It's pleasing to see the new MCC president Fred Oldfield appears to be a dyed in the wool Demon.

On receiving an email about his appointment I went looking for his football allegiance and found it in a real estate article concerning the sale of his (gulp...$10.5 million Malvern) home which included a picture of his sports bar complete with MFC flag, framed Demons jumper and team photo. (Detail attached.)

The MCC has not always been well disposed towards us and it was always a comfort when Steve Smith headed the joint but that's a few years back now. Despite our current comfortable position we need all the friends we can find.

Someone in the family must go for Carlton. 

Last sold for 1.3m in 1997.  25 years, 9 million dollars... so that's more than a full-time minimum wage 'earned' every year since buying it.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Fred Oldfield, but the general case for proletarian revolution is mounting.

Anyway, surely at that price he is more 'dyed in the silk' than the mere wool.

5 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Someone in the family must go for Carlton. 

I got it!! 🤣

Nice one! 

Edited December 18, 20222 yr by Graeme Yeats' Mullet

Great that he is a dee, but i suspect our relationship with the mcc is as fractured as ever and not sure whether there is any point being a sporting section as it doesn't translate to a financial contribution or facilities. 

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Last sold for 1.3m in 1997.  25 years, 9 million dollars... so that's more than a full-time minimum wage 'earned' every year since buying it.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Fred Oldfield, but the general case for proletarian revolution is mounting.

Anyway, surely at that price he is more 'dyed in the silk' than the mere wool.

Perhaps he put in a fair bit of $ towards a sizable  renovation/extension, and then there's the increase in price of real estate in general over 25 years. But I guess that doesn't fit your whinging proletariat narrative, does it...

I'm not a class driven person, but tall poppy syndrome mentality is tiresome to say the least  

12 hours ago, pitmaster said:

It's pleasing to see the new MCC president Fred Oldfield appears to be a dyed in the wool Demon.

On receiving an email about his appointment I went looking for his football allegiance and found it in a real estate article concerning the sale of his (gulp...$10.5 million Malvern) home which included a picture of his sports bar complete with MFC flag, framed Demons jumper and team photo. (Detail attached.)

The MCC has not always been well disposed towards us and it was always a comfort when Steve Smith headed the joint but that's a few years back now. Despite our current comfortable position we need all the friends we can find.

Did you say "joint" ?

9 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Anyway, surely at that price he is more 'dyed in the silk' than the mere wool.

Not if he draped it entirely in merino

6 hours ago, Gouga said:

Great that he is a dee, but i suspect our relationship with the mcc is as fractured as ever and not sure whether there is any point being a sporting section as it doesn't translate to a financial contribution or facilities. 

You "suspect" and are "not sure" Gouga so your comment wouldn't even pass the "Pub Test" let alone make it as evidence in a local court of law.

Re read your post Gouga and you are actually saying if you live in a cottage snd a two story mansion is next door  you are querying if it's any point in getting to know your neighbour unless he gives you a handsome monetary gift  or contributes with a fancy brick fence between your properties.

Yes times have changed but the 20,000 plus MCC members who barrack for the Dees are our biggest advantage and especially those with a MCC/MFC membership. 

Which of the below would you like to approach the MCC Chairman about if you were Kate Roffey?

1. Training/Admin facilities base in the revamped Shane Warne Stand in 2027?

2. Permission for use of the MCG to replace Goschs Paddock as our city based facility each week for pre and in season training sessions.

3. A seasonal $5 mill donation to MFC.

4. Each Of the 66,000 MFC members have a free one day per year experience in the MCC members reserve on a day to suit themselves including free eats and open bar package of four hours.

5. MCC donate an annual trophy for one of our players based on best MCC values 

Sorry for the cynicism but that's about  the level of contribution  your veiled post made to the topic. 

Good luck to Fred Oldfield in his position and let's just ensure as a start  our respective Clubs doors are open to talk when and where cooperative views or plans strengthen the MCC/MCG or Clubs objectives.

This In the unlikely happening of brown paper cash bags being left in our change rooms or not! 

11 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

Perhaps he put in a fair bit of $ towards a sizable  renovation/extension, and then there's the increase in price of real estate in general over 25 years. But I guess that doesn't fit your whinging proletariat narrative, does it...

I'm not a class driven person, but tall poppy syndrome mentality is tiresome to say the least  

For what it is worth, a $1m 'ordinary' portfolio of housing assets purchased in 1997 without improvement would by now have appreciated in price by even more than our mate Fred's little mansion.

