What's needed in 2024

[Return to Glory 8,434]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Not going to dwelve into last night's performance because I think that's been done to death.

With the list we have we simply should be contending deep into finals but the fact we've gone 2 years in a row with straight set exits is to put it bluntly, unacceptable and embarrassing. 

I'll raise a few point and see how others feel.

• Coaching restructure.

I think the likes of Stafford and Yze have done their time. I'm hoping Yze gets the senior gig at Richmond and Stafford is moved on. Since 2020, we've made zero changes to our coaching structure and if you're not careful players can get really stale with the same voice over and over again. Some fresh coaches with fresh ideas is what needed imo.

• Ruthless list management calls on senior players.

Tmac and Benny Brown are beyond cooked and still have a year to run on their contract. One or both need to be tapped on the shoulder and told thanks for your service because they're two injury prone blokes that continue to break down and clog up list space. To watch Tmac dish up that performance last night was embarrassing really. I would also put Salem up for trade. I know his form in the last two years has been poor but he'll be 29 next year and I cannot see him getting back to his standard of 2021. If he can net us a late 1st rounder or early 2nd then I'd jump at the opportunity. Another who struggles to play a full season out due to injury/illness. I'd also reward Melksham with a 1 year contract and put him on the rookie list. Trade out Jordon and Harmes for peanuts but keep Tomlinson. 

• Review our list management process.

The Brodie Grundy trade was an absolute blunder, there is no way sugar coating it. Blind Freddie could see that bringing in another a genuine number one ruck was never going to work. There were many, me included, who raised concerns regarding this decision last year and our worst fears came to fruition when we attempted to turn him into a forward which turned into another blunder. I feel bad for Grundy but Sydney will be a much better fit. We dont need to be going out and buying expensive rucks, we just need to bring in someone that come in and play a role when needed to relieve Max and even pinch hit up forward. Hayden McLean type. On other list management decisions, don't sell it to guys like Dunstan and Schache and say that there certainly will be opportunities there and then refuse to play them when we've had those opportunities open up. Goody is part of this process so he too needs to seriously reconsider how he approaches this when targeting players. We had poor Dunstan racking up close to 40 touches a game and yet we rewarded the same guys in Harmes and Jordon who were giving us absolute zero output at AFL level.

• Captaincy decision?

I'm really torn on this and hesitated leaving this one out. But is it time to make a call on the captaincy? We all love Gawn for what he's done for this footy club but he's also getting on. The two misses last night were very costly and when you're needing your captain to stand up in the moment unfortunately he just couldnt grab his chances. He also doesn't have much time left in the game and I'm starting to think maybe a fresh leader with a fresh voice could be good for the group perhaps. Still torn on this one.

Really interesting post. Agree with much of it other than the captaincy. Not sure Salem will net us much more than a late second rounder based on recent performances. Can we add him to the equation (whatever it is) to get Gold Coasts pick four?

We played much of last night like we were afraid to lose rather than daring to win. A couple of new coaches may just bring that.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Return to Glory

[DeeSpencer 25,639]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

last two years has been poor but he'll be 29 next year and I cannot see him getting back to his standard of 2021. If he can net us a late 1st rounder or early 2nd then I'd jump at the opportunity. Another who struggles to play a full season out due to injury/illness

I doubt we’re getting even a high 2nd given his injuries and in that case we’d only be doing it for cap relief/list turnover.

Salo had a really nasty knee injury (thanks to a sliding in Tarryn Thomas), got OP when he came back, had his health issue and then copped injuries this year. Awful 2 year stint.

There’s nothing that can’t be fixed with a change of luck. We are at our best when he’s getting 30 touches and controlling things from half back. I wouldn’t change that unless we have a plan on how the cap space can be better spent.

[DeeZone 9,798]

2 hours ago, YearOfTheDees said:

I'm going to get shouted down here but I believe Max needs to step down as captain and hand it over the Lever. 

Ever since he did that Razor add in the Gold Robe he has lost some Magic. Lol.!!!

