Cool light of day

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Min Xie said:

Thank you, WCW. We really need you and your reliable sources.

Uhm… thanks (?)

Not sure if you’re being sarcastic.

I shared what I’ve been told. Emotions are clearly still running hot here and people generally don’t like what they hear after such a heartbreaking end to the season, no matter what’s said. 🙁

[dworship 3,342]

2 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Goody like everyone else is only human. I’m sure he wouldn’t be comfortable having torn strips off the players immediately after the match. I hope the players know this and it doesn’t change the fact that they all love him so much, which they do. 

Love is fickle.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dworship said:

Love is fickle.

Love conquers all. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

In regard to bad kicking. Jack is a warrior a super player with lousy disposal from day one. My issue then is the amount of mid time he is given and how we rely on him so much when the end result is often predictable. Far too few doing mid duties and you have a predictable result. 
lets say Jack gets x disposals and wastes y. Is that better than say Rivers getting less disposals but finding targets. I just think the balance in the middle needs improvement.

[BaliDemon 401]

12 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Love conquers all. 

Love isn’t always soft ‘n cuddly. Sometimes it’s delivered straight between the eyes with a sledgehammer. 

[BaliDemon 401]

3 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

In regard to bad kicking. Jack is a warrior a super player with lousy disposal from day one. My issue then is the amount of mid time he is given and how we rely on him so much when the end result is often predictable. Far too few doing mid duties and you have a predictable result. 
lets say Jack gets x disposals and wastes y. Is that better than say Rivers getting less disposals but finding targets. I just think the balance in the middle needs improvement.

Good points but the problem there is - if you don’t play Viney in the guts where do you play him? 

[Guest]

Wrong thread. Soz. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by WalkingCivilWar

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

Love isn’t always soft ‘n cuddly. Sometimes it’s delivered straight between the eyes with a sledgehammer. 

Sweet baby Jesus, I can’t begin to imagine how you’d describe Hate. 😬

[Fat Tony 5,233]

2 hours ago, old55 said:

I've seen the recent "analysis" that says we need to "improve our ball use" - that really mean reworking our contest and territory game style.  Simon Goodwin is not going to change his fundamental philosophy so that really means replacing the coach.  Apparently Max, Clarrie and Jack are among the "worst kicks in the AFL", are we confident that the new coach and game style are going to fix this or do we need to trade them too for "better ball users"?  How many seasons is it going to take to find this out?  I'm not in favour of either of these major changes.

I don't think we need to "improve our ball use" because it has the above implications, what we need to do, as I have posted elsewhere, is improve our forward personnel so that they can convert the chances we generate.  That's a much simpler and less disruptive change and we are in a very good position to make it given the players already on our list who didn't play finals, our strong draft hand and free salary cap to come (I'll make a separate post on this).

We were missing a considerable number of our best converters at the end of this year: Petty, Melksham and Van Rooyen (in the SF); and unfortunately two of our best converters are now over the AFL hill: Ben Brown and Tom McDonald.  That's the problem.  Petty, Van Rooyen and TMac are our best 3 in goal scoring accuracy according to WheeloRatings. 

We've recognised this by targeting Shane McAdam who has a very good Accuracy Rating too, he's fourth behind the 3 above when you combine both Melbourne and Adelaide's lists - yes all four ahead of Tex! 

We've got an excellent draft hand.  I know the Draft mantra is "best available" and I wholeheartedly agree that is the best strategy when you're building a list, but I don't think it applies when you've already built the list like we have.  IMHO we now need to target "needs" to fill the holes - we did that with Kossie and we need to do it again this year.  We need to draft the best forward converter we can get (and the best key defender to fill the Petty/May retirement hole).

We can throw out the baby and the bath with the bathwater or we can get some cleaner bathwater and some bubbles.  I know which one I prefer.

Excellent post.

Oliver, Petracca, Viney and Gawn are the reason for our success and the reason for our failure. None of them are great kicks but they are fast in close, tough and great at winning the contested ball. There collective skill sets don't suit a slingshot game style, which is why we play the style we do.

I thought the Petty injury was critical to our chances this year. And then Melksham and Van Rooyen being out hurt us even further. 

That's not to say our tactics were perfect. We needed to try to hit up short targets inside 50 more often to create a bit more uncertainty for the defence.