The relationship between Australian housing prices and the differential access to and pricing of finance based on explicitly 'class' benchmarks enabling existing property owners to increase their paper assets, gain profit based on speculation in a tax-favoured environment while displacing all risk to tenants and to government is a textbook case study of 19th century theories of accelerating division of worker and owner into mutually hostile groups in an unfettered market system.

Hence, I made a little joke about proletarian revolution.

Also, calm your farm. Saying you're not a class driven person while going into thin-skinned snappy mode at an imagined slight upon your honour as a tall poppy is not very dignified.

 

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

For what it is worth, a $1m 'ordinary' portfolio of housing assets purchased in 1997 without improvement would by now have appreciated in price by even more than our mate Fred's little mansion.

The relationship between Australian housing prices and the differential access to and pricing of finance based on explicitly 'class' benchmarks enabling existing property owners to increase their paper assets, gain profit based on speculation in a tax-favoured environment while displacing all risk to tenants and to government is a textbook case study of 19th century theories of accelerating division of worker and owner into mutually hostile groups in an unfettered market system.

Hence, I made a little joke about proletarian revolution.

Also, calm your farm. Saying you're not a class driven person while going into thin-skinned snappy mode at an imagined slight upon your honour as a tall poppy is not very dignified.

 

median house prices haven't increased 10 fold in the last 30 years let alone 25. not even close.

https://www.smh.com.au/property/news/how-much-have-property-prices-risen-over-the-past-30-years-20220830-p5bdwa.html

7 hours ago, 58er said:

You "suspect" and are "not sure" Gouga so your comment wouldn't even pass the "Pub Test" let alone make it as evidence in a local court of law.

Re read your post Gouga and you are actually saying if you live in a cottage snd a two story mansion is next door  you are querying if it's any point in getting to know your neighbour unless he gives you a handsome monetary gift  or contributes with a fancy brick fence between your properties.

Yes times have changed but the 20,000 plus MCC members who barrack for the Dees are our biggest advantage and especially those with a MCC/MFC membership. 

Which of the below would you like to approach the MCC Chairman about if you were Kate Roffey?

1. Training/Admin facilities base in the revamped Shane Warne Stand in 2027?

2. Permission for use of the MCG to replace Goschs Paddock as our city based facility each week for pre and in season training sessions.

3. A seasonal $5 mill donation to MFC.

4. Each Of the 66,000 MFC members have a free one day per year experience in the MCC members reserve on a day to suit themselves including free eats and open bar package of four hours.

5. MCC donate an annual trophy for one of our players based on best MCC values 

Sorry for the cynicism but that's about  the level of contribution  your veiled post made to the topic. 

Good luck to Fred Oldfield in his position and let's just ensure as a start  our respective Clubs doors are open to talk when and where cooperative views or plans strengthen the MCC/MCG or Clubs objectives.

This In the unlikely happening of brown paper cash bags being left in our change rooms or not! 

Sigh. I said suspect, precisely because i am not sure. But it didn't stop you acting a fool.

Yes, i think the relationship can be significantly improved and yes, there should be tangible benefits arising from it. The associate membership you mention is available to all 10 victorian clubs plus brisbane and sydney supporters. Hardly an advatage reserved for us. 

Look forward to skipping reading your posts in the future. 

Edited December 19, 20222 yr by Gouga

52 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

median house prices haven't increased 10 fold in the last 30 years let alone 25. not even close.

https://www.smh.com.au/property/news/how-much-have-property-prices-risen-over-the-past-30-years-20220830-p5bdwa.html

Hmm, you're quite right. I've accidentally added in income that doesn't relate specifically to the sale price.

My old 'mental note' that I was drawing on was the total net income from a $1m portfolio at 80% borrow-to-invest, purchased late 90s and then put to market 2022. So that figure includes the net revenue from rent greater than costs over the period.

The original comparison made (not the one in this thread) was of that hypothetical portfolio vs a full-time worker over the same 25 year period, where the portfolio kept pace then pulled ahead.

I tripped up here because in casual footy-forum mode I noticed the coincidence of the totals ($10m from $1m, being ahead of FT earning) and didn't think about it further.

So, I amend my comments, and will go full verbose for the sake of precision;

The Oldfield Mansion has appreciated significantly more than the general market over the reference period, such that Mr Oldfield has derived a capital gain from his dwelling (less the spending on improvements) comparable to that which would have been earned by a purely investment portfolio generating both capital gains and tenanted revenue. Either scenario represents a net income or capital gains of greater than a full-time minimum wage over the same period.

