On 9/8/2023 at 4:38 PM, Superunknown said:

Very good isn’t good enough with this list

I want more

 

That's absolutely understandable, but you also *should* be taking into consideration the context of success.

The league is a very even competition now, with many teams results being dictated by their physical capability (e.g. fitness, body strength and injuries).  Geelong is a prime example of this.

While our list, on paper, should be getting premierships, it had to build to this point (via the draft and trading) to get to the fitness and body strength needed to play out an entire season, finish top 4 regularly, and then battle to get to the GF.

We were very lucky in 2021 with injuries, Tommo being the only real big injury. 

Last year they caught up with us in a big way after a 10-0 start and finished us off by the time the Finals started.

This year we have done really well with big injuries (e.g. Max, BBB, TMac, Melksham etc) largely because of the depth of the squad and its ability to play to our plan.

I would certainly trade almost anything for another GF, objective reasoning says that we are doing very well in an even competition where you are judged on your on-field results.

If we play the same way against Carlton we are going to hell. Our starts are always nervous and we play catchup. I've lost positivity because we have not solved our problems.  Wait for the slagfest if we go out in straight sets.   The club will be rightly accused of wasting two years of opportunity. 

Our f50 entry efficiency was better than the blues by 10% and we still lost. 
 

FMD, can we PLEASE change our game plan this off season?

Thanks. 

We have bombed the ball inside our forward since Moloney/Jamar. We just happened to pinch the 21 flag. Supporters are happy enough with that.

43 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

We have bombed the ball inside our forward since Moloney/Jamar. We just happened to pinch the 21 flag. Supporters are happy enough with that.

Agree at a very basic level but we both know it’s more complicated. 
 

Regardless, this method of forward entry cannot persist. A massive overhaul is required. 

46 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

We have bombed the ball inside our forward since Moloney/Jamar. We just happened to pinch the 21 flag. Supporters are happy enough with that.

absolutely rubbish to say supporters are 'happy' with that

the vitriol and bile on here is proof positive of that

I’m out of here, good luck to all the optimists who couldn’t see the issues throughout the year that the realists could.

3 minutes ago, Super Sub Schache said:

I’m out of here, good luck to all the optimists who couldn’t see the issues throughout the year that the realists could.

Okay, Clint. 
 

we all see the game differently and have a range of emotions.

Onwards and upwards! 🔴🔵💥

Two more years of this list being potentially at it's best

Need to bring in some more clean ball users...

Salem, Bowey need to improve

And the Wing dream is over, Langon had a howler of a last month, and we now know why Hunter was traded out of Footscray

The only upside of this horror show of a finals series is that it’s an unavoidable problem now.

Something has to be done.

The window was now and sad to say it may have already closed. The peak for our top 5 players was the last few years and don’t think we have a talented enough young line up to plug the gaps, there’s a few like Rivers, Jvr maybe. We need to recruit fast as 2024 could see the beginning of our decline as other teams start to rise, look at Carlton and GWS and those teams knocking at the 8. 

3 minutes ago, masterzak said:

The window was now and sad to say it may have already closed. The peak for our top 5 players was the last few years and don’t think we have a talented enough young line up to plug the gaps, there’s a few like Rivers, Jvr maybe. We need to recruit fast as 2024 could see the beginning of our decline as other teams start to rise, look at Carlton and GWS and those teams knocking at the 8. 

May was unreal tonight but looked sore, I think he’s got 2 years left at the most but it might even be 1, same with Max - especially if we continue making him ruck solo against 2. 

FMD how did we not make better use of Grundy? How do we end up with 2 all Australian rucks and it’s just “oh sorry it didn’t work”. 

10 i50 marks tonight, 5 short of our average in wins. Score of 71 points, 29.5 points short of our average in wins. Take more marks i50, kick more goals, win games. 

7 minutes ago, masterzak said:

The window was now and sad to say it may have already closed. The peak for our top 5 players was the last few years and don’t think we have a talented enough young line up to plug the gaps, there’s a few like Rivers, Jvr maybe. We need to recruit fast as 2024 could see the beginning of our decline as other teams start to rise, look at Carlton and GWS and those teams knocking at the 8. 

Let’s just compete as a team and as supporters- well, show support. 

How is Tmac only 29. 

1 minute ago, Pipefitter said:

How is Tmac only 29. 

was playing on nick riewoldt at 19

he's been a warrior but his body is shot

4 hours ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

May was unreal tonight but looked sore, I think he’s got 2 years left at the most but it might even be 1, same with Max - especially if we continue making him ruck solo against 2. 

FMD how did we not make better use of Grundy? How do we end up with 2 all Australian rucks and it’s just “oh sorry it didn’t work”. 

10 i50 marks tonight, 5 short of our average in wins. Score of 71 points, 29.5 points short of our average in wins. Take more marks i50, kick more goals, win games. 

I hear you but Grundy rarely marks inside 50.

Gawn a slight improvement but not that much better either.

I'm not sure why anyone ever thought, or still believes, that Grundy (or even Max) was going to offer up a marking target as a forward or part-time forward.  He just wasn't or isn't a forward in any sense of the role and was a fair way off LJ's ability here as well (if that's what Goody & Co. were hoping to replace).

In fact all three are not that impressive when played up forward as a part-timer but Jackson def has the edge.

Player averages this season...

Marks Inside 50

Gawn 0.7   Grundy 0.4   Jackson 1.1

Contested Marks

Gawn 2.3  Grundy 0.8   Jackson 1.2

Marks on a lead

Gawn 0.3  Grundy  0.2  Jackson 0.6

Edited September 15, 20231 yr by Demon Dynasty

4 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

was playing on nick riewoldt at 19

he's been a warrior but his body is shot

Was very hard to watch last night.  The desire & effort was still there.