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

57 minutes ago, greenwaves said:

My concern is that Goodwin doesn't like change and won't make the major changes to the game plan that we so desperately need

I think there is a meme out there that pertains to:

Tell me you don’t know something… etc etc

There is credible evidence in every season that  Goodwin has flexibility, makes hard decisions etc.

ps: what part of the game plan that has had us in the top 4 for 60 odd rounds consecutively would you choose to change?

 

**feeling quite terse. It’s not an overarching game plan problem, it’s a finishing problem. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Engorged Onion

[Red and Blue Flame 180]

This club needs to be more ruthless. It got credit for targeting Lever and May and broke the stereotype of safe recruiting/drafting. Those moves proved to be masterstrokes that basically got us the flag in '21 along with some decent drafting.

Unfortunately, we are yet to nail a FWD. 

With the picks we currently have + what we will get for: Grundy, Harmes, Jordon, we must be aggressive. Gawn is 31.

Yes Petty looks good, and yes JVR will hopefully come on/Jefferson might get exposure, but injuries happen - as we've seen the last two years and therefore we need depth. We need a FWD for the next 2-4 years while JVR and Jefferson learn their craft. It is no good throwing JVR to the wolves getting the best defender each week as a 20 yo.

 

[Surfer Dee 210]

We need to average two goals a game more next year imo. 
Assume we target accuracy every year so even though this is the most relevant way to improve I'll ignore that here.

We just need a clever, crafty forward. Not a freak, just someone to kick 30-40 a year. That might be Petty...

 And a lock down defender. 
 

Don't panic, stay the course, keep our strengths strong, bring our forward line up to afl average or slightly better and we're golden. This team will compete for 5+ years. 
 

The window is not closing, don't burn it down, small improvements will make the difference.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

1. Sack all players and coaches

2. De register the club

3. Shut down the AFL

[drdrake 3,163]

1 hour ago, MurDoc516 said:

If Yze goes then that at least prompts a coaching change. We need someone who can fill the midfield coaching/assistant coaching role he fills. I think we need to either get a complete unknown and take a risk or do what we did in 2021 and go poach the best assistant in the business. Who those are, I'm not too sure and would love to hear suggestions.

Brad Miller was a top forward's coach for GWS and is now at the Suns, Dimma is cutting people left and right, make an offer and bring him in.

 

Is Michael Barlow worth a look for assistant coach, has a relationship with Choco from his tear coaching werribee and doing a good job as head coach at werribee 

[Soidee 1,496]

I have no idea, but reaching top 4 has been totally useless come finals.  We fumbled our way to that position then got found out.  All there is to say is some heads must roll and a very very tough pre season to get it right.  Our execution has been rubbish for two years. 

[BW511 2,667]

I’d also be asking the club to have a think about the role Jake Lever plays.

He is an excellent interceptor but in the same manner as our forwards being defenders first, he’s not flash at actually defending.

I don’t think there’s any reason for a captaincy change, I certainly wouldn’t be giving it to Trac. 

 

[DeeSpencer 25,639]

Retire: Hibbo, BBB, McDonald

Delist: Dunstan, D Smith, ?K Turner

Trade: Grundy, JJ (FA), Harmes, Tomlinson

9 or 10 out.

Trade for:

1 x ruck (replacing Grundy)
1 x forward/ruck (T Mc)
1 x quality tall or barring that a swing man tall (BBB)
1 x McAdam
1 x midfield depth 

Take 4-5 picks in the drafts including at least 2 quality picks (ie. 1/20, 6/7, 6/15/20)

[ElDiablo14 4,997]

47 minutes ago, Red and Blue Flame said:

This club needs to be more ruthless. It got credit for targeting Lever and May and broke the stereotype of safe recruiting/drafting. Those moves proved to be masterstrokes that basically got us the flag in '21 along with some decent drafting.

Unfortunately, we are yet to nail a FWD. 

With the picks we currently have + what we will get for: Grundy, Harmes, Jordon, we must be aggressive. Gawn is 31.

Yes Petty looks good, and yes JVR will hopefully come on/Jefferson might get exposure, but injuries happen - as we've seen the last two years and therefore we need depth. We need a FWD for the next 2-4 years while JVR and Jefferson learn their craft. It is no good throwing JVR to the wolves getting the best defender each week as a 20 yo.

