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old dee
old dee
in Melbourne Demons

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Some of the ‘fans’ that ran on the pitch have been linked with an extremist group. 

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    3 hours ago, old dee said:

    That is simply not the case I posted it as I thought that one of the most amazingly bad supporter efforts should be discussed.

    I don't hate Soccer, I don't understand it but I have no axe to grind. 

    Hi OD. I said as much in my post. On the third line. That the original poster said that wasn’t the case and that I take him at his word. 

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    2 hours ago, DubDee said:

    Some of the ‘fans’ that ran on the pitch have been linked with an extremist group. 

    The GOP? 

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    • Haha 3
     

    Haven’t read all the comments.

    A few point.  Soccer is the most popular game in the world simply its easy to get started, just kick a round ball, toddlers do that,  and can be played anywhere, in the street outside.  Popular does not always make something the best, music proves that :)   Plus history of European control introduced the game in lots of places, then has come the huge money for a tiny minority of players.

    Crowds, in many places like the UK, soccer replaced tribal warfare (Competition between towns etc) between different groups, the second and I think the most important is the make up the crowds.  This has been studied by European soccer and they can’t find a solution.  Most AFL crowds are generally 50/50 male/female and it also includes lots of kids, soccer is not.  This creates a totally different atmosphere and expectation.  Until this aspect changes across leagues the problems like this will appear from time to time  

    As for those that went onto the pitch, what if they banned them from all levels of soccer involvement for life that includes junior footy.  I reckon that would have more impact on behaviour than just banning them from the A-leguae.  Plus it removes their attitude from the development years.  

    From what I heard on TV, it was supposed to be a walkout at 20minutes to protest the finals being held in Sydney.   

     

     

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    2 hours ago, darkhorse72 said:

    Haven’t read all the comments.

    A few point.  Soccer is the most popular game in the world simply its easy to get started, just kick a round ball, toddlers do that,  and can be played anywhere, in the street outside.  Popular does not always make something the best, music proves that :)   Plus history of European control introduced the game in lots of places, then has come the huge money for a tiny minority of players.

    Crowds, in many places like the UK, soccer replaced tribal warfare (Competition between towns etc) between different groups, the second and I think the most important is the make up the crowds.  This has been studied by European soccer and they can’t find a solution.  Most AFL crowds are generally 50/50 male/female and it also includes lots of kids, soccer is not.  This creates a totally different atmosphere and expectation.  Until this aspect changes across leagues the problems like this will appear from time to time  

    As for those that went onto the pitch, what if they banned them from all levels of soccer involvement for life that includes junior footy.  I reckon that would have more impact on behaviour than just banning them from the A-leguae.  Plus it removes their attitude from the development years.  

    From what I heard on TV, it was supposed to be a walkout at 20minutes to protest the finals being held in Sydney.   

     

     

    You're insinuating that AFL is the best game. What are you basing that on?

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    On 12/19/2022 at 7:57 AM, Demonstone said:

    It's probably not too late to get this special World Cup edition of foosball in time for Christmas.

     

    BaVUlx2.jpg

    You nailed the exact moment somewhere in the first half hour when i switched from supporting Argentina to France. The mindset that the 'opposition must have injured me, if I lost the ball' is so grating. All these feigned injuries where they act like theyve been shot, whenever there's a light ankle tap or graze. And the ref buys into it all. 

    Edited by John Demonic

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    1 hour ago, mo64 said:

    You're insinuating that AFL is the best game. What are you basing that on?

    superior intellect no doubt 😉

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    54 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

     All these feigned injuries where they act like theyve been shot, whenever there's a light ankle tap or graze. And the ref buys into it all. 

    Ever wounder where Joel Selwood got his inspiration?

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    39 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

    Ever wounder where Joel Selwood got his inspiration?

    Can't I have 1 bloody off season without the mention of his name? :laugh:

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    4 hours ago, darkhorse72 said:

    As for those that went onto the pitch, what if they banned them from all levels of soccer involvement for life that includes junior footy.  I reckon that would have more impact on behaviour than just banning them from the A-leguae.  Plus it removes their attitude from the development years.

    The severe bans extend from international games through to registering to play Sunday League football. Even if you’re banned you can find a way into games though, the infrastructure and lack of technology makes it difficult to enforce. 

