On 12/07/2023 at 23:38, A F said:

Yep, Smith. Chandler was dropped, but IMO he'll be in the FDs best 22 for the finals. Likewise, Spargo.

Poor Joel. Hope they don’t single him out in team meetings… 

‘oh look who it is - Mr Omitted!’

‘He won’t be in the 26 that plays come finals…’

  On 12/07/2023 at 23:53, rpfc said:

Poor Joel. Hope they don’t single him out in team meetings… 

‘oh look who it is - Mr Omitted!’

‘He won’t be in the 26 that plays come finals…’

It's a squad mentality though, right, so an injury or two and suddenly he's in the 22 for finals.

  On 12/07/2023 at 23:52, A F said:

I doubt that would have been proposition that would have sold Grundy though. I hope we have an ace up our sleeve in terms of making this work, but let's see.

FWIW, I don't think it's been a failure either, a huge win in many respects. How would we have gone without Grundy when Max went down? But there's no doubt we'd like to get more dominance from both.

The ideal would have been Gawn or Grundy playing complete forward 50 role, but that just hasn't happened. Hopefully this shows some promising flexibility from Goody. It's also likely Grundy has some more years left compared to Gawn (just by my eye test), so we have a back up AA ruck if/when Gawn retires. 

  On 12/07/2023 at 22:46, A F said:

What it means is we want to manage another of our players, just like we've managed Hibbo, JVR, Chandler, BB and Spargo, and even Bowey. Now it's Grundy's turn, so he's fresh for Adelaide.

Spargo managed LOL

Edited July 13, 20231 yr by picket fence

  On 12/07/2023 at 23:13, rpfc said:

Can people get dropped anymore?

No, rpfc. No they can’t. Even in matters other than footy. For example, I didn’t drop/dump my ex. He was being managed for a while then unfortunately in September last year he was delisted. 😁 I told him not to hang up his boots just yet since he’s not too old to be picked up by another club. 😁

Call it what you like but Grundy has been dropped. You can't drop your captain. Unlike some, I think this whole Gawn/Grundy thing has been a failure tbh and I was quite sceptical from the get-go. I understand why they tried it to preserve Max but it hasn't worked properly for whatever reasons. You just need to think of it from an expected output/wages paid perspective. Both excellent ruckmen, both probably past their peak. Both were never a forward apart from the odd cameo from Max. I do hope they find a way to make it work but it takes away from our forwardline. Obviously an injury to either means we get a good ruckmen replacement in the team.

What I don't understand is some of Goodwins selection decisions and we all know he does love to play favourites. Tomlinson, Petty, Harmes, Spargo.....dropping of JVR when he was averaging 1.4gls a game, bringing Ben Brown in in sloggy wet conditions when he isn't the most mobile, playing JVR without any help - now probably bringing him back after a poor game at Casey last week.

I think dropping Grundy is the final straw they had to pull to try get our forwardline some structure, finals isnt far away and we need to be settled. The club needs to find a way quick smart and stick with it. We need to go find/buy a decent KPF this year. 

Edited July 13, 20231 yr by SFebes

I don't care whether we list Grundy as rested, managed, omitted, injured, unavailable or anything else, the fact is that the two rucks experiment isn't working, hasn't worked all year and won't work in the finals. We need to push on without Grundy in the team and find a combination that does work. If he is upset by this, bad luck - he hasn't held up his end of the bargain this year.

As I posted last week, I would play JVR and Brown as permanent forwards, with Schache to play as a roaming forward / back up ruck. That probably doesn't leave room for Melksham, so either he or Smith should be the sub. Neither is part of our future, so I'm not desperate to get games into these players at this time of the year.

Our small forwards are a major problem, but surely Chandler has been marginally less ordinary than Spargo and offers more upside.

I would strongly consider playing Dunstan this week as well, with Jordon to come out of the midfield group.

 

  On 13/07/2023 at 00:37, poita said:

I don't care whether we list Grundy as rested, managed, omitted, injured, unavailable or anything else, the fact is that the two rucks experiment isn't working, hasn't worked all year and won't work in the finals. We need to push on without Grundy in the team and find a combination that does work. If he is upset by this, bad luck - he hasn't held up his end of the bargain this year.