Now, tongue back in cheek;

Each of these scenarios implies that civilization is facing impending collapse as society splits into a division of those with so much passive, rent-seeking capital that they are unmotivated to invest in genuine enterprises, and those who are so certainly excluded from capital accumulation that they are unmotivated to excel or advance in their occupation, resulting in a gradual stagnation of productivity of both labour force and capital formation, with an exquisitely ironic resemblance to the dysfunctional control economy of the Soviet system, i.e. "They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work."

1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

Hmm, you're quite right. I've accidentally added in income that doesn't relate specifically to the sale price.

My old 'mental note' that I was drawing on was the total net income from a $1m portfolio at 80% borrow-to-invest, purchased late 90s and then put to market 2022. So that figure includes the net revenue from rent greater than costs over the period.

The original comparison made (not the one in this thread) was of that hypothetical portfolio vs a full-time worker over the same 25 year period, where the portfolio kept pace then pulled ahead.

I tripped up here because in casual footy-forum mode I noticed the coincidence of the totals ($10m from $1m, being ahead of FT earning) and didn't think about it further.

So, I amend my comments, and will go full verbose for the sake of precision;

The Oldfield Mansion has appreciated significantly more than the general market over the reference period, such that Mr Oldfield has derived a capital gain from his dwelling (less the spending on improvements) comparable to that which would have been earned by a purely investment portfolio generating both capital gains and tenanted revenue. Either scenario represents a net income or capital gains of greater than a full-time minimum wage over the same period.

Now, tongue back in cheek;

Each of these scenarios implies that civilization is facing impending collapse as society splits into a division of those with so much passive, rent-seeking capital that they are unmotivated to invest in genuine enterprises, and those who are so certainly excluded from capital accumulation that they are unmotivated to excel or advance in their occupation, resulting in a gradual stagnation of productivity of both labour force and capital formation, with an exquisitely ironic resemblance to the dysfunctional control economy of the Soviet system, i.e. "They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work."

so you instinctively don't like successful people who make money

fair enough, but maybe next time keep tl;dr in mind

59 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

so you instinctively don't like successful people who make money

fair enough, but maybe next time keep tl;dr in mind

Oh dear.

I dislike bad policy settings where government interference in the market rewards passive rent-seeking while actually discouraging enterprise and productivity improvement.

I guess your ridiculous comment is kind of right in a way; I instinctively don't like it when people are given money for no reason except that they already had some. If that is the same as 'success' and 'make' to you, then okay.

27 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Oh dear.

I dislike bad policy settings where government interference in the market rewards passive rent-seeking while actually discouraging enterprise and productivity improvement.

I guess your ridiculous comment is kind of right in a way; I instinctively don't like it when people are given money for no reason except that they already had some. If that is the same as 'success' and 'make' to you, then okay.

Death taxes required?

 

6 hours ago, Cheap Seats said:

Death taxes required?

 

Taxes on inherited wealth are a debated but not particularly controversial topic among economists.

Personally I prefer different levers for reigning in super-accumulation of wealth, but they involve a much wider reform of the relationship between corporate taxes and personal taxes as well as a redirection of the business tax burden from 'profit' which is not in itself a problem, to 'externalities', which is now a plausible goal thanks to the dramatically richer information available.

I've been a MFC supporter and MFC member for the best part of 30 years now.  Haven't had a huge amount to do with the MCC over that time, although a few of my best mates are MCC member MFC supporters.  Went to the Carlton game with one of them and another MCC member mate, who was a Carlton supporter (yeah, I know, not sure if he should really make the freinds list! 😜).  I did feel a fairly stark contrast in class atmosphere between the outer and the MCC.

Perhaps if there is something having a MFC supporting MCC president could do it's to somehow break down that barrier between the two groups socially somewhat.  Someone suggested a limited invite for MFC members to watch from the MCC reserve on occation, which I think is a great idea and/or even a joint social function at one of the MCC social rooms.  In the absence of a dedicated training and social facility in the central Melbourne area, surely there are some underutilized facilities at the MCG the MCC could extend in-kind to the MFC faithful.

Didnt the MCC play a role in  booting the MFC off the G 40 years ago and we ended up training at that dump in Stkilda junction?

I havent seen a game of cricket in decades. Cant see 5 day test cricket winning over the young.

 

 

So shall we petition for his resignation because he has some wealth? Perhaps a toothless Collingwood supporter could take the roll...

Pretty hard to eat a roll without teeth.

Is the new Pres any relation to Bert?

Gees I'm glad I didn't dare ruminate around this topic like others have.

 

38 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Is the new Pres any relation to Bert?

It's possible, assuming that Fred is a keeper.

The current MCC President is a passionate MFC supporter too