AFL’s Upper Echelon

[Whispering_Jack 28,004]

The Herald Sun’s top AFL players rated in the 
AFL’s upper echelon (85+ points)

Nick Daicos 94
Marcus Bontempelli 93
Toby Greene 93
Christian Petracca 92
Errol Gulden 92
Zak Butters 91
Charlie Curnow 91
Sam Walsh 90
Jeremy Cameron 90
Connor Rozee 90
Jordan De Goey 90
Sam Taylor 90
Lachie Neale 89
Jack Sinclair 89
Jordan Dawson 89
Zach Merrett 89
Luke Jackson 89
Noah Anderson 89
Touk Miller 89
Tom Green 89
James Sicily 89
Max Gawn 89
Harris Andrews 88
Jacob Weitering 88
Darcy Moore 88
Andrew Brayshaw 88
Tom Stewart 88
Tim English 88
Jack Viney 88
Nick Larkey 88
Patrick Cripps 87
Josh Daicos 87
Cal Wilkie 87
Jake Lever 87
Charlie Cameron 86
Jai Newcombe 86
Steven May 86
Dan Houston 86
Tim Taranto 86
Rowan Marshall 86
Nick Blakey 86
Lachie Whitfield 86
Caleb Serong 86
Rory Laird 85
Hugh McCluggage 85
Isaac Quaynor 85
Patrick Dangerfield 85
Stephen Coniglio 85
Dustin Martin 85
Chad Warner 85
Oscar Allen 85
Tom Liberatore 85

The obvious missing player not in the list is our own Clayton Oliver who in my unbiased opinion is at least a 95. The Herald Sun might claim that there’s merit in his omission as follows:-

“Melbourne already has five players in that upper echelon of 85 points or more without Oliver, downgraded given the clear issues about his professionalism, off-field behaviour and likely late start to the season.“

If they carried out this sort of appraisal 12 months ago, Jordan De Goey would have rated around 60 on that basis - look where he is now. 

Clarry is already back in training with the main group at Melbourne and understanding what he can do with the footy in his hands, I have faith that he will overtake many of the above list sooner rather than later.

And that’s just one point of controversy about the list.

[Demonland 65,437]

Here are their assessments of the Dees players:-

92 Christian Petracca

Joins Brownlow Medallists Nathan Fyfe and Patrick Dangerfield as future Hall of Famers who are slightly marked down by periods where their kicking drops away. It was another massive season for best-and-fairest winner in 2023. Had he converted a little better than 28.34 in front of the sticks, it could have been one of footy’s greatest individual seasons. Instead it was unrequited with a straight-sets exit. Petracca needs a second flag to join the greats of the modern era.

89 Max Gawn

The skipper will start the season as a 32-year-old, but remains footy’s most dangerous ruckman despite the disastrous Brodie Grundy experiment which cost him a seventh All-Australian jumper. He will need all of his leadership skills to bring together these Demons given their issues, but his form when playing one-out in the final 10 weeks of last year shows his football powers have barely diminished despite his veteran status.

88 Jack Viney

Gets a rating this high given his stellar 2023 season — beaten by only Petracca in the best-and-fairest — but also his importance given the question marks over Clayton Oliver’s future. He stood up in Oliver’s absence last year, averaging five clearances and 5.9 tackles as well as racking up big possession tallies. At times he’s underrated, but few Demons are more important.

87 Jake Lever

The defender missed the All-Australian side but was third in the Keith “Bluey” Truscott Medal for a 24-game season across which he averaged three intercept marks a game. His intercept game remained strong, although he polled coaches votes in only five matches. He’s about to turn 28, but should believe he has 100 elite games left in him. 

86 Steven May

Remains one of footy’s defensive forces and was a finals colossus against Carlton and not far short of it with a 12-spoil qualifying final against the Pies. May rated elite for disposals and metres gained in 2023 — and above average for everything else that matters. The only slight query is his age as he starts the new season as a 32-year-old.

80 Angus Brayshaw

His finals exit after the brutal collision with Brayden Maynard took the gloss off an exceptional home-and-away season, with Brayshaw averaging 23 possessions and 3.3 clearances. Oliver might return to the midfield, but if Brayshaw isn’t repurposed to the half back line could he add goalkicking to his repertoire? He only kicked two goals and had 15 goal assists in 2023. 