As I posted last week, I would play JVR and Brown as permanent forwards, with Schache to play as a roaming forward / back up ruck. That probably doesn't leave room for Melksham, so either he or Smith should be the sub. Neither is part of our future, so I'm not desperate to get games into these players at this time of the year.

Our small forwards are a major problem, but surely Chandler has been marginally less ordinary than Spargo and offers more upside.

I would strongly consider playing Dunstan this week as well, with Jordon to come out of the midfield group.

 

Yes to Dunstan. Particularly against Brisbane, who don't have the quickest mids.

With regards to Grundy, a week ago he was Champion Data's All Australia starting ruck, so it isn't all that bad. 

You need to take a few different looks before the finals. I don't think it's a clear-cut omission. 

Plenty of narrative going around that 2 rucks don’t work. How many rucks did we play in 2021?

  On 13/07/2023 at 00:37, poita said:

I don't care whether we list Grundy as rested, managed, omitted, injured, unavailable or anything else, the fact is that the two rucks experiment isn't working, hasn't worked all year and won't work in the finals. We need to push on without Grundy in the team and find a combination that does work. If he is upset by this, bad luck - he hasn't held up his end of the bargain this year.

As I posted last week, I would play JVR and Brown as permanent forwards, with Schache to play as a roaming forward / back up ruck. That probably doesn't leave room for Melksham, so either he or Smith should be the sub. Neither is part of our future, so I'm not desperate to get games into these players at this time of the year.

Our small forwards are a major problem, but surely Chandler has been marginally less ordinary than Spargo and offers more upside.

I would strongly consider playing Dunstan this week as well, with Jordon to come out of the midfield group.

 

Schache and Dunstan in, Jordon out. Consider a stand-up comedy career. 

Gawn and Grundy is no different to Gawn and Jackson. We’ve played two rucks for years and Grundys output this year has been superior to Jackson’s output with us. 

Grundy has been our best ruckman this year. It would be strange to drop the better performing player, but I get you can’t drop your captain. Grundy hasn’t been incredible either, but he’s been serviceable and will be our ruckman after Gawn retires. The transition has already begun. This issue is that Gawn has fallen off a cliff compared to his past 8 years and currently doesn’t deserve his place in the team on output. Whether that’s himself as a player or the role the coaches have put him in, his form is the issue. Gawn is best as a ruckman who then plays behind the ball intercepting. Grundy is best as a mobile ruckman linking up around the ground. Neither is competent as a tall forward. The coaches haven’t found a solution, but need to look at the strengths of both and ditch the forward experiment. Personally, I’d try Gawn in defense seeing as we play a zone and throw Petty forward to pair with BBrown or JVR. 

We’re getting to crunch time now and the coaches need to find an answer quickly or we’ve wasted a second year in a row of a brilliant lists peak years.

Well, I guess that puts an end to the Goody is stubborn narrative.

I actually know it won't because many on here are more stubborn.

....but to drop Grundy is a big move, a stubborn coach would have gone down with the ship.

  On 13/07/2023 at 00:46, Melb16 said:

Plenty of narrative going around that 2 rucks don’t work. How many rucks did we play in 2021?

Yes and how many are the ladder leaders playing? Cox and Cameron aren’t much different to our combo.

We haven’t lost games because of our rucks, we have lost quite a few games simply because of poor disposal and poor goal kicking accuracy.

Whatever we do game by game, Grundy has kept Max fresher than in other years and that has to be a plus.

I could actually see Grundy smashing packs and playing well in finals.

I have no problem with Grundy being rested.  We should have been resting senior players throughout 2022 and it cost us big time on September.

Max has had plenty of weeks off this year and needs a proper run.  If we’re rewarding consistent form, Schache should come in to play second ruck/forward.

 

  On 12/07/2023 at 22:18, Lucifers Hero said:

Interesting if Grundy can't play two back to back games on a 6 day break immediately after he has had 3 x 10 day breaks between games.  Can he be that unfit...

If he had an injury wouldn't we just say so rather than risk having his fitness called into question.

...tending to agree with others that we are trying a one man ruck again.

I would characterize it as it being fatigued, not unfit. 

Posters were screaming this time last last year for Goody to take a squad mentality and freshen up players when needed. And that is exactly what Goody is doing this season - not that he is getting much credit for doing so. 

