon came almost 10 years ago when I'm sure the promise was we'll get a home base sorted.

Still nothing.

If you think that's the only reason we attract high end talent then you need to look harder.

It's definitely a contributor, but there's also our weak culture. Not many young men want to come to us (or are encouraged by family) to go to a club where there are major historical off-field issues. You know what I'm talking about. I cannot wrote the words here without it getting auto flagged

Then there is cap pressure. We signed huge, long term contracts to players who are big bodies plodders who get lots of the ball but cannot hit the ocean with a beach ball. For exaple, how do we fit an A grader or two when we pay Trac and Clarry $1mill+, and Max and Viney $900k? Then there's May and Rick on about $750k and, of course, Kossie on $1.3mill (well worth it).

Then there's our poor drafting and recruiting priorities. How long have we all been screaming for better kicking mids and a quality kpf or two? Blind freddy could see. I read Landers proclaiming 'who was available?'. Yet other clubs seem to adapt and recruit when needed. We gave up a bunch of picks for the Kolt, yet might've had our choice of Darcy Wilson, Logan Morris, Joel Freijar with those picks (or with enough lists spots, all of them). All easy for us in hindsight, but that's the full time job of Taylor and Lamb to project

Then there's the coach and the football dept. A highly regarded FD looks more attractive to recruits. No doubt Goody was excellent at player relationships, but Richo??? Yeah, nah. Todd Viney and Ooze were great, but they left for other opportunities. Compared with Coll and Geelong we look weak.

The lack of home base is a contributing factor, but one of many reasons why we cannot recruit big name players

1 hour ago, MurDoc516 said:

How can we be so restrained by our salary cap if we are losing players?

This is what I don't get when we hear the claims our cap is tight. Why? We LOST more quality than we brought in. Also, is it not the List Managers job to manage the salary cap? more failure.

It's all well and good to say we should have brought in xxxx players to replace those we have lost, but what is rarely addressed is how we would have actually done that, and with what?

We don't have a production line of father-sons like the Filth, Brisbane and now Carlton.
We don't have unlimited parcels of land or hobby farms to offer players down on the Bellarine.
We don't have the constant stream of quality academy players like Sydney or Gold Coast.

Our only option has been to throw the farm at someone like Houston and keep playing for the now, or take our picks to the draft and hope that keeps us going in the future.

The problem in my view isn't the players we have brought in, but the simultaneous decline of guys like Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Sparrow, Petty and Lever who we were trying to build the side around.

Edited Wednesday at 13:411 day by JTR

14 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

McCreery is another small forward with midfield ambitions

Would happily steal him away from the filth

he would play the Nibbler role perfectly and is a good age bracket massive tick here, second rounder gets it done comfortably, pies seem to have [censored] off a few of their own with 900k deals for perryman etc, macrae and his arrogance is going to tear the place apart, he got lucky he arrived with the list he has, i see a massive cliff forming for the pies in 12-36 months

13 hours ago, Heart Beats True said:

I would definitely have a look at Khamis. Has a fairly high ceiling.

absolutely not, he is just another goer, theres a reason he plays 12 games of vfl a year. where are you playing him? its not third tall back coz thats turner/lever its not third tall forward coz thats fritsch/melksham so its just nothing

5 hours ago, adonski said:

Wonder if we'll have any interest in Adelaide's Hugh Bond as a lockdown medium sized defender, especially given the McVee uncertainty

Out of contract this year

other than having deledio mention him every couple weeks on his podcast has he shown anything? 3 years unproven, may as well just roll sestan on another 12 months with andy back too

4 hours ago, Billy said:

I rate Cam McKenzie, can’t get a game for the Hawks

Don’t know his contract status, but l seriously have a crack

theyll have a spot for him with worpel out the door, and a massive watch on Days career, they wont want to lose a good one

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Ankle this year, knee the year before, foot in 22. 2 ACL’s in his career. Captaincy seems over, it’s now weighing up what he gives off field vs diminishing returns on field

i do think its scary looking for a skipper beyond gawn, that being said i cant remember the last time lever dominated a game and properly controlled the air, if the roos want to give him 3 years for an early second rounder im snapping their hand off, likewise if he wants to chase a flag somewhere else i wouldnt stop him, its one area of the field we have quality depth in