78 Kysaiah Pickett

What a talent. What a game-turner. But also what a frustration in that finals flame-out to Carlton as he gave away needless free kicks with misplaced aggression and then nearly turned the game playing one-out as a dangerous forward in the second half. He must learn those lessons, but after 37 goals last season look for him to dominate with a consistent year that elevates him into the elite bracket.

78 Bayley Fritsch

Look for a huge bounce-back year from Fritsch, who will compete with multiple forwards to be an inside-50 target but will also get more favourable match-ups after the Demons drafted and traded to improve their forward line. He still eked out 38 goals last season, despite battling foot issues late in the year. He’d be looking for 60 goals in 2024.

77 Clayton Oliver

His football resume is incredible as a premiership player, three-time All Australian and four-time best-and-fairest winner at only 26. However, his desire to knuckle down and maximise his career is up for grabs. Until he proves he can toe the line, his football future is one giant question mark. His rating could start with a nine, but instead gets downgraded.

76 Christian Salem

Battled a thyroid injury and then missed months with a knee injury in 2023, so a 16-game season averaging 19 possessions and 79 ranking points was a reasonable return. But he needs to elevate to a new level at half back if the Demons are to flourish, which would also release players including Rivers into the midfield.

75 Trent Rivers 

The premiership half back enjoyed a season of huge gains in 2023, with a top-ten best and fairest finish and an elite rating for intercepts. The Demons believe he’s capable of serious midfield time. Is it in 2024? He is still only 22. Expect 250 games from this Demons tyro.

73 Harrison Petty

Melbourne has grand plans for Petty as one of its twin towers in attack alongside Jacob Van Rooyen. He is something of an unlikely spearhead, given the full back had been trialled in attack earlier last year. He was then sent back, only to switch again and kick six goals against Richmond in round 20. Petty injured his foot a week later and it likely cost the Demons a finals win given their forward struggles thereafter. But at his best he leads hard, marks strongly and kicks like a dream (12.1 in 2023). 

72 Jacob Van Rooyen

The Demons’ next big thing has the cult hero status and the appetite for the contest after 28 goals from the first 20 games of his career in 2023. He was silly to miss the semi-final trying to play tough guy and bumping Collingwood’s Dan McStay. Of greater concern is whether he can handle the bevy of No. 1 defenders who might come his way from round 1 onwards. He could be special but it wouldn’t surprise if it took him time to become a regular 40-goal forward. 

71 Ed Langdon

The wingman enjoyed a solid but not outstanding 2023 season, averaging 19 possessions as he missed a top-10 spot in the best and fairest and polled coaches votes only twice. He only kicked five goals for the year but averaged a strong 2.2 tackles. Will be one of many Demons who believe they can squeeze out more improvement if this side is to win another flag.

70 Shane McAdam

We could end up with egg smeared across the face, but we predict big things for McAdam in 2024. In 50 career games across four completed seasons he has averaged 0.9, 1.7, 1.5 and 1.7 goals a game. He hasn’t been a senior mainstay so he has flaws in his game, but kicking goals isn’t one of them. McAdam could be a canny Moneyball selection for a player ranked elite for goals, accuracy and forward 50 marks at Adelaide in 2023.

69 Alex Neal-Bullen 

Might have put together a career-best season in 2023 as he finished sixth in the best-and-fairest, booted 19 goals and averaged 4.7 tackles a game. While the Demons have drafted to add potency to their midfield, the elite-running half forward will remain one of the first picked given his unique skill set. 

68 Judd McVee 

What a spectacular breakthrough season for the lanky defender, who finished top-10 in the best-and-fairest. Like many Demons, he ended the year with a nasty taste in the mouth, failing to contain or body-line Sam Docherty in the decisive patch of play in a semi-final loss to Carlton. But it should not besmirch a year in which he was virtually impassable in one-on-one contests on talls and smalls. 

66 Lachie Hunter

Played 24 games as a hard-running wingman in his first season for the Demons after crossing from the Bulldogs. While he missed the top 10 in the best-and-fairest and polled only five coaches votes, he averaged 22 possessions and 390 metres gained. Hunter could hurt more with his disposal, after going at only 56 per cent efficiency in 2023.