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    5 hours ago, mo64 said:

    You're insinuating that AFL is the best game. What are you basing that on?

    Umm no,  where does it say that.  I just said most popular does not always equal the best.  I didn’t mention AFL at all in the point, that is your own bias creating that interpretation.   
     

    Simply that soccer is easy to play anywhere, hence its played almost everywhere. I don’t mind playing a game of soccer, but can’t stand watching a game

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    16 hours ago, old dee said:

    Basketball for me Rab.

    Now, this is a game I find particularly boring...too much scoring & so predictable.

    Each to their own I guess.

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    5 hours ago, darkhorse72 said:

    Umm no,  where does it say that.  I just said most popular does not always equal the best.  I didn’t mention AFL at all in the point, that is your own bias creating that interpretation.   
     

    Simply that soccer is easy to play anywhere, hence its played almost everywhere. I don’t mind playing a game of soccer, but can’t stand watching a game

    Huh? So why did you make the comment that "popular does not always equal the best", if not to imply there are better games? If so, what are the better games?

    If you asked me in the '80s which game is the best to watch, I would have argued AFL without a doubt, despite the fact that I was playing soccer at the time. But once the domestic competitions started importing foreign players, the standard and aesthetics of soccer has improved immeasurably. Conversely, AFL reached it's peak in the '80s and 90's when you had Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett all kicking 100+ goals a season. Since then, the AFL has continued to tinker with the rules and interpretations to improve the "look" of the game.

    These days, I'd rather watch a neutral game of NFL, whereas I have little interest watching an AFL game between teams I find boring.

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    3 hours ago, rjay said:

    Now, this is a game I find particularly boring...too much scoring & so predictable.

    Each to their own I guess.

    That's one of the reasons I like it. Action a plenty. However I enjoy the live game much better than TV. IMO it is similar to Aussie rules. Much better live than on tv. The sad part for me is going to games is not as easy as it used to be, I have had to get used to the TV version. 

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    22 hours ago, Supermercado said:

    The idea that people punch on at soccer games because there's not enough scoring could be the dumbest sporting theory ever floated.

    Why do they punch on? I'm fascinated to hear an explanation that is not related to the game.

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    Reasons for violence in my opinion vary from religion, to hate speech and taunting. A lot of violence happens well before kick-off out in the streets. Hooligans seem to be less interested in the actual match.

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    8 minutes ago, old55 said:

    Why do they punch on? I'm fascinated to hear an explanation that is not related to the game.

    Smarter people than me have written books and academic papers on true football hooliganism that we see around the world.

    Supporter groups (viewed as extremist groups) want to win on and off the pitch, and they want to be acknowledged as being the best/toughest.  So they have occasional pre-arranged scraps, try to steal opponents flags etc. So you get some fan on fan violence for bragging rights, as strange as that may sound to some. 

    Your average football fan is not about that life, it is a fringe element. What we have here is a watered down version (if you remove the incident against the player on Saturday). There are some elements of the above but also just young men on the drink. If you're looking at the game in general, I wouldn't say it's a lack of scoring - football (soccer) on a whole is built on moments and explosions of emotions. It does spill over sometimes, not going to deny that.

    As I said I've witnessed plenty of punch-ons at multiple sporting codes (and pubs) over my life, biggest crowd incident I saw was at a Dees vs Swans game and started off with some mild comments.  Last year at the Dees v Hawks game a Hawks player ducked out of a challenge on the boundary and I yelled out "He didn't want it" which I thought was a harmless enough comment, a Hawks fan took umbrage to this and started having a right go at me, security intervened. Not saying it would have become violent but these days all you need to do is say the wrong thing around the wrong person for something to escalate. 

    At the end of the day some people punch on over parking spots!

     

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    22 minutes ago, roy11 said:

    Smarter people than me have written books and academic papers on true football hooliganism that we see around the world.

    Supporter groups (viewed as extremist groups) want to win on and off the pitch, and they want to be acknowledged as being the best/toughest.  So they have occasional pre-arranged scraps, try to steal opponents flags etc. So you get some fan on fan violence for bragging rights, as strange as that may sound to some. 

    Your average football fan is not about that life, it is a fringe element. What we have here is a watered down version (if you remove the incident against the player on Saturday). There are some elements of the above but also just young men on the drink. If you're looking at the game in general, I wouldn't say it's a lack of scoring - football (soccer) on a whole is built on moments and explosions of emotions. It does spill over sometimes, not going to deny that.

