15 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Grundy, Tom McDonald, Schache, Joel Smith, Tomlinson in play May forward?

We need 2 Petty’s and it looks like we’ll have none for the next 6 weeks 

May would get murdered forward in my view not the right move

[censored].

14 hours ago, Travy14 said:

2019, go and have a look at his stats. Il accept your apology later!

I think we also forget how young Petty is. He was only 19 in 2019 so his output was actually quite promising for a key position player of his age. Usually, we have patience with our key position players as we know they take time. We don’t really expect JVR to do any more than kick a goal a game because we’re aware he’s young and developing.

If McDonald hadn’t been so dominant in those years or if Tomlinson hadn’t been injured in 2021, he may have developed as a forward. But who knows? Maybe the years spent as a defender have given him the insights to be a more complete player.

Whether or not he can get back this year. He’ll still only be 24 next season and ready to tear it up for another 6 years at least.

 

 

Edited August 6, 20231 yr by wisedog

16 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Grundy, Tom McDonald, Schache, Joel Smith, Tomlinson in play May forward?

We need 2 Petty’s and it looks like we’ll have none for the next 6 weeks 

Have you seen May’s kicking for goal?

25 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Have you seen May’s kicking for goal?

From my recollection it can be pretty decient.  He is usually trying to snag them on the edge of his distance from outside 50.  The the time I remember we played him for any time as a true forward was against Freo in 2020 up in Darwin, where he kicked a few quick fire goals and nearly won us the game.

Still I can't see Goodwin wanting to unsettle both ends of the ground at once, so I suspect May stays back, except perhaps in a break glass type situation if we are well down in a final, but even then, I think Goodies record is that he's hesitant and generally too slow to give something like this a try until it's too late.

It's a very long shot, I know, but I wouldn't totally give up hope of T Mac or BBB comming good and playing some kind of role for us up forward.  I think most would have written Melksham off impacting the way he has this season, so you just never know.

Still personally I think it's much more likely that we fill the void through one or a combination of Trac, Fritta and Grundy/Gawn or perhaps all three.  I do often hear Max speak of how rucks and talls come into their own in finals as fatigue sets in, so I really suspect there's a well established plan that Grundy comes back in the next few weeks and supports in the ruck and forward.  From early season form, I also don't think it's beyond Grundy to contribute meaningfully on the scoreboard.

The suggestions of May going forward seem to forget that we're a defence first team that wants to play three key talls and plays much better defence when we have three talls.

If we take May out of the back 7-8, which IMV would be a terrible move, who is replacing May at the other end?

And don't say we're going to play Smith, Lever and Tomlinson together. Smith was a deadset liability in defence yesterday. He flies for that pack mark that he tries to take as a defender every time he moves back. He never takes them, and palms them directly down to the opposition, and away they sweep. Aggressive positioning is fine if you understand zonal marking, but he's another Frost. Too unpredictable in the back half. If we go into a final with him starting back, we will regret it.

If Smith is going to play, it's as a forward or as a sub that we don't rely on to play defence from the get go, but as a bandaid option.

Against Carlton, it's the right time to see if Grundy can work as this tall again, in combination with JVR, Smith and Melksham. JJ shifts to the sub role and it becomes JJ (and Hibbo) and Petty for Grundy and Oliver. Harmes is fortunate to keep his place, but can play half forward better than JJ and is always where the ball is, just needs to be a lot better when he gets it.

20 minutes ago, A F said:

The suggestions of May going forward seem to forget that we're a defence first team that wants to play three key talls and plays much better defence when we have three talls.

If we take May out of the back 7-8, which IMV would be a terrible move, who is replacing May at the other end?

And don't say we're going to play Smith, Lever and Tomlinson together. Smith was a deadset liability in defence yesterday. He flies for that pack mark that he tries to take as a defender every time he moves back. He never takes them, and palms them directly down to the opposition, and away they sweep. Aggressive positioning is fine if you understand zonal marking, but he's another Frost. Too unpredictable in the back half. If we go into a final with him starting back, we will regret it.

If Smith is going to play, it's as a forward or as a sub that we don't rely on to play defence from the get go, but as a bandaid option.

100% this. Smith is a liability in defense. He’s exactly like Frost was, a good Steelers but a poor and unpredictable footballer. Even May said as much when interviewed last year. Paraphrasing but May essentially said he spends more time trying to bark orders to position Smith than he does playing on his own opponent as Smith is not coachable. He also feels less confident leaving his own man as he doesn’t trust Smith to beat his. 

Smith either plays as a forward, a sub, or not at all. Tomlinson should be in his place in defence.

Why,

Why,

Why...

 

would we put May up forward?

6 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

100% this. Smith is a liability in defense. He’s exactly like Frost was, a good Steelers but a poor and unpredictable footballer. Even May said as much when interviewed last year. Paraphrasing but May essentially said he spends more time trying to bark orders to position Smith than he does playing on his own opponent as Smith is not coachable. He also feels less confident leaving his own man as he doesn’t trust Smith to beat his. 

Smith either plays as a forward, a sub, or not at all. Tomlinson should be in his place in defence.

Which is exactly what was happening in that first half yesterday, leading to May trying to zone rather than play 1v1, and we got caught out.

Edited August 7, 20231 yr by A F

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

From my recollection it can be pretty decient.  He is usually trying to snag them on the edge of his distance from outside 50.  The the time I remember we played him for any time as a true forward was against Freo in 2020 up in Darwin, where he kicked a few quick fire goals and nearly won us the game.

Still I can't see Goodwin wanting to unsettle both ends of the ground at once, so I suspect May stays back, except perhaps in a break glass type situation if we are well down in a final, but even then, I think Goodies record is that he's hesitant and generally too slow to give something like this a try until it's too late.

Decent or deficient?