65 Tom Sparrow

A bustling, busy midfielder, Sparrow should only get more chances this year given James Jordon and James Harmes have departed for rival clubs. The 23-year-old might need an established strength to go to the next level — he averaged 17 touches, 58 per cent efficiency, 2.6 clearances, 3.5 tackles in 2023. All are solid but not elite. Is he capable of one day reaching elite status? We might find out in 2024.

64 Jake Bowey

Flew under the radar with a far-from-flashy but consistent 2023 season, playing 23 games and averaging 16 possessions as a small close-checking defender. Since his debut in the premiership year of 2021 he has churned out 47 games with very few flat spots. At 21, he has so much room to improve.

60 Caleb Windsor

The suspicion is the Demons drafted elite-running wingman Windsor at pick 7 last November as a plug-and-play option who could immediately improve their ball use given his penchant for hitting the right option at the right time. 

58 Charlie Spargo

Mixed seven VFL games with his 14 AFL matches last season, but managed only 11 goals in his senior action. Can he find a new wind, after also averaging only 10 possessions? He will need to as a buzzy energetic half forward if he is to retain his spot in the side.

55 Kade Chandler

Should be commended for finally breaking out and winning a new deal after a 23-goal season in 2023. However, he managed only 10 majors from his last 15 games in a stretch where he went goalless nine times — including in both finals. Now that the attention has come for him, can he build on a season where he also averaged 1.2 score assists and 4.7 score involvements?

52 Koltyn Tholstrup

An intriguing prospect for Simon Goodwin, the brash Tholstrup was taken at pick 13 as an energetic and bold forward prospect with elite finishing skills. The 186cm forward from Western Australia was a needs-based selection, so don’t be surprised if he gets early chances in the senior side after playing plenty of senior WAFL football last year.

51 Tom McDonald 

The veteran never quite got going in 2023 given form and injury issues, kicking four goals against easybeats West Coast but only five majors from his other seven games. At his best he is an athletic beast who draws the footy. But the Demons could start round 1 with Harrison Petty, Jacob Van Rooyen, Shane McAdam and Bayley Fritsch forward. Therefore, McDonald needs to prove himself again — at 31 years of age.

49 Jack Billings

An unknown quantity at the Demons, but he was a canny acquisition for a club looking for more class on the outside. The question is whether he can eke out a meaningful role at a club that will hope to have a vastly improved run with injuries and has also drafted Koltyn Tholstrup and Caleb Windsor as half-forwards and wingmen.

48 Adam Tomlinson

Has played wing and key defence at the Demons since moving from GWS as a free agent, but never quite locked down a spot. If Petty is to play forward, he could play as the third tall behind Lever and May. But he needs to seize the moment as an uncontracted tall.

44 Tom Fullarton

Ex-Brisbane key forward Fullarton was identified as the Brodie Grundy replacement, even though he played little ruck in the VFL for the Lions in 2023. The athletic tall had only 50 total hit-outs across 19 senior games, so he’s an unlikely choice given he will need to provide Max Gawn with regular chop-outs to keep the skipper fresh for finals.

40 Ben Brown

A premiership hero in 2021, but his badly damaged knees might have put paid to his career. He will play out the final season of his contract, hopeful he can add a late burst to his games tally with the Demons in the flag window. However, he only managed seven AFL games for four goals and eight VFL games for 11 goals in 2023. Let’s hope his body allows him to make a final charge.

39 Marty Hore

Resuscitated his Demons career after a brilliant stint in the VFL, averaging 122 ranking points, 22 disposals and an amazing 5.5 intercept marks for Williamstown in 2023. At only 190cm he might not quite play as the third tall, but an injury or two will pave the way for him to add to his 14 games for the Demons in 2019.

38 Jake Melksham

Comes into the season off an ACL tear, but with his form almost career-best before his knee buckled last August. With the Demons having drafted a pair of forwards and secured Shane McAdam, he will need to work his way back through the VFL. But he will believe he can be a finals difference-maker. 

36 Taj Woewodin

The midfielder-forward is highly regarded at the Demons and after impressive VFL form he won four straight AFL games from rounds 17-20, averaging nine possessions. It was a solid grounding which the 20-year-old son of Shane will be desperate to build on.

35 Bailey Laurie

Played five senior games in 2023 — including the qualifying final against the Magpies — as a 179cm forward, but for little impact. The 21-year-old was the No. 22 pick in the 2020 draft so will be given chances as an elusive and clever small forward in 2024.