Has the heart of a great competitor but just couldn't make many of the contests he needed to and was then asked to play time in the middle for Max which is just not his gig.

As to why we didn't bring Shack on for T-Mac in the 2nd half to relieve Max in the middle and at least provide a target at FF and ruck duties there (or put Max there while Shack took the CB ruck duties) is mind boggling.

The next logical question is, why was he ever sub in the first place?

At a number of ball ups inside 50 in the second half we had either no designated ruck or Tracc going up against Pit lol.

Edited September 15, 20231 yr by Demon Dynasty

Let's face it, we somewhat fluked it in 2021 when the key forwards we had in T Mac and Brown were able to stay out on the park enough and contribute at a level that ment we had a functional forward line.  Dogga was a reasonable contributor who's marking capasity we've somewhat replaced with JVR.  But until that point our forward line was a weakness up until 2021 and unfortunately, they were only able to hold it together physically injury wise for that one year.  BBB was an absolute asset in 2021 when fit, but he's body has fallen apart since then, likewise T Mac.

To a certain extent I think we pinned too much hope or faith on Weid making it as a key forward and didn't draft enough supplementary talls to develop along side him.

This season our forward line has just been smashed by injury at every turn.  T Mac and BBB trough age, accumulated injuries, Petty, Melksham and Fritsch through bad luck.  While Fritsch played tonight, I think he's struggled to get back his elite set shot accuracy in an injury interuped season.

I'm hoping that JVR comes back next year physically more developed, has benifited from the exposure and development he has got this season and imposes himself on games more as he really looks the goods at times and his goal kicking accuracy is superb.

Like @picket fence, I think Joel Smith needs to be played as a regular forward as he's got all the weapons on the lead, in the air, with his set shots and is also defensively excellent with his elite pace.  I was equally as impressed with some of his substitute backline roles late this season, but forward is where our greatest need is.  Needs to stay fit and on the park the whole season next year and really hit the start of the H&A running.

Whether it's Petty down forward again or we recruit another mature key forward, I think we still short that third key forward.  I was impressed with those 3 or 4 games that Petty did impose himself as a forward this season, but something really does make me feel we lack that third key defenders and or the player to take over Steve May's place in the side one day and I think Petty is that guy.  I like Tomlinson's determination, but I'm comming (perhaps somewhat belatedly) to the conclusion that he's just that fraction off the elite key defender material that made us so great in 2021.

Edited September 15, 20231 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

With the injuries we've had, hardly surprising that the forward line and connection upfield has been malfunctioning. In the back half of the year, did we manage the same forward 6 for any two consecutive matches? I believe not. One thing you need going into finals is consistency or you get found out.

5 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

was playing on nick riewoldt at 19

he's been a warrior but his body is shot

If only we had that version of T Mac now.

His best years were wasted when we were putrid or not quite there yet.

Tommy was an absolute athletic weapon when he was younger.

2 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

I hear you but Grundy rarely marks inside 50.

Gawn a slight improvement but not that much better either.

I'm not sure why anyone ever thought, or still believes, that Grundy (or even Max) was going to offer up a marking target as a forward or part-time forward.  He just wasn't or isn't a forward in any sense of the role and was a fair way off LJ's ability here as well (if that's what Goody & Co. were hoping to replace).

In fact all three are not that impressive when played up forward as a part-timer but Jackson def has the edge.

Player averages this season...

Marks Inside 50

Gawn 0.7   Grundy 0.4   Jackson 1.1

Contested Marks

Gawn 2.3  Grundy 0.8   Jackson 1.2

Marks on a lead

Gawn 0.3  Grundy  0.2  Jackson 0.6

Yeah I should’ve been clearer that they were separate points. The marks i50 thing referred to my earlier post about hitting targets and converting i50s into goals not specifically Gawn/Grundy. We needed 2 rucks AND we also needed to hit targets i50. 

Gawn helps with the second one if you use him properly (took 2 tonight and kicked points) but overall we needed better ball use going forward again. Or better forwards who know where to be. 

7 hours ago, masterzak said:

The window was now and sad to say it may have already closed. The peak for our top 5 players was the last few years and don’t think we have a talented enough young line up to plug the gaps, there’s a few like Rivers, Jvr maybe. We need to recruit fast as 2024 could see the beginning of our decline as other teams start to rise, look at Carlton and GWS and those teams knocking at the 8. 

Oliver is 26

7 hours ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

May was unreal tonight but looked sore, I think he’s got 2 years left at the most but it might even be 1, same with Max - especially if we continue making him ruck solo against 2. 

FMD how did we not make better use of Grundy? How do we end up with 2 all Australian rucks and it’s just “oh sorry it didn’t work”. 

10 i50 marks tonight, 5 short of our average in wins. Score of 71 points, 29.5 points short of our average in wins. Take more marks i50, kick more goals, win games. 

Agree on Grundy 

some hard questions need asking

should have played last week

47 inside 50s

6 goals

We were actually 4 from 40 before the last 2 junk goals.

I guess there's a bit more to footy than just contested ball and territory hey Simon.

1 hour ago, 1858 said:

47 inside 50s

6 goals

We were actually 4 from 40 before the last 2 junk goals.

I guess there's a bit more to footy than just contested ball and territory hey Simon.

3 years later we are Still working on our method and forward connection. But we now have backs trying to be forwards instead and the same mids that are lacking in kicking skills department. Going well