PRESEASON TRAINING: Friday 2nd February, 2024

[fr_ap 2,148]

Didn't mean to start anything on Schache...my comment actually wasn't in reference to anything that happened last year. What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way. 

Rather, I was only hypothesizing on how we can use him this year. 

We wouldn't like it if the playing group were still fixated on last year. So let's all move forward shall we?

[Macca 16,173]

17 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Didn't mean to start anything on Schache...my comment actually wasn't in reference to anything that happened last year. What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way. 

Rather, I was only hypothesizing on how we can use him this year. 

We wouldn't like it if the playing group were still fixated on last year. So let's all move forward shall we?

We've extended Schache's contract but he's a depth player probably as a 2nd ruck option only ... and he wouldn't be on good money

And with Fullarton being injured and not being able to show his worth, Josh therefore comes into calculations

A lot will depend on the makeup of our tall forwards and whether any of them can play as the 2nd ruck.  If not, Schache will get his opportunities

So, as a back up ruckman, he's needed.  At least for now.  The sub again?  It could happen especially if we need a 2nd ruck in reserve for Max* and especially if the MC can't see a spot in the forward line for Schache

Is T-Mac's body going to hold up if he's the 2nd ruck (or the main man if Gawn gets injured?) 

Do we really want to use JVR as an around the ground ruckman? Is there anyone else apart from the 2 youngsters? (both 19yo's)

Just a guess but I reckon the MC had Fullarton earmarked as the forward ruck for selected games (not all) ... but he may not be available until April.  And we play 4 games in March

*Max is now a 32yo and he's now entered the stage where we may need to manage his loads.  Back in the day, when a game was in control, a veteran starter might come off the ground early in the last quarter

[Macca 16,173]

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

this whole 'goodwin is inflexible' narrative is clearly incorrect

since the premiership year he has:

• had to try multiple different forward structures with our injuries / loss of players including playing the game's premium ruckman and inspirational skipper max gawn as a deep forward
• adjusted our midfield mix due to injury to one of the best midfielders ever seen in red and blue
• rotated brayshaw from wing to half back to midfield
• rotated pickett from being our best and most defensive small forward into an occasional midfielder
• rotated rivers our best running half-back flanker into an occasional midfielder
• rotated petracca our best inside / out midfielder forward to try and get our 'connection' working
• dropped a two-time all-australian ruckman because his role wasn't working in our side in the year in which he was recruited

simmon stubborn? myth!

Excellent post, wwsw

Successfully moved T-Mac & Petty forward and stuck with Melksham

And at our best he gets a buy-in from the players on how we zone up and our all-over defence.  So we're nearly always a chance to win any game of footy

We've got some weaknesses especially with how we advance the ball forward but from all accounts, we're working on that issue at training (at least)

[58er 5,610]

6 hours ago, Macca said:

Excellent post, wwsw

Successfully moved T-Mac & Petty forward and stuck with Melksham

And at our best he gets a buy-in from the players on how we zone up and our all-over defence.  So we're nearly always a chance to win any game of footy

We've got some weaknesses especially with how we advance the ball forward but from all accounts, we're working on that issue at training (at least)

All the Simon moves you are quoting are pre planned during off seasons. planned and trained for months

Yes but the moves I are quoting are DURING THE GAME where it’s well noted industry wise he is not really flexible. Ie Not a great Match Day Coach.

Two different qualities altogether. Sheedy for  example had both qualities covered, 

You can only comment on some moves after a game all you “in hindsight” experts that are discounting these options. 

When are you able during a game? I don’t text publicly during a game except a text to family or a Melb mate. But a Coach’s job is to be vigilant and flexible. 

Let’s see with some of our new players even greater flexibility should be apparent on MATCH DAY now especially on the forward line. 

G o Dees in 2024. 

[forever demons 1,854]

9 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

WTF? When did I say this? Show me where I said this, and while you’re at it, maybe you could explain to me what I meant when I said this, coz I have nfi what this means. 