34 Jed Adams

The 196cm key defender spent his first year in the VFL after being taken at pick 38 in the 2022 national draft. There he won 1.5 intercept marks a game across 20 matches in a solid year, adding experience playing against men.

33 Blake Howes 

The club’s No. 39 pick in the 2021 national draft emerged as a likely type in 2023 after a 2022 season decimated by a foot injury. Playing 14 VFL games, the former junior forward averaged an impressive 93 ranking points and 23 disposals. Watch this space.

33 Josh Schache

Was contentiously preferred to Brodie Grundy as a finals sub given his capacity to ruck and play in attack. But despite an excellent VFL season, he had only 10 possessions in limited game time across three AFL games. Won another single-season deal, but is surely up against it for senior chances.

32 Kynan Brown

The father-son was selected in last November’s rookie draft as a tough inside midfielder who thrives on tackling and contested ball. The son of former dogged defender Nathan will take time to build his tank and experience in the VFL.

31 Matthew Jefferson

A 195cm key forward who was drafted at pick 15 in the 2022 national draft. One day he will be a serious prospect, but he is likely to need another year in the VFL. He had a solid 2023 season with Casey, averaging 1.3 contested marks and kicking 23 goals across 20 games. 

30 Andy Moniz-Wakefield

The NGA prospect had a solid season as a clever small forward in the VFL, kicking 20 goals from 19 contests splitting his time between the midfield and attacking half. He also averaged 1.8 clearances and 3.6 tackles. There’s plenty to like. But for 2024? Maybe not.

28 Will Verrall

The mid-season draftee is an impressive ruck prospect and played nine VFL games last season, averaging 10 touches and 16 hit-outs as well as laying 10 tackles in a match against Williamstown. He’s a future prospect, but given the Demons’ thin ruck stocks it would only take injury to thrust him forward. 

28 Oliver Sestan

A medium-sized athletic forward who kicked 12 goals in 16 VFL games and was given another deal after missing the back-end of the year with injury. Still only 19 years of age.

18 Kyah Farris-White

The former basketballer signed a new one-year deal as a category B rookie who in his first year mixed time with Dandenong in the Coates League and the Casey in the VFL. He averaged 2.5 disposals and 6.5 hit-outs in his eight VFL games, so he’s some way off.

15 Joel Smith 

We docked Smith almost 50 ratings points for stupidity. A player who kicked three goals as an unlikely semi-final target was subsequently nabbed by authorities for a cocaine positive detected on match-day from a previous contest. He is facing a two-year drug ban so who would know if he will play at all in 2024. But he will be pushing his case to downgrade it to three months.

[Gawndy the Great 7,465]

Daicos best player in the game? Seriously how is this nonsense allowed to continue. Yes he is good - but what am I not seeing here. I’d take Bont over Daicos every single time. Heck I’d even take, Greene,  Dawson before Daicos. 

[Clintosaurus 6,467]

22 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Daicos best player in the game? Seriously how is this nonsense allowed to continue. Yes he is good - but what am I not seeing here. I’d take Bont over Daicos every single time. Heck I’d even take, Greene,  Dawson before Daicos. 

Collingwood are the best team ever, or so the narrative goes.

[titan_uranus 22,444]

1 hour ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Daicos best player in the game? Seriously how is this nonsense allowed to continue. Yes he is good - but what am I not seeing here. I’d take Bont over Daicos every single time. Heck I’d even take, Greene,  Dawson before Daicos. 

I would take each of the 6 players immediately following him in the list before I'd take Daicos.

[gs77 3,330]

Kinda wierd to me this persistent narrative that individual players need multiple flags to be considered "greats". Flags are won by teams. Apparently from here Trac could round his career out with a couple of Brownlows and some BnFs to go with his already glittering trophy cabinet, but nope. Apparently it's a 2nd flag or bust.