 

It boggles the mind that after our 2021 season we couldn't attract a decent KPF.

Surely lot of players would like to join a premiership contender as the star KPF. This is the reason Tom Lynch joined Richmond.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

The risk vs reward in trading Salem is not at all worth it. Also the messaging is terrible - you can be a champion of the club, best mates with the two players on lifetime contracts and arguably the best field kick in the team, but if you get injured/unwell you’re out of here.
 

Salem deserves a chance to regain his form at the club, much more than certain others do. 

[BDA 22,738]

23 minutes ago, Bring Back Barassi said:

1. Sack all players and coaches

2. De register the club

3. Shut down the AFL

4. Burn down the MCG

[Go the Biff 3,414]

7 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

It boggles the mind that after our 2021 season we couldn't attract a decent KPF.

Surely lot of players would like to join a premiership contender as the star KPF. This is the reason Tom Lynch joined Richmond.

Who ?

Jesus I get sick of reading this tripe. 

The only KPF available was McStay and he'd cast his lot in with the Pies.

Your mind must be easily boggled. 

[Pipefitter 2,159]

How about ditch the imperfect football and arm wrestles and train to execute like professional football players?

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

1 minute ago, Go the Biff said:

Who ?

Jesus I get sick of reading this tripe. 

The only KPF available was McStay and he'd cast his lot in with the Pies.

Your mind must be easily boggled. 

Clearly you don’t believe in the “Forward Fairy”. 

[ElDiablo14 4,997]

5 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Who ?

Jesus I get sick of reading this tripe. 

The only KPF available was McStay and he'd cast his lot in with the Pies.

Your mind must be easily boggled. 

I believe McKay could have been an option last year. But I digress. The important thing now is what will we do next year?

[Monbon 1,840]

All of these post mortem/coach/tactic blaming posts miss out on the biggest factor around, and it ain't Max. I'm talking about the sheer perversity of the element called LUCK. Luck is involved in the Injury list. Just examine the players who luck slaughtered at crucial stages this year:

Gawn

Oliver

Melksham- just when we needed him.

Fritsch

Brayshaw   -  the  unluck in his case to be brutally assaulted by Maynard

Salem early season blues, struggled to get back to his best...

McDonald - again.

B.Brown

Petty

Smith early in the season

Okay, the arrow of injury slaughters many sides but the bottom line in the Demons case is that despite all these setbacks - note well, most afflicted were the forwards - we finished Top 4, 2nd year in a row.

Therefore, the Doomsday Desperadoes who dwell on woe to woe, who want every coach replaced most of the time, should remember that in the end, on that last game in September, there can only be one winner. To cast the rest to hell for 'Failure' is my idea of a Utopian Hell. 

Sure, our list needs to be strengthened. We seem to have a surfeit of more than capable defenders - some fine Casey backline regulars must be cursing their lack of opportunity - and, it has to be said, we have made some recruiting blunders on the one hand - Grundy comes to mind - but here also, some of the recruiting tosses of the coin - Ben Brown comes to mind - seemed to be well-fated and ended in despair for both parties, but all in all, the recruiting team have handed us some genuinely talented players and their success ration is way in its favor - Hibberd, Melksham, May, Lever, Langdon, Hunter from other clubs come to mind - and look at the backline talent they've assembled. 

So, stay positive, ladies and gents, and pray to the God who dispenses injury woes.

It must also be said that it is obvious we are not in the good books of the AFL Masters, witness the MRI farces which they present as 'justice' for a start. And, also, keep in mind, the factor the luck of the draw in umpiring decisions has made on some of our games. I cannot bear to watch the replay of yesterday's match, but I have noted the howls of 'WE was robbed' from some of you.

Wid a little bit of luck, I am 173 years old now, toodle pip, see you all next year.