Incidentally, up to this point in time you’ve only ever been accurate once in relation to something I’ve said and that’s that I am completely over the discussion of the sub; specifically, the unused sub being the reason we lost that final and how dumb Goody is etc. This has a grand total of ZERO to do with Josh Schache.

Everyone else seems to understand what I’m saying, everyone but you.

Maybe you aren’t fluent in sarcasm like the rest of us.

Edit: you said in an earlier post that you’re done with this discussion… you lied. 😠

 

Why do you give this bloke the time of day ignore him.As my cat once told me ,never trust a man who types in the dark

[Dee Zephyr 17,696]

@58er can you please provide some examples of the moves you would’ve implemented during game day? Please don’t say the Shack for T Mac, we know your stance on that.

The game is different to what it was 20 years ago, now a whole team moves up the field and a whole team moves back. Of course structures are practiced preseason.  

One move that was made during our semi loss was Kozzie playing solely out of the square  in the second half. I haven’t seen a single second of the game since the final siren, but from memory Kozzie spent the entire second half on the ground and almost won us the game with a couple of goals, a few goal assists and a dozen score involvements. 

Maybe the game moves way too quick for me these days and I miss what moves should be made during a game. 

[rjay 23,927]

11 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

@58er can you please provide some examples of the moves you would’ve implemented during game day? Please don’t say the Shack for T Mac, we know your stance on that.

The game is different to what it was 20 years ago, now a whole team moves up the field and a whole team moves back. Of course structures are practiced preseason.  

One move that was made during our semi loss was Kozzie playing solely out of the square  in the second half. I haven’t seen a single second of the game since the final siren, but from memory Kozzie spent the entire second half on the ground and almost won us the game with a couple of goals, a few goal assists and a dozen score involvements. 

Maybe the game moves way too quick for me these days and I miss what moves should be made during a game. 

I think that's a key point...

The big match winning moves of yesteryear are very rare in the current game. 

Structures are seen as more important & they break down quickly if you introduce inconsistencies...

It doesn't mean that more subtle moves aren't made.

An example would be our supposedly inflexible coach using Oliver to tighten up on Bont in the GF.

[Macca 16,173]

2 hours ago, 58er said:

All the Simon moves you are quoting are pre planned during off seasons. planned and trained for months

Yes but the moves I are quoting are DURING THE GAME where it’s well noted industry wise he is not really flexible. Ie Not a great Match Day Coach.

Two different qualities altogether. Sheedy for  example had both qualities covered, 

You can only comment on some moves after a game all you “in hindsight” experts that are discounting these options. 

When are you able during a game? I don’t text publicly during a game except a text to family or a Melb mate. But a Coach’s job is to be vigilant and flexible. 

Let’s see with some of our new players even greater flexibility should be apparent on MATCH DAY now especially on the forward line. 

G o Dees in 2024. 

Most of the game day planning has to happen prior to the games these days.  It's a completely different sport to when Sheedy would swing players around back 40+ years ago

As for your ongoing questioning of Goodwin, it's tiresome and boring.  I'm not sure you know much about the modern game at all

All you do is whinge & whine when the team doesn't win.

We've got a very good list of players and we're very well coached.  The club is well run as well

You should be grateful that you've got a club that now does a lot right

You've joined the ranks of the resident whiners on this site.  Only happy when they've got something to whinge about

[Slartibartfast 15,820]

Personally I think the Schache decision is very easy to understand.

The coaches believed that Tmac had more chance of impacting the game than Schache. So although Tmac was having a poor game they thought he was still a better bet than Schache. The game was a slog suiting Tmac. In an open score fest Schache would have been used. It wasn’t so he wasn’t used. 
 

I agree with them. Tmac puts his body on the line and competes harder than Schache ever has. He was the better bet and they made the right decision not making the change. 
 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,247]

I reckon Max Gawn has been injured "in game" twice in his career. The Geelong game at Marvel in 2017 when he did his hammy and of course the Lions game in round 2 last year.