4 minutes ago, Turner said:

he would play the Nibbler role perfectly and is a good age bracket massive tick here, second rounder gets it done comfortably, pies seem to have [censored] off a few of their own with 900k deals for perryman etc, macrae and his arrogance is going to tear the place apart, he got lucky he arrived with the list he has, i see a massive cliff forming for the pies in 12-36 months

absolutely not, he is just another goer, theres a reason he plays 12 games of vfl a year. where are you playing him? its not third tall back coz thats turner/lever its not third tall forward coz thats fritsch/melksham so its just nothing

other than having deledio mention him every couple weeks on his podcast has he shown anything? 3 years unproven, may as well just roll sestan on another 12 months with andy back too

theyll have a spot for him with worpel out the door, and a massive watch on Days career, they wont want to lose a good one

i do think its scary looking for a skipper beyond gawn, that being said i cant remember the last time lever dominated a game and properly controlled the air, if the roos want to give him 3 years for an early second rounder im snapping their hand off, likewise if he wants to chase a flag somewhere else i wouldnt stop him, its one area of the field we have quality depth in

First part sounds familiar. Regarding my last post it wouldn't suprise me if a lot of long term contracts and short sightedness was driven by Goody with his vision for a dynasty.

And why wouldn't you follow along if your Lamb? What could possibly go wrong with Newcombe between now and 2032 and a Hawks supporter 🤔. We were all in love with Trac and Clarry long term deals.

However, there's some good evidence developing for coaches and list managers against long contracts, short sightedness and overs. The premiership team you have today probably won't win you one on three to four years with the way the games evolving.

Over the last decade Tigers were the only team that backed up, but then also, like the rest, dropped off after winning a flag. Same remains to be seen with cats and pies.

Valid points for the rest. Though I don't understand the Ryan Maric argument. No one taller than him is averaging more possessions in the game. Is 196cm, athletic, can advance the ball and only played back for a year. Also a Gippsland boy.

30 minutes ago, Turner said:

he would play the Nibbler role perfectly and is a good age bracket massive tick here, second rounder gets it done comfortably, pies seem to have [censored] off a few of their own with 900k deals for perryman etc, macrae and his arrogance is going to tear the place apart, he got lucky he arrived with the list he has, i see a massive cliff forming for the pies in 12-36 months

absolutely not, he is just another goer, theres a reason he plays 12 games of vfl a year. where are you playing him? its not third tall back coz thats turner/lever its not third tall forward coz thats fritsch/melksham so its just nothing

other than having deledio mention him every couple weeks on his podcast has he shown anything? 3 years unproven, may as well just roll sestan on another 12 months with andy back too

theyll have a spot for him with worpel out the door, and a massive watch on Days career, they wont want to lose a good one

i do think its scary looking for a skipper beyond gawn, that being said i cant remember the last time lever dominated a game and properly controlled the air, if the roos want to give him 3 years for an early second rounder im snapping their hand off, likewise if he wants to chase a flag somewhere else i wouldnt stop him, its one area of the field we have quality depth i

Edited Wednesday at 14:381 day by Whitemencanjump

10 hours ago, adonski said:

He's out of contract, I'm afraid they wouldn't have a choice

That one has the potential to get ugly - Port front runners and don’t have a whole heap that STK would want with Butters hanging around another year.

Brodie Grundy was traded to the Swans for pick No.47 and a future second-round pick, which the Dees then turned into trading those two picks for Tom Fullarton (pick No.47) and Shane McAdam (future second-rounder).

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10 hours ago, Adam The God said:

We can't attract players because the board has failed repeatedly in securing and building a home base.

FFS, did anyone watch the presser yesterday? Not even the coach liked going out to Casey. None of the players do, that's why we've been close but no cigar on recruits.

Lever, May and Langdon came almost 10 years ago when I'm sure the promise was we'll get a home base sorted.

Still nothing.

Whilst I agree that the Casey situation is not the best, average wage for these blokes is well into the 100’s of thousands and plenty on or over $900k.

There’s an entire nation of footballers that go to work all day, often driving far further than Casey, then turning up to training without fail.

I’d bet a chunk of the inner suburbs guys spend longer getting to Gosh’s than it takes to go against traffic to Casey

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Brodie Grundy was traded to the Swans for pick No.47 and a future second-round pick, which the Dees then turned into trading those two picks for Tom Fullarton (pick No.47) and Shane McAdam (future second-rounder).

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Tim Lamb… ? Like to reply.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the input (player selections), this enabled us to move the entirety of Grundy's salary off our books. The result would have been different if we were offering to pay a portion of his salary at Sydney.