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,427]

12 hours ago, biggestred said:

A new forwards coach. Thats literally it. They could try leading at the football

And so said the chorus of 70,000 members 

[Monbon 1,840]

14 minutes ago, BDA said:

4. Burn down the MCG

5: Land on the moon - resurrect Kubrick.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Every one of those delinquents who missed easy shots in the last two games gets detention, sent down to Melbourne Grammar and writes out 10,000 times “I will not miss any more ducken easy shots at goal”

Then they go down to the oval and keep practicing their kicking till their boots wear out, and they are kicking barefoot 

[ElDiablo14 4,997]

17 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

The risk vs reward in trading Salem is not at all worth it. Also the messaging is terrible - you can be a champion of the club, best mates with the two players on lifetime contracts and arguably the best field kick in the team, but if you get injured/unwell you’re out of here.
 

Salem deserves a chance to regain his form at the club, much more than certain others do. 

It's also not ideal to keep a player just because he is best mate with the two stars of the team.

Unfortunately for Salem, we are actually loaded in the half back line. So it is not so outrageous to consider a trade for him, potentially.

Most likely that won't happen anyway so it is a moot point.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

8 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

It's also not ideal to keep a player just because he is best mate with the two stars of the team.

Unfortunately for Salem, we are actually loaded in the half back line. So it is not so outrageous to consider a trade for him, potentially.

Most likely that won't happen anyway so it is a moot point.

That’s quite the reductive misrepresentation of what I said. 

[samcantstandya 1,045]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Not going to dwelve into last night's performance because I think that's been done to death.

With the list we have we simply should be contending deep into finals but the fact we've gone 2 years in a row with straight set exits is to put it bluntly, unacceptable and embarrassing. 

I'll raise a few point and see how others feel.

• Coaching restructure.

I think the likes of Stafford and Yze have done their time. I'm hoping Yze gets the senior gig at Richmond and Stafford is moved on. Since 2020, we've made zero changes to our coaching structure and if you're not careful players can get really stale with the same voice over and over again. Some fresh coaches with fresh ideas is what needed imo.

• Ruthless list management calls on senior players.

Tmac and Benny Brown are beyond cooked and still have a year to run on their contract. One or both need to be tapped on the shoulder and told thanks for your service because they're two injury prone blokes that continue to break down and clog up list space. To watch Tmac dish up that performance last night was embarrassing really. I would also put Salem up for trade. I know his form in the last two years has been poor but he'll be 29 next year and I cannot see him getting back to his standard of 2021. If he can net us a late 1st rounder or early 2nd then I'd jump at the opportunity. Another who struggles to play a full season out due to injury/illness. I'd also reward Melksham with a 1 year contract and put him on the rookie list. Trade out Jordon and Harmes for peanuts but keep Tomlinson. 

• Review our list management process.

The Brodie Grundy trade was an absolute blunder, there is no way sugar coating it. Blind Freddie could see that bringing in another a genuine number one ruck was never going to work. There were many, me included, who raised concerns regarding this decision last year and our worst fears came to fruition when we attempted to turn him into a forward which turned into another blunder. I feel bad for Grundy but Sydney will be a much better fit. We dont need to be going out and buying expensive rucks, we just need to bring in someone that come in and play a role when needed to relieve Max and even pinch hit up forward. Hayden McLean type. On other list management decisions, don't sell it to guys like Dunstan and Schache and say that there certainly will be opportunities there and then refuse to play them when we've had those opportunities open up. Goody is part of this process so he too needs to seriously reconsider how he approaches this when targeting players. We had poor Dunstan racking up close to 40 touches a game and yet we rewarded the same guys in Harmes and Jordon who were giving us absolute zero output at AFL level.

• Captaincy decision?

I'm really torn on this and hesitated leaving this one out. But is it time to make a call on the captaincy? We all love Gawn for what he's done for this footy club but he's also getting on. The two misses last night were very costly and when you're needing your captain to stand up in the moment unfortunately he just couldnt grab his chances. He also doesn't have much time left in the game and I'm starting to think maybe a fresh leader with a fresh voice could be good for the group perhaps. Still torn on this one.

I agree with all of this and go further that Max should step aside and free himself from the captaincy burden. It'll extend his career. Give it to Lever or Viney. Out of left field Trac he'd relish it.