On 25/09/2023 at 23:11, WalkingCivilWar said:

Good on Jack for receiving 24 votes, every one of them well-deserved. Interestingly, he wasn’t invited to attend last night. Gussy was but he blew it off and Jack went in his place. 

Found this story about why Gus did not go interesting.  https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl-angus-brayshaw-fiancee-sad-development-brownlow-medal-003552959.html

 

If you look at the final leader board minus Neale you would say the Umps haven't done a bad job " take away the fact that only midfielders get votes" but it's the games where players do and don't get votes that is staggering. 

  On 25/09/2023 at 22:29, Jibroni said:

I'm sure the boys at Sportbet will be liking there chops this morning, very few would have predicted Lochie Neale.

Would be nice to have coaches/captains do the voting but there is no chance of that happening.

Allowing gambling into the game was the beginning of the end.

  On 25/09/2023 at 14:13, WalkingCivilWar said:

Awesome! Every person who attends a W match is worth 50 people attending a men’s match. I think. Maths is not my forte, but you get my point. 😊

Sounds like the American voting system.

Imagine how much daicos would have won by if he hadn't got injured.

Neale is an outstanding footballer and any team would love him, but 2023 was not a Brownlow-worthy year. He is now a dual Brownlow winner, which puts him in the category of Ablett jnr, Fyffe, and Robert Harvey. Sorry, he is just not in the same class as those three. 

I cannot understand how Cripps got 22 votes (and I am not a Cripps hater), he just did not have that good a year.

Gulden not getting 3 votes in the Dees v Sydney game is a farce. 

I am really glad that Gulden and Noah Anderson piled on the votes late in the vote count, nearly embarrassing the AFL and the gushing commentary of channel 7. They were given little air play, and no dramatic pausing by Gil until the producers realised "sh*t, we'd better do something to show some respect to these two, they might win it!".

Interesting that some backmen finally got some vote recognition, but still not enough. 

Gawn - 7 votes. Is he too tall for the umps to notice?

I actually feel sorry for Nick Daicos. All that media hype and brown-nosing, they wouldn't leave the poor kid alone. And he had to sit there with the camera up his nose knowing that someone would likely overtake him. Channel 7 ought to be flogged and burnt for the way they over exposed him. 

And lastly, I feel very sorry for Bont and Trac. Great footballers, great people, who don't catch the umpires eyes sometimes when they are matchwinners. Not sure how this works. Bont should have romped in this year over Daicos, with the others a step behind.

  On 25/09/2023 at 23:33, dees189227 said:

Imagine how much daicos would have won by if he hadn't got injured.

Or Trac if he had not had to go forward. Going forward is like not playing to the Umps.

If the Cripps suspension stood last year Neale would be a 3 time winner 😂

  On 25/09/2023 at 23:42, YearOfTheDees said:

Or Trac if he had not had to go forward. Going forward is like not playing to the Umps.

Or if Clarry and Viney weren't taking votes off him.

  On 25/09/2023 at 23:37, Maldonboy38 said:

Neale is an outstanding footballer and any team would love him, but 2023 was not a Brownlow-worthy year. He is now a dual Brownlow winner, which puts him in the category of Ablett jnr, Fyffe, and Robert Harvey. Sorry, he is just not in the same class as those three. 

I cannot understand how Cripps got 22 votes (and I am not a Cripps hater), he just did not have that good a year.

Gulden not getting 3 votes in the Dees v Sydney game is a farce. 

I am really glad that Gulden and Noah Anderson piled on the votes late in the vote count, nearly embarrassing the AFL and the gushing commentary of channel 7. They were given little air play, and no dramatic pausing by Gil until the producers realised "sh*t, we'd better do something to show some respect to these two, they might win it!".

Interesting that some backmen finally got some vote recognition, but still not enough. 

Gawn - 7 votes. Is he too tall for the umps to notice?

I actually feel sorry for Nick Daicos. All that media hype and brown-nosing, they wouldn't leave the poor kid alone. And he had to sit there with the camera up his nose knowing that someone would likely overtake him. Channel 7 ought to be flogged and burnt for the way they over exposed him. 

And lastly, I feel very sorry for Bont and Trac. Great footballers, great people, who don't catch the umpires eyes sometimes when they are matchwinners. Not sure how this works. Bont should have romped in this year over Daicos, with the others a step behind.

Trac kicks a goal against Carlton in a last minute debacle and he wins the Brownlow.

  On 25/09/2023 at 23:33, dees189227 said:

Imagine how much daicos would have won by if he hadn't got injured.

… or imagine how many of his votes wouldn’t have counted had he copped a week for punching Blake Acres in the stomach earlier this year. Wait, what am I saying… he was never gonna be suspended. He could’ve Maynard’d someone and he’d get off coz Daicos. And coz Collingwood. 

  On 26/09/2023 at 00:11, Willmoy1947 said:

Trac kicks a goal against Carlton in a last minute debacle and he wins the Brownlow.after that Carlton game, I thought to myself, I bet that bs score review costs Trac the Brownlow :/

  On 25/09/2023 at 23:07, leave it to deever said:

He was actually quite self deprecating about it.

I felt sorry for him. He looked so uncomfortable at the dais. He even said winning it “didn’t sit well” with him. It speaks to his character.

If only Trac could lift his goal kicking accuracry above 50% we'd almost not lose any games...and he'd win the brownlow! 

BTW, great effort for Trac and JV to combine for 50 votes, did a pair from any other club accomplish that? 

Best count for some time but it's a disgrace that it's so midfielder centric. May saves us 5 goals every game and got a pitiful handful of votes. 