Instead of using Schache as sub to serve only as a "break glass" for Gawn, the club should have played the odds and assumed Gawn would not get injured and play a smaller running type player  - as Carlton did with Hollands. It was a warm night and we could have done with some fresh run late.

However, as @old55  touched on earlier, we blew our premiership chances in the Pies final rather than the Carlton final. Collingwood were too good and too tough for us prior to the Maynard incident when finals are at their hottest, and also had all the answers in the third quarter when we were trying to come back. They were too good for us that night despite popular opinion.

[mauriesy 6,815]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

The big match winning moves of yesteryear are very rare in the current game.

Yes, but some still yearn for the idea of the full back going forward in the last quarter and kicking three goals, or the full forward going in to the middle and crashing the pack to win a clearance.

[rjay 23,927]

5 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

They were too good for us that night despite popular opinion.

The scoreboard is the the ultimate judge 'BBP', they were the best team on the day (night in this case).

Edited February 5 by rjay

[layzie 28,939]

1 hour ago, Dee Zephyr said:

@58er can you please provide some examples of the moves you would’ve implemented during game day? Please don’t say the Shack for T Mac, we know your stance on that.

The game is different to what it was 20 years ago, now a whole team moves up the field and a whole team moves back. Of course structures are practiced preseason.  

One move that was made during our semi loss was Kozzie playing solely out of the square  in the second half. I haven’t seen a single second of the game since the final siren, but from memory Kozzie spent the entire second half on the ground and almost won us the game with a couple of goals, a few goal assists and a dozen score involvements. 

Maybe the game moves way too quick for me these days and I miss what moves should be made during a game. 

That's right and structures that have been practiced and practiced in the leadup can fall to bits if tampered with too much. 

Are there timer when I wish Goodwin was a bit more of a matchday guru swinging magnets? Yes. However I'd sum up his matchday coaching by saying it's because he's more a system based coach than a poor gameday coach. 

Edited February 5 by layzie

[BangBnagBang 519]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I reckon Max Gawn has been injured "in game" twice in his career. The Geelong game at Marvel in 2017 when he did his hammy and of course the Lions game in round 2 last year.

Instead of using Schache as sub to serve only as a "break glass" for Gawn, the club should have played the odds and assumed Gawn would not get injured and play a smaller running type player  - as Carlton did with Hollands. It was a warm night and we could have done with some fresh run late.

However, as @old55  touched on earlier, we blew our premiership chances in the Pies final rather than the Carlton final. Collingwood were too good and too tough for us prior to the Maynard incident when finals are at their hottest, and also had all the answers in the third quarter when we were trying to come back. They were too good for us that night despite popular opinion.

Gawn went into the game injured with a broken toe. Itywasnt a break glass move it was an insurance move with not knowing if Gawn was going to be able to get through the game. Gawn played the game out, Schache didnt get on.

[58er 5,610]

1 hour ago, BangBnagBang said:

Gawn went into the game injured with a broken toe. Itywasnt a break glass move it was an insurance move with not knowing if Gawn was going to be able to get through the game. Gawn played the game out, Schache didnt get on.

Complete lack of imagination from the FD Cttee and Coaching staff in the Semi no matter what those plans were planned. 

[58er 5,610]

4 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Personally I think the Schache decision is very easy to understand.

The coaches believed that Tmac had more chance of impacting the game than Schache. So although Tmac was having a poor game they thought he was still a better bet than Schache. The game was a slog suiting Tmac. In an open score fest Schache would have been used. It wasn’t so he wasn’t used. 
 

I agree with them. Tmac puts his body on the line and competes harder than Schache ever has. He was the better bet and they made the right decision not making the change. 
 

Well you get the result you deserve if you don’t take a chance .

