I hope we give a young guy an opportunity next week. Woewodin or Laurie and no Harmes. Fritsch out, JVR in. Dry track, big win against the saints and we're good to go........oh wait a minute :(

I'm the furthest thing from an expert you'll find on this site but basing your game on creating forward half turnovers means you're inevitably kicking into a heavily congested forward line where pinpoint passing to a target can be so important, particularly in challenging conditions. In contrast a clearly inferior opposition fed off our scraps and on the few occasions they got out the back had a paddock to run into. I get more frustrated by really cheap misses early like Fritta today and Joel Smith last week. This game could have been over before it ever became an arm wrestle. 

1 minute ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I'm the furthest thing from an expert you'll find on this site but basing your game on creating forward half turnovers means you're inevitably kicking into a heavily congested forward line where pinpoint passing to a target can be so important, particularly in challenging conditions. In contrast a clearly inferior opposition fed off our scraps and on the few occasions they got out the back had a paddock to run into. I get more frustrated by really cheap misses early like Fritta today and Joel Smith last week. This game could have been over before it ever became an arm wrestle. 

Totally agree with you. It was incredibly frustrating! 

3 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I'm the furthest thing from an expert you'll find on this site but basing your game on creating forward half turnovers means you're inevitably kicking into a heavily congested forward line where pinpoint passing to a target can be so important, particularly in challenging conditions. In contrast a clearly inferior opposition fed off our scraps and on the few occasions they got out the back had a paddock to run into. I get more frustrated by really cheap misses early like Fritta today and Joel Smith last week. This game could have been over before it ever became an arm wrestle. 

This 

6 minutes ago, CHF said:

I will get kicked for this but I would drop either Gawn or Grundy and bring in JVR to play a Jackson like role.

Not by me. The last two weeks playing two big slow rucks in the wet has been horrible. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Why was JVR dropped?

Because Ben Brown is such an awesome wet weather ground ball forward.

With 6 minutes to go and we were about 3 points up I watched Smith get taken off and Ben Brown go back on in inclement weather.

I'm really not having a go at either player.

I just don't understand why you would put a prawn trawler back on the ground in those conditions with the game in the balance.

Why would a coach sitting on the bench make that call?

Our forward line setup has looked like Auskick for the last two seasons.

Today we were +27 inside 50's; +19 clearances and +42 contested possessions.  Since 2012 teams with +25, +15 and +40 before today were 10 wins and 0 losses and 9 of the wins had been by greater than 50 points.  So in a nutshell, that's how well and how badly we managed to play all in the one afternoon.

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

No he has massive upside imv Leuc.

But whatever's happening this year has seen him regress in small forward craft and has also seen Chandler hit the wall with his development.

Very sad to watch.  They should both be up and about every other week vs both dropping away for weeks on end.

They both just need the right guidance, structure up forward.  Plus method of play to match what is happening up field and visa versa.

For whatever reason we have stagnated and in some ways regressing backwards now.

We are potentially watching the demise of a team that had at least one more shot at the big one, now going down the gurglar as the coach & FD appear to be incapable of mid/forward connection / cohesion nor improving forward craft & finish.

There's only so many times the backs/mids can get the ball in there.  At some point the forwards have to perform at a minimum level and convert at a reasonable level, consistently!

Spotlight also needs to be placed on Tracc, Hunter, Sparrow & ANB.  Their forward work is atrocious.  Gus probably needs a mention also.

Having said that i counted two hit up leads today.  One from Nibbler to Kozzy.  The other from Brown to Melk.  But that was it as far as connection went.

Too many hackers forward of center incapable of finishing, and many that have the finish in them are playing poorly.  Otherwise we would be winning vs Dockers, Cats & GWS.

Time to sit the mids & forwards down plus the line coaches and coach and sort this rubbish out.  If they don't it'll be another season wasted.

It's disgraceful how this problem has been allowed to endure. You could just see how this game was going to unfold. We keep losing the same way over and over, especially bad when it's teams we should be expecting to win. Selection is always conservative and safe. Stafford surely can't keep his job he obviously has NFI. This game plan has been in slow but steady decline since the middle of last year, the forward line problems even earlier even though we were winning.

25 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I'm the furthest thing from an expert you'll find on this site but basing your game on creating forward half turnovers means you're inevitably kicking into a heavily congested forward line where pinpoint passing to a target can be so important, particularly in challenging conditions. In contrast a clearly inferior opposition fed off our scraps and on the few occasions they got out the back had a paddock to run into. I get more frustrated by really cheap misses early like Fritta today and Joel Smith last week. This game could have been over before it ever became an arm wrestle. 

Think you'll find you're far closer to expert than those taking coin to be so ;) 

I think Goody needs to change some of his assistants next year. Go and get Don Pyke, he knows how to setup a forward line, our current coaches have had years to sort out our forward woes and haven't, so I can't see them fixing it this year. The players try so hard, but the coaches only have 2 of the 3 phases of Aussie rules figured out. Also, Chocos kicking school needs to be sacked.

10 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Today we were +27 inside 50's; +19 clearances and +42 contested possessions.  Since 2012 teams with +25, +15 and +40 before today were 10 wins and 0 losses and 9 of the wins had been by greater than 50 points.  So in a nutshell, that's how well and how badly we managed to play all in the one afternoon.