  On 26/09/2023 at 00:19, WalkingCivilWar said:

… or imagine how many of his votes wouldn’t have counted had he copped a week for punching Blake Acres in the stomach earlier this year. Wait, what am I saying… he was never gonna be suspended. He could’ve Maynard’d someone and he’d get off coz Daicos. And coz Collingwood. 

The problem with the Daicos gravy train is the bigger the rise the bigger the fall.

They lose Sat and it doesn't matter how good the family name is/getting.

And for that matter "attention" is coming and it will start Saturday and will not end....

  On 26/09/2023 at 00:29, Dee*ceiving said:

If only Trac could lift his goal kicking accuracry above 50% we'd almost not lose any games...and he'd win the brownlow! 

Field kicking as well.
Same goes for Oliver.

They're both get ball, boot ball.
I realise that seems to be the game plan but a little more precision would be great.

  On 26/09/2023 at 00:37, Willmoy1947 said:

 And for that matter "attention" is coming and it will start Saturday and will not end....

It started during the year.
The good sides know how to diminish his impact.
The Lions will sit someone on him for sure.
Can't let a bloke like that wander around the ground doing what he wants.

  On 26/09/2023 at 00:29, Dee*ceiving said:

 

Best count for some time but it's a disgrace that it's so midfielder centric. May saves us 5 goals every game and got a pitiful handful of votes. 

 

  On 25/09/2023 at 23:37, Maldonboy38 said:

And lastly, I feel very sorry for Bont and Trac. Great footballers, great people, who don't catch the umpires eyes sometimes when they are matchwinners. Not sure how this works. Bont should have romped in this year over Daicos, with the others a step behind.

Fair summary by maldon, its a flawed award. Diacos is a very good player but more of a catches the eye player than outstanding like Bont. 

I'd really like to see the backs recognised in a proper way, there have been many who have literally saved games but get no votes.

Pleased for Viney who had a great year as well. 

 

  On 26/09/2023 at 00:46, Robbie57 said:

Pleased for Viney who had a great year as well. 

 

yes and the best part of the viewing was seeing the Dees table with Max, Trac and Clarry all sitting side by side at the table, max smirking , looking like they were enjoying themselves in the spotlight. Their partners i suspect were perched on the other side of the table.

I thought how lucky we are to watch this generational team?  Viney as well, with Lever.

Now for 2024 boys.

The result of the Brownlow voting by the umpires might be anomalous compared with the other so called expert awards but, and this is a big but, they are only ones who can see how hard the players are working on the field. It is an award for fairest and best, not for accumulating possessions, and should rightly go to a player who strives the hardest for each possession.

Coaches award votes for the impact on the result which is why, for example, defenders can often win votes for a minimal possession defensive role. This sort of analysis is beyond the umpires on the field and it is no wonder that it throws up different results.

The so called expert awards in the media also appear to be slanted towards favourite or prominent players whose stats sheets are overflowing but who might not have worked as hard or made much of a difference. Think about the "ring-a-rosy" in the backlines that often can inflate stats that have no meaning.

For all the criticism of the umpires voting, there have been no undeserving players (duds) who have won and, in any given year, there are many players who would qualify. There is an element of luck in the result especially when a team has many potential vote winners every week eg Melbourne's Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Gawn.

My own preference would be for a system that selects which player had the most influence on a result (similar to the coaches award) but I acknowledge that this would be too hard to determine by a group of independent umpires in the short time frame after a match.

Leave it alone because there is no demonstratively better system

 

Said in an article that the top six vote getters were also top 6 in the coaches award...but that's just confirmation bias, with umpires ticking off the box beside the big name players. 

Can someone please explain to me which umps actually give the votes. It can't be the officiating ones surely?

Aren't they too busy umpiring? Oh wait.

Edited September 26, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

A fair result

Cripps & Viney also polled well above expectations

But the player with the most clearances and 2nd in contested possessions wins the award.  Fair enough

And be careful what you wish for with regards to the umpires not voting on the award ... do we really want biased, dishonest, unfair, compromised people voting on the award?  People like Buckley, Cornes & Robbo?

No thanks

Leave it as it is but I do agree that the stats should be given to the umpires as a guide

Mind you, I've seen plenty of 15 or 20 possession games being the standout and equally, plenty of high possession games having a low impact

The umpires may be placing a high emphasis on clearances & contested possessions (Neale, Cripps, Viney etc)

Edited September 26, 20231 yr by Macca

Just for interest, these are the "anomalous" votes between the coaches and the umpires.

In round 14, Jason Horne-Francis had 13 possessions. Must have got a lot straight out of the middle.

  On 26/09/2023 at 01:21, tiers said:

The result of the Brownlow voting by the umpires might be anomalous compared with the other so called expert awards but, and this is a big but, they are only ones who can see how hard the players are working on the field. It is an award for fairest and best, not for accumulating possessions, and should rightly go to a player who strives the hardest for each possession.

Coaches award votes for the impact on the result which is why, for example, defenders can often win votes for a minimal possession defensive role. This sort of analysis is beyond the umpires on the field and it is no wonder that it throws up different results.

The so called expert awards in the media also appear to be slanted towards favourite or prominent players whose stats sheets are overflowing but who might not have worked as hard or made much of a difference. Think about the "ring-a-rosy" in the backlines that often can inflate stats that have no meaning.

For all the criticism of the umpires voting, there have been no undeserving players (duds) who have won and, in any given year, there are many players who would qualify. There is an element of luck in the result especially when a team has many potential vote winners every week eg Melbourne's Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Gawn.

My own preference would be for a system that selects which player had the most influence on a result (similar to the coaches award) but I acknowledge that this would be too hard to determine by a group of independent umpires in the short time frame after a match.

Leave it alone because there is no demonstratively better system

 

Well constructed argument however we should note in years gone by players from many positions would win the award and much fewer umpires on the ground