I think our list actually has enough talent in the forward line. (Of course we could do with more.) Our wings are ok but lack penetration and are not a relative strength versus the top sides and Salem has gone from a plus to a negative.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

18 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

Good points but the problem there is - if you don’t play Viney in the guts where do you play him? 

Its a good question as we have a defensive forward in ANB. Perhaps it more that every time a game heats up Viney goes to centre bounce. I think slowly restrict his involvement and let one or two others progress. 

[BaliDemon 401]

4 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Sweet baby Jesus, I can’t begin to imagine how you’d describe Hate. 😬

In the Vale Ron Barassi thread someone described the fearful sprays Barrass would occasionally dish out to the group or individual players. Yet, because he loved them he was able to move on very quickly and held no grudges. I’m sure on rare occasions he privately apologised to some too if he overstepped the mark. Testament to the fact that his methods worked were not only his many Grand Final appearances as a master coach, but the fact that quite a few players followed him to different clubs to continue to play under him. They respected and in turn loved his willingness to speak the truth, give it to ‘em straight. Sometimes with a few furious ‘F’ bombs thrown in! 
 

Hate is doing it with resentment, disconnect and an inability to express empathy at other times. Goody’s got flaws like the rest of us but that’s definitely not him. 

[Wells 11 5,406]

3 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Goody like everyone else is only human. I’m sure he wouldn’t be comfortable having torn strips off the players immediately after the match. I hope the players know this and it doesn’t change the fact that they all love him so much, which they do. 

Ive been on the receiving end of a coaching spray once or twice. It never worked for me personally...ie it was deflating not motivating for me, But people are different and it is the end of the season , not mid game or mid season and everyone just has to go away and think about that now....which may be a good thing . If there was ever a time for a real spray its post their second straight finals flop ...with ALL 4 of those games imminently winnable. Its almost unbelievable when you think about it. I just think to look around the room and see everyone hurting at the depth they all were and see how affected by it Goody was may be the right medecine. Lets hope so. 

[Roost it far 8,295]

2 hours ago, gregdemon said:

Yeah I think you are right we all love Viney but a bit slow out of centre clearances    We hardly ever win a centre clearance

I think Viney was cooked from being left to carry Oliver’s load for 10 weeks. We needed to use Sparrow more and give Viney a  rest at some point. 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Love conquers all. 

Does that mean I’m still a chance WCW ?

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Does that mean I’m still a chance WCW ?

Still a chance? STILL???? How can I put this nicely… not if you were the last grotty old bastard on earth. 

[Jaded No More 68,965]

If Goodwin had a go at them for clear lack of discipline and not following team rules, then that is absolutely fair enough.

In a game we lost by 2 points, we gave away some absolutely pathetic 50m penalties and Kosi's hot head cost us a sure goal. That is not good enough.

For a 10+ years veteran in Tmac to give away a 50m penalty for umpire abuse is inexcusable. He was frankly lucky to be in the side. It's one thing to struggle to impact a game, it's another to cost your team because you cannot contain your anger.

Even hearing Gawn post game talk about the 'interesting free kicks', doesn't fly with me. Yes the umpiring was absolutely pathetic, but Gawn could and should have won us the game nailing two seriously easy shots on goal. 

Too many excuses for a game that we win if we just show a little more composure all over the ground.

No wonder Goody was furious. 

[Abyssal 465]

9 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

 

 

Surely Goodwin & Co. had a plan B to sub him off early if that form continued into the Semi!??

No Plan B, or c or d, never had one.

No creativity, no imagination, no dare.

Plenty of Blind faith and most likely, ample amount of stubborness.

[bing181 9,242]

4 hours ago, BaliDemon said:

This is Australian rules football, not ballet.

I'm probably not too far off the mark in suggesting that perhaps you haven't spent much time in a rehearsal studio at an elite level ballet company.

Edited September 19, 2023 by bing181

[Willmoy1947 4,096]

8 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I hope there is an objective analysis and report on the season and especially the finals campaign. That would be the responsibility of Pert and Richardson hopefully using an objective, knowledgeable outsider. The postmortems in the media have been scathing as we know, from inexplicable team selection, indiscipline, selfish play to poor execution and poor on-field leadership at critical moments and add the accusations that the coach was rattled and add my thought that the captain seemed to decide he had to do it all himself. 

We need to understand what happened and what we need to do to improve.

One more fair and honest free kick or Goal (or both) paid per game this season, (and we are the only team that could say that because we were that close, if not ahead, in most games)  and we wouldn't have had to have played this week gone. We would have been resting for the preliminary, and it wouldn't matter who we played or where... 