It is important to remember that fitness is iterative - Grundy missed a huge part of the 2022 season. And as as the club said preseason, has work to do to get back to his optimal aerobic levels. With Maxy's injury, Grundy has done a power of work this season, and probably more work than they had planned for when designing his individual program. 

So it makes perfect sense that he might need a chop out right about now. If he does need a chop out (just as was the case for Hibbo a few week back, and JVR, Chandler and Spargs more recently),it is smart by the club to manage Grundy.

In my opinion, there is zero chance Grundy is not in our best 22 and if not in this week, will be back in soon enough and 100% will be in our finals team. Book mark it.

Edited July 13, 20231 yr by binman

The biggest issue with the Gawn/Grundy combo, is that we want one of them to play forward, and neither are forwards. At 29 and 31, that is not going to change. You just have to move on from that idea. We never played Gawn or Jackson as permanent forwards, so why are we insisting to do it with Gawn and Grundy?

Gawn dropping back is where he excels, and providing the outlet from half back.

Grundy needs to use his strength at ground level to play as an extra mid. He can't do that if he's absolutely buggered, so it's not a bad time to give him a week off to freshen up ahead of playing a fast moving Adelaide. 

But neither are forwards, and the more we try to make them something they are not, the more we will suffer.

Edited July 13, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

  On 12/07/2023 at 22:46, A F said:

What it means is we want to manage another of our players, just like we've managed Hibbo, JVR, Chandler, BB and Spargo, and even Bowey. Now it's Grundy's turn, so he's fresh for Adelaide.

Spot on. 

  On 12/07/2023 at 23:14, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Cats did go on a 16-0 run including the GF while resting players, we are.. not quite in the midst of a 16-0 run

And your point is?

  On 13/07/2023 at 01:10, Redleg said:

Yes and how many are the ladder leaders playing? Cox and Cameron aren’t much different to our combo.

We haven’t lost games because of our rucks, we have lost quite a few games simply because of poor disposal and poor goal kicking accuracy.

Whatever we do game by game, Grundy has kept Max fresher than in other years and that has to be a plus.

I could actually see Grundy smashing packs and playing well in finals.

There's a massive difference between Grundy/Gawn and Cox/Cameron. Cox and Cameron are both competent up forward, and are not surrounded by tall forwards. There's a reason the Pies were happy to let Grundy go aside from his contract.

Some ruckmen need to be on the ball for a 100% of their gametime to be effective. That's the case with Gawn and Grundy. 

Max is having his worst year in ages, so I don't buy the argument that playing Grundy keeps Max fresh.

I would have rested Grundy this week by selecting him and then having him as a late withdrawal to retain the element of surprise.

That is assuming we’re not breaking any AFL rules by pulling a swifty. 

  On 12/07/2023 at 22:10, rpfc said:

This FD needs an honest review of itself at the end of the year if the above means what I think it means.

I, and others, said before we picked him up that it’s a lot to invest in the ruck position.

err he replace Jackson and is costing us less than what Jackson would have cost.

  On 13/07/2023 at 01:15, binman said:

And your point is?

My point is they rested players and kept winning, I don’t think they would’ve rested anyone prior to a top 4 clash had they needed to win to keep a buffer on their top 4 spot.

I know your theories and I’m open to them, but I’ll believe it when I see the results, until then it feels a little copey 

  On 13/07/2023 at 00:34, WalkingCivilWar said:

No, rpfc. No they can’t. Even in matters other than footy. For example, I didn’t drop/dump my ex. He was being managed for a while then unfortunately in September last year he was delisted. 😁 I told him not to hang up his boots just yet since he’s not too old to be picked up by another club. 😁

Thanks WCW. Yes, I was also managed by a woman in my early twenties that I so don’t think about from time to time with a sad cringe. 

I WAS MANAGED, not dumped.

 

  On 12/07/2023 at 23:14, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Cats did go on a 16-0 run including the GF while resting players, we are.. not quite in the midst of a 16-0 run

we could be 1 game in to a 16-0 run through the GF.

Just sayin....

 

  On 13/07/2023 at 01:24, jnrmac said:

err he replace Jackson and is costing us less than what Jackson would have cost.

Jackson will be around for a decade post Gawn.