We know that in life and the excuses drummed up for not taking a chance on the Sub are almost as if he was there in the 0.10 % to be used. Boy oh boy I wonder what the reaction would have been if Brodie Grundy had been the Sub and not used???? 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,247]

2 hours ago, BangBnagBang said:

Gawn went into the game injured with a broken toe. Itywasnt a break glass move it was an insurance move with not knowing if Gawn was going to be able to get through the game. Gawn played the game out, Schache didnt get on.

I forgot about that. 

Still irks me that the opposition's sub played a role in the last quarter, particularly in the match winning goal sequence while our sub sat on the pine the entire night.

Oh well, we move on... 

[WalkingCivilWar 32,327]

6 hours ago, forever demons said:

Why do you give this bloke the time of day ignore him.As my cat once told me ,never trust a man who types in the dark

My chook once told me something similar, except she factored in day drinking. 🙃

Edited February 6 by WalkingCivilWar

[WalkingCivilWar 32,327]

36 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Still irks me that the opposition's sub played a role in the last quarter, particularly in the match winning goal sequence while our sub sat on the pine the entire night.

Oh well, we move on... 

… except *we don’t. For example, right before you say “Oh well, we move on…” you make a comment that shows we’ve yet to move on, thereby nullifying your suggestion to move on.

*many of us moved on ages ago which is why this is so annoying. 

Edited February 6 by WalkingCivilWar

[BangBnagBang 519]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Well you get the result you deserve if you don’t take a chance .

We know that in life and the excuses drummed up for not taking a chance on the Sub are almost as if he was there in the 0.10 % to be used. Boy oh boy I wonder what the reaction would have been if Brodie Grundy had been the Sub and not used???? 

Goody and the match committee took a big chance. Played our captain and probably our most important player with an injury. Even though we lost you could say the chance paid off as Max played the whole game and the insurance wasnt needed.

I would have much preferred Schache sit on the bench the whole game and Max play then Max pull up saw at half time and we sub on Laurie ands have to play Tmac in the ruck

Edited February 6 by BangBnagBang

[WalkingCivilWar 32,327]

16 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Didn't mean to start anything on Schache...my comment actually wasn't in reference to anything that happened last year. What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way. 

Rather, I was only hypothesizing on how we can use him this year. 

We wouldn't like it if the playing group were still fixated on last year. So let's all move forward shall we?

 I believe you didn’t mean to start anything on Schache, fr_ap.

The thing is, there are some posters who simply don’t rate our coach and any opportunity to express as much is jumped on. Pretty much any mention of “Schache” or “sub” or our semi last year, among a whole host of triggers, will see these people absolutely in their element. 

[chook fowler 18,311]

29 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

My chook once told me something similar, except she factored in day drinking. 🙃

I did not!

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

21 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

this whole 'goodwin is inflexible' narrative is clearly incorrect

since the premiership year he has:

• had to try multiple different forward structures with our injuries / loss of players including playing the game's premium ruckman and inspirational skipper max gawn as a deep forward
• adjusted our midfield mix due to injury to one of the best midfielders ever seen in red and blue
• rotated brayshaw from wing to half back to midfield
• rotated pickett from being our best and most defensive small forward into an occasional midfielder
• rotated rivers our best running half-back flanker into an occasional midfielder
• rotated petracca our best inside / out midfielder forward to try and get our 'connection' working
• dropped a two-time all-australian ruckman because his role wasn't working in our side in the year in which he was recruited

simmon stubborn? myth!

There always that one person who brings logic to try and destroy a myth

Away with you, do you not realise posters on here know otherwise.

Unfortunately to many can’t see intricate changes in front of their eyes and wish to fabricate Chinese whispers as gospel 

[sue 8,450]

Why am I still looking at this de-railed thread supposedly about training.  Bring on this week's training reports so I don't feel tempted to look in here again.

[Ugottobekidding 915]

49 minutes ago, sue said:

Why am I still looking at this de-railed thread supposedly about training.  Bring on this week's training reports so I don't feel tempted to look in here again.

Classic demonland thread. Anything and everything unrelated to the thread.