[picket fence 15,241]

4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

The Herald Sun’s top AFL players rated in the 
AFL’s upper echelon (85+ points)

Nick Daicos 94
Marcus Bontempelli 93
Toby Greene 93
Christian Petracca 92
Errol Gulden 92
Zak Butters 91
Charlie Curnow 91
Sam Walsh 90
Jeremy Cameron 90
Connor Rozee 90
Jordan De Goey 90
Sam Taylor 90
Lachie Neale 89
Jack Sinclair 89
Jordan Dawson 89
Zach Merrett 89
Luke Jackson 89
Noah Anderson 89
Touk Miller 89
Tom Green 89
James Sicily 89
Max Gawn 89
Harris Andrews 88
Jacob Weitering 88
Darcy Moore 88
Andrew Brayshaw 88
Tom Stewart 88
Tim English 88
Jack Viney 88
Nick Larkey 88
Patrick Cripps 87
Josh Daicos 87
Cal Wilkie 87
Jake Lever 87
Charlie Cameron 86
Jai Newcombe 86
Steven May 86
Dan Houston 86
Tim Taranto 86
Rowan Marshall 86
Nick Blakey 86
Lachie Whitfield 86
Caleb Serong 86
Rory Laird 85
Hugh McCluggage 85
Isaac Quaynor 85
Patrick Dangerfield 85
Stephen Coniglio 85
Dustin Martin 85
Chad Warner 85
Oscar Allen 85
Tom Liberatore 85

The obvious missing player not in the list is our own Clayton Oliver who in my unbiased opinion is at least a 95. The Herald Sun might claim that there’s merit in his omission as follows:-

“Melbourne already has five players in that upper echelon of 85 points or more without Oliver, downgraded given the clear issues about his professionalism, off-field behaviour and likely late start to the season.“

If they carried out this sort of appraisal 12 months ago, Jordan De Goey would have rated around 60 on that basis - look where he is now. 

Clarry is already back in training with the main group at Melbourne and understanding what he can do with the footy in his hands, I have faith that he will overtake many of the above list sooner rather than later.

And that’s just one point of controversy about the list.

What a bulltish appraisal, Clarry still top 5 in competition IMV Daicos,wont get hard ball, wont tackle and his 1 %s  are non existent. Very very soft footballer! CLARRY eats him for breakfast in grunt!

[Gorgoroth 12,330]

7 hours ago, gs77 said:

Kinda wierd to me this persistent narrative that individual players need multiple flags to be considered "greats". Flags are won by teams. Apparently from here Trac could round his career out with a couple of Brownlows and some BnFs to go with his already glittering trophy cabinet, but nope. Apparently it's a 2nd flag or bust.

My thought was does this apply to Bont? Danger? 
Does that mean Toby Greene is no good? 
Super dumb statement by those journos 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I would take each of the 6 players immediately following him in the list before I'd take Daicos.

Walsh was 7th after Daicos, he should also be on your list. Were yet to see him at his best.

[leave it to deever 15,646]

Jvr has done well after really one season to be ranked that high.

He will certainly be " a one to watch " player this year.

ANd although he's been around for a little while, I'm putting Kozzie in the same category.

I don't believe we have seen what his best is yet.

[demons123452000 119]

How would D Turner feel, dosent even rate a mention 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,460]

Does the paper explain the ranking formula? Is it their own subjective assessment or another Champion Data derivation? Or generated by AI? (It has been claimed elsewhere that a significant proportion of the Herald Sun's "stories" are now generated by AI.)

[Gawndy the Great 7,465]

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

What a bulltish appraisal, Clarry still top 5 in competition IMV Daicos,wont get hard ball, wont tackle and his 1 %s  are non existent. Very very soft footballer! CLARRY eats him for breakfast in grunt!

I kind of feel that he will be somewhat found out this year. You just get the feeling that a bone crunching (legal) tackle, will rattle him. 

[picket fence 15,241]

2 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

I kind of feel that he will be somewhat found out this year. You just get the feeling that a bone crunching (legal) tackle, will rattle him. 

Bone Crunching legal tackles......Yer cant do that anymore! Oh hang on its the Dees!

[marieisademon 45]

16 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Daicos best player in the game? Seriously how is this nonsense allowed to continue. Yes he is good - but what am I not seeing here. I’d take Bont over Daicos every single time. Heck I’d even take, Greene,  Dawson before Daicos. 

It's because he plays for Collingwood, the media makes out that he is doing things of half back, that have never been done before. 

[Clintosaurus 6,467]

16 minutes ago, marieisademon said:

It's because he plays for Collingwood, the media makes out that he is doing things of half back, that have never been done before. 

Quote incredible really the fapfest about things done many times before.

[picket fence 15,241]

1 hour ago, marieisademon said:

It's because he plays for Collingwood, the media makes out that he is doing things of half back, that have never been done before. 

Check his contested ball stats, they are very very average!