Either way May is the key leader of  our team defence - cannot see in any way he would be moved forward 

Even Shack would be a better option. 

2 hours ago, wisedog said:

I think we also forget how young Petty is. He was only 19 in 2019 so his output was actually quite promising for a key position player of his age. Usually, we have patience with our key position players as we know they take time. We don’t really expect JVR to do any more than kick a goal a game because we’re aware he’s young and developing.

If McDonald hadn’t been so dominant in those years or if Tomlinson hadn’t been injured in 2021, he may have developed as a forward. But who knows? Maybe the years spent as a defender have given him the insights to be a more complete player.

Whether or not he can get back this year. He’ll still only be 24 next season and ready to tear it up for another 6 years at least.

 

 

Not doubting any of that, but the reason he hasn't done it often is because he has shown he is AA style defender.  May only has a couple more seasons in him at best and we have a top 15 draft pick in the VFL who is a key forward.

Like I said he is fine for what we need now, but I don't see him staying there

28 minutes ago, A F said:

Which is exactly what was happening in that first half yesterday, leading to May trying to zone rather than play 1v1, and we got caught out.

It also happened the last few weeks with Tomlinson, and happens when May is worried about McVee too. Really it’s happened at every team line up apart from prime 2021 backline where May had faith in Petty and Hibbo. 

At some stage May trying to do too much is the problem. 

Smith wasn’t perfect yesterday, he rushed up at one stage that wasn’t needed and had that dropped mark (that was clearly a mark) in the goal square but he also looked more reliable one on one than May and Lever who both were stuffing up.

And that’s without mentioning the deer in the headlights routine that happens when May has the ball and his awful kick outs.

Moving May forward would be absolute last resort, but we aren’t far off having to consider last resorts.

There’s at least a chance Tom McDonald takes CHF and we have to swing May and McDonald in game to chase a lead. 

I would consider giving Josh Schache one last chance with Harry Petty being injured.

The problem with Josh Schache is he is just not aggressive enough at the ball. He seems far too laid back and doesn't show enough vigour for my liking as well.

Matthew Jefferson is probably an option next year once he develops a bit more and builds up a bigger and stronger body. At this stage he is too raw and skinny.

3 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I would consider giving Josh Schache one last chance with Harry Petty being injured.

The problem with Josh Schache is he is just not aggressive enough at the ball. He seems far too laid back and doesn't show enough vigour for my liking as well.

Matthew Jefferson is probably an option next year once he develops a bit more and builds up a bigger and stronger body. At this stage he is too raw and skinny.

T Mac due back this week so he's in the medium term mix.

Agree on Jefferson but in a break glass environment he's not that far off. If he was paired with Petty maybe but he and JVR... cannot see it

Do we know when Fritsch is back?

I’d run Thommo down back, so he had a bad game or two, he’s not alone there but has also had some very good games. Smith up fwd, then for the preliminary should we make it, obviously based on form but Smith back to defence and Petty back fwd.

To paraphrase Willy Nelson

He is gone
But he was here
And his presence is still heavy in the air
Oh what a taste
Of forward love
Now he’s gone and it don't matter anymore

It's interesting to reflect our 2021 GF forward line consisted of

Key forwards / resting ruck:  Tmac, BBB and Jackson

Mid sized forwards: Fritsch

Small forwards / resting mids: Kozzie, ANB, Spargo, Sparrow

 

On current form / selection, Spargo is replaced by Chandler.  I'm assuming Petty doesn't make it back for finals but Fritsch does.

On balance I think one of BBB / Grundy / Tmac? will make the finals team.  My reason being that I don't think we'd go with a forwardline of JVR with aerial support from Smith, Fritsch and Melksham - we'd be a bit undersized.

However, it largely comes down to ball movement (which has a lot to do with pressure, fitness, gut running and skill execution).  I wouldn't be against going with a smaller more nimble line-up this weekend against the blues to see how it goes.

My hunch is the blues pressure (since they've started winning) is actually very good and may force us to bomb forward which is unlikely to be effective when our only big target is a young key forward in his first season in the AFL.  Having said that, none of BBB, Grundy or Tmac are competitive types in a pack - they are better on the lead (BBB), when it hits the ground (Grundy) or coming third man up (TMac).  

There is a 0% chance we move May forward. Make that -10% chance. 

The most likely scenario is Smith forward, Tomlinson back in (although perhaps we only play 2 talls against Carlton and keep Hibbo in against their plethora of dangerous smalls).

Followed by the next most likely scenario which is Grundy, followed by a miraculous recovery from Tmac or BB, followed by Schache, followed by Jefferson, followed by playing Petty with an amputated foot, followed by putting Kosi on the shoulders of Melksham, followed by May playing forward. 

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Do we know when Fritsch is back? 

I believe the inside word is the Sydney game. 

Petty's stretch and one touch grab is insane isn't it. Very impressive indeed.

This is a big call but on the small glimpse I've seen and with a full summer training with the forward I cannot see why he can't kick 40 plus goals next year.

45 minutes ago, OutOfTheCentre21 said:

I believe the inside word is the Sydney game. 

That would be awesome, also I’ll be there for that game.

47 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Petty's stretch and one touch grab is insane isn't it. Very impressive indeed.

This is a big call but on the small glimpse I've seen and with a full summer training with the forward I cannot see why he can't kick 40 plus goals next year.

Don't forget his accurate kicking

21 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

Don't forget his accurate kicking

Correct!

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Petty's stretch and one touch grab is insane isn't it. Very impressive indeed.

This is a big call but on the small glimpse I've seen and with a full summer training with the forward I cannot see why he can't kick 40 plus goals next year.

Not a big call at all mate. He just needs to play a full bloody season please.

His marking and his accurate kicking means he's going to get 3-5 chances a game at least.