This is soul destroying stuff. 

13 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Today we were +27 inside 50's; +19 clearances and +42 contested possessions.  Since 2012 teams with +25, +15 and +40 before today were 10 wins and 0 losses and 9 of the wins had been by greater than 50 points.  So in a nutshell, that's how well and how badly we managed to play all in the one afternoon.

Just curious.  Was the only team to have that dominance and not win by 50+ points also us?

4 minutes ago, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

I think Goody needs to change some of his assistants next year. Go and get Don Pyke, he knows how to setup a forward line, our current coaches have had years to sort out our forward woes and haven't, so I can't see them fixing it this year. The players try so hard, but the coaches only have 2 of the 3 phases of Aussie rules figured out. Also, Chocos kicking school needs to be sacked.

The assistants are only implementing the Head Coach's game.

 Changing assistants accomplishes nothing.

50 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Yep, we would have to have the most congested forward line in the comp. Crowded, no movement and when our small forwards get it they’ve got no room to do anything. 
Gawn/Grundy are just clogging it up, get them back out onto the wing so the opposition has to kick it to them or around them to get out and make some space for the forwards. 

I think that's a big part of the deplorable conversion rate. 

There just is no room for anyone to 

A. Mark it

B. When it hits the ground to have the room to cleanly kick at the goals.

I swear the large majority of entries have at least 10 of our players clogged in our forward line.

This is not a new problem.

We've been this way generally for the last two seasons.

Why wait until we've thrown away another failed finals campaign to bring in another forwards coach.

Do it now.

If I see another highlight reel of players doing trick shots from the boundary and I'm going to get all vomitty

It's just another one of those cases where we don't know and are just morons watching on from the cheap seats.

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

The assistants are only implementing the Head Coach's game.

 Changing assistants accomplishes nothing.

Richmond changed their assistants for the 2017 season. 3 flags followed.

13 minutes ago, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

I think Goody needs to change some of his assistants next year. Go and get Don Pyke, he knows how to setup a forward line, our current coaches have had years to sort out our forward woes and haven't, so I can't see them fixing it this year. The players try so hard, but the coaches only have 2 of the 3 phases of Aussie rules figured out. Also, Chocos kicking school needs to be sacked.

Goodwin has a contract for next year?

19 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Today we were +27 inside 50's; +19 clearances and +42 contested possessions.  Since 2012 teams with +25, +15 and +40 before today were 10 wins and 0 losses and 9 of the wins had been by greater than 50 points.  So in a nutshell, that's how well and how badly we managed to play all in the one afternoon.

That is a horrible indictment on our coaching staff. I hope someone tells the CEO and the President those stats.

I would imagine some of our line coaches are very, very nervous. We win everywhere but where it counts too often, and even when we do win it’s far too much effort for far too little reward. Today was a stark example, but it was also very similar to our problems circa 17-18. The balance is off.

I think this is why neutral commentary around us seems biased against. We do all the hard, boring things so well, and the polished, eye catching things terribly.

4 minutes ago, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

Chocos kicking school needs to be sacked.

I've noticed that the kicking goals schools methods and drills change week in week out. He appears to have the mindset, that stimulation comes from variations. I reckon he needs to go back to early on in the season when particular drills got results. If I was them, I would get Williams to take over the entire forward line. Let Stafford handle the rucks in the defensive, mid and forward work.

That forward structure is not working. When the GWS can get many uncontested intercepts marks, we can't find any separation, we compete in the air for the mark, the crumbers aren't hitting the packs from the right direction or even getting close to getting hands on the ball in space or kicking goals. 

An afternoon for the smalls, very disappointed in their execution. 

Backline and defence must be pulling their hair out, as they wonder why the forward zone is not building, buts needs rebuilding (in my opinion).

Loved our fight, the desperation and our backs. The mids did well except for the deliveries into the 50.

Goody needs to change something. 

7 minutes ago, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

Richmond changed their assistants for the 2017 season. 3 flags followed.

Forward coach at Richmond from 2017-2020 was Justin Leppitsch.  Collingwood are luck to have him as forward coach now.  Wish we had someone like him. 

8 minutes ago, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

Richmond changed their assistants for the 2017 season. 3 flags followed.

Hardwick was up for a change...  he realised his errors. He adopted a different tac , a different game. 

Goody doesnt change... we all see this.  Its odd really. He IS capable of alternative ideas in games..  somehow that all ( or nearly all ) gets left somewhere and the the same melbourne game rolls out week after week.

Id take Hardwick...happily

I just want to know how bad Fritsch’s injury is.

Well just back from Sunshine Coast after watching Grand Son play footy and taped the game. I don't think I will now watch it after seeing scores and comments on here however I did say in the pre-game thread that May will keep Hogan to zippo and Bedford will not hurt us and we will win by 10 goals. I was correct on 2 of them but forgot we haven't a forward line. You just can't lose with all the stats in your favour but we managed to. Oh for some players with skills.      

3 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I thought he was that big road train parked on the side of the field.

Why pick on Joel? He was as “good “ as the rest of the forwards. He had a go.

Can we  permanently drop Badloss and bring in Williams for the rest of the year?