That's how bloody bad those b's were this year. and we all know it, but we just cannot accept it.

Fancy having to say that the people in charge of a Code are cheats. 

Fancy having to say that the Media as a whole are so parochially scared to a person that they are too petrified to say what they know about firstly, betting on games, betting on BL's, and Teams that don't talk to them to get scoops or inside information because it will be twisted around.

What a pathetic, sorry, malignant state of affairs this AFL Board are running. 

The big question this year is how much of OUR MONEY this bloke walks away with. Will anyone know and will it be bigger than Qantas. We have similar Board Members, don't we//

[Willmoy1947 4,096]

While Kozzie, not being the only one, deserves his talk from the coach, is there anyone on this Forum who knows what he has to put up with?  I reckon the answer is no.

 

[dazzledavey36 54,951]

Don't mind coach tearing stips off the players.

Just hope someone is tearing strips of Goody for his absolute shambles of team selections in both finals.

His selection blunders were just as worse as both losses.

[beelzebub 23,380]

57 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

If Goodwin had a go at them for clear lack of discipline and not following team rules, then that is absolutely fair enough.

In a game we lost by 2 points, we gave away some absolutely pathetic 50m penalties and Kosi's hot head cost us a sure goal. That is not good enough.

For a 10+ years veteran in Tmac to give away a 50m penalty for umpire abuse is inexcusable. He was frankly lucky to be in the side. It's one thing to struggle to impact a game, it's another to cost your team because you cannot contain your anger.

Even hearing Gawn post game talk about the 'interesting free kicks', doesn't fly with me. Yes the umpiring was absolutely pathetic, but Gawn could and should have won us the game nailing two seriously easy shots on goal. 

Too many excuses for a game that we win if we just show a little more composure all over the ground.

No wonder Goody was furious. 

Id give Maxxy a little slack Jaded...he was mercilessly held, scragged, chopped all game for sfa recognition by the maggots.

It was deplorable.

[beelzebub 23,380]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Don't mind coach tearing stips off the players.

Just hope someone is tearing strips of Goody for his absolute shambles of team selections in both finals.

His selection blunders were just as worse as both losses.

Yep... good for geese.......

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

I think Viney was cooked from being left to carry Oliver’s load for 10 weeks. We needed to use Sparrow more and give Viney a  rest at some point. 

Absolutely.  That could've been Dunstan for the Norf game.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

7 hours ago, old55 said:

I've seen the recent "analysis" that says we need to "improve our ball use" - that really mean reworking our contest and territory game style.  Simon Goodwin is not going to change his fundamental philosophy so that really means replacing the coach.  Apparently Max, Clarrie and Jack are among the "worst kicks in the AFL", are we confident that the new coach and game style are going to fix this or do we need to trade them too for "better ball users"?  How many seasons is it going to take to find this out?  I'm not in favour of either of these major changes.

I don't think we need to "improve our ball use" because it has the above implications, what we need to do, as I have posted elsewhere, is improve our forward personnel so that they can convert the chances we generate.  That's a much simpler and less disruptive change and we are in a very good position to make it given the players already on our list who didn't play finals, our strong draft hand and free salary cap to come (I'll make a separate post on this).

We were missing a considerable number of our best converters at the end of this year: Petty, Melksham and Van Rooyen (in the SF); and unfortunately two of our best converters are now over the AFL hill: Ben Brown and Tom McDonald.  That's the problem.  Petty, Van Rooyen and TMac are our best 3 in goal scoring accuracy according to WheeloRatings. 

We've recognised this by targeting Shane McAdam who has a very good Accuracy Rating too, he's fourth behind the 3 above when you combine both Melbourne and Adelaide's lists - yes all four ahead of Tex! 

We've got an excellent draft hand.  I know the Draft mantra is "best available" and I wholeheartedly agree that is the best strategy when you're building a list, but I don't think it applies when you've already built the list like we have.  IMHO we now need to target "needs" to fill the holes - we did that with Kossie and we need to do it again this year.  We need to draft the best forward converter we can get (and the best key defender to fill the Petty/May retirement hole).

We can throw out the baby and the bath with the bathwater or we can get some cleaner bathwater and some bubbles.  I know which one I prefer.

Disco 'might' eventually fill the May role.  Or Adams.  They'll need to come on strongly in 24 though.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Demon Dynasty