    As I said I've witnessed plenty of punch-ons at multiple sporting codes (and pubs) over my life, biggest crowd incident I saw was at a Dees vs Swans game and started off with some mild comments.  Last year at the Dees v Hawks game a Hawks player ducked out of a challenge on the boundary and I yelled out "He didn't want it" which I thought was a harmless enough comment, a Hawks fan took umbrage to this and started having a right go at me, security intervened. Not saying it would have become violent but these days all you need to do is say the wrong thing around the wrong person for something to escalate. 

    At the end of the day some people punch on over parking spots!

     

    Or less!

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    3 hours ago, old55 said:

    Why do they punch on? I'm fascinated to hear an explanation that is not related to the game.

    Because the dregs of society get together in a group, feed off each other's macho [censored] and are more often than not either [censored] off their face or coked to the eyeballs. I'm not denying that the culture of the game glorifies this stupidity in ways that other sports haven't (although there are many examples of mobs making violent idiots of themselves in other sports), but given that the majority of trouble worldwide happens either before or after games it's hardly consistent with people getting antsy and walloping somebody with a bucket because there hasn't been a goal for 20 minutes.

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    5 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

    Because the dregs of society get together in a group, feed off each other's macho [censored] and are more often than not either [censored] off their face or coked to the eyeballs. I'm not denying that the culture of the game glorifies this stupidity in ways that other sports haven't (although there are many examples of mobs making violent idiots of themselves in other sports), but given that the majority of trouble worldwide happens either before or after games it's hardly consistent with people getting antsy and walloping somebody with a bucket because there hasn't been a goal for 20 minutes.

    Doesn't explain why other sports don't attract people exhibiting the same behaviour.  Doubtless there are a variety of factors, but I am convinced the nature of the game (ie. long periods of little progress or player interactions) is a factor.  Even AFL crowds express frustration with the relatively recent introduction of kicking it backwards and sideways .  But at least that doesn't last long.

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    23 minutes ago, sue said:

    Doesn't explain why other sports don't attract people exhibiting the same behaviour.  Doubtless there are a variety of factors, but I am convinced the nature of the game (ie. long periods of little progress or player interactions) is a factor.  Even AFL crowds express frustration with the relatively recent introduction of kicking it backwards and sideways .  But at least that doesn't last long.

    As I said in the post above the culture of the sport has glorified [censored] mob behaviour like no other. This is a stain on the game but it's not representative of the entire sport and the literally thousands of games that take place every week around the world with no crowd trouble inside or (more often) outside the ground. Your theory that they get a bit bored and decide to brawl/rip a flare that would have stayed in the pocket if they were watching (what you perceive to be) a more exciting game is so ludicrous it's painful to argue.

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    • Like 1
    On 12/18/2022 at 2:26 PM, Rab D Nesbitt said:

    Hi George. At the Philips Stadion where PSV play there is a railway line that goes right past the ground. Visiting fans must have tickets and board a specific train that pulls into a platform adjacent to a small corner of the ground where they walk down a tunnel into an area that is completely surrounded by netting to catch anything being thrown in or out. 

     

    4 hours ago, roy11 said:

    Your average football fan is not about that life, it is a fringe element. 

     

    1 hour ago, Supermercado said:

    Because the dregs of society get together in a group, feed off each other's macho [censored] and are more often than not either [censored] off their face or coked to the eyeballs. 

    I'm unconvinced that aberrant behaviour at soccer matches is limited to the "fringe element" and "the dregs of society".  It doesn't sound consistent with the type of measures required at Philips Stadion as referenced above and at many other soccer stadia in the world.  If indeed the problem is just with a small minority of supporters then the game should be able to police this.

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    there is obviously an underlying pathological condition in many soccer supporters. this attracts them to soccer and then an excess amount of soccer attendance triggers this antisocial behaviour. just like excessive marijuana usage can trigger schizophrenia

    DrDc

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    12 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

    there is obviously an underlying pathological condition in many soccer supporters. this attracts them to soccer and then an excess amount of soccer attendance triggers this antisocial behaviour. just like excessive marijuana usage can trigger schizophrenia

    DrDc

    Hope this isn't the case, seen Clarry and Salem at a few games over the years. 

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