On 12/3/2022 at 8:49 PM, DubDee said:

I still vomit in my mouth every time I see the phrase Magic Round

Same for 'Gather' Round.

Really wished they'd run with a round where there was 7, 8 or 9 games on a Saturday afternoon at 2pm instead as a traditional Saturday afternoon footy Rd.  Be more exciting I think, but then the TV would loose out 🙄.

Much better than last year it seems

Edited December 12, 20222 yr by MrFreeze

Since 1987 when the West Coast Eagles entered the competition we have played 56 times

29 x H&A games in Perth

20 x H&A games in Melbourne

 

2 x H&A game in NT

3 x Finals have been played in Melbourne where WCE should have been the Home team

2 x Finals have been played in Perth

 

We have played the Eagles in Melbourne at the following venues:

 

16 x MCG

3 x VFL Park (as Away Team in Finals)

2 x Optus Oval

2 x Marvel Stadium

2 x Northern Territory (not in Melbourne - obviously)

 

We have not played the Eagles in Melbourne since Rd 2 2014.

 

In that time we have only had 2 other Home Games against the Eagles & both of those were sold home games in the NT.

 

We have played the Eagles 8 times in Perth during that period (not including the 2018 PF).

 

This century we have played the Eagles 18 times in Perth and only 11 times in Melbourne and 2 in the NT.

 

Our only match against the Eagles in 2023 is at Optus Stadium in Perth.

 

It will be the 4th H&A match in a row that we have played against the WCE in Perth.

 

Prior to our last Home match (in the NT) against WCE we had a stint of 5 games in Perth which included the 2018 PF.

 

Fun Fact: the Demons have won more Premierships than the Eagles at their current Home Ground Optus Stadium.

Happy to play the Eagles in Perth for the next few years given it will almost be a guaranteed win.

The Kardinia park stats are ridiculous and shows just how unfair the fixturing is, with some clubs getting shafted while others get dream runs. If the AFL were actually serious about equalisation they would ensure that at a minimum, a team can't play against another side away two years in a row unless they have a corresponding duble up.

44 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

Happy to play the Eagles in Perth for the next few years given it will almost be a guaranteed win.

The Kardinia park stats are ridiculous and shows just how unfair the fixturing is, with some clubs getting shafted while others get dream runs. If the AFL were actually serious about equalisation they would ensure that at a minimum, a team can't play against another side away two years in a row unless they have a corresponding duble up.

On the flip side we have had the rub of the green when it comes to playing Sydney since 2010.

11 Home Games at the G (including the QF in 22) to only 3 games at the SCG (and 1 in Cairns in 2020).

Prior to 2010 we played them 3 times in a row in Canberra as our Home game. Anyone know why that was?

Looking forward to the Bombers instalment. It’s a disgrace but I think it often works in our favour as an extra ‘home’ game at the MCG. 

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Looking forward to the Bombers instalment. It’s a disgrace but I think it often works in our favour as an extra ‘home’ game at the MCG. 

Not from a financial perspective. During the white bali jumper era it was an offense to my eyes.

16 minutes ago, Demonland said:

On the flip side we have had the rub of the green when it comes to playing Sydney since 2010.

11 Home Games at the G (including the QF in 22) to only 3 games at the SCG (and 1 in Cairns in 2020).

Prior to 2010 we played them 3 times in a row in Canberra as our Home game. Anyone know why that was?

Certainly a positive fixturing quirk, but a pity we've gone 2-8-1 against them since 2010 at the MCG.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Not from a financial perspective. During the white bali jumper era it was an offense to my eyes.

True, but we did get Queens Birthday every year for a long period. 
 

And the 80s away strip we have now is fantastic. 

22 hours ago, Demonland said:

Since 1987 when the West Coast Eagles entered the competition we have played 56 times

29 x H&A games in Perth

20 x H&A games in Melbourne

 

2 x H&A game in NT

3 x Finals have been played in Melbourne where WCE should have been the Home team

2 x Finals have been played in Perth

 

We have played the Eagles in Melbourne at the following venues:

 

16 x MCG

3 x VFL Park (as Away Team in Finals)

2 x Optus Oval

2 x Marvel Stadium

2 x Northern Territory (not in Melbourne - obviously)

 

We have not played the Eagles in Melbourne since Rd 2 2014.

 

In that time we have only had 2 other Home Games against the Eagles & both of those were sold home games in the NT.

 

We have played the Eagles 8 times in Perth during that period (not including the 2018 PF).

 

This century we have played the Eagles 18 times in Perth and only 11 times in Melbourne and 2 in the NT.

 

Our only match against the Eagles in 2023 is at Optus Stadium in Perth.

 

It will be the 4th H&A match in a row that we have played against the WCE in Perth.

 

Prior to our last Home match (in the NT) against WCE we had a stint of 5 games in Perth which included the 2018 PF.

 

Fun Fact: the Demons have won more Premierships than the Eagles at their current Home Ground Optus Stadium.

Throw in the Kardinia Park loading and can anyone seriously consider that the AFL isn’t corrupt?   

I have always felt we have a worse draw than teams like Geelong, Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton.

But now we have 66,000 members we should be getting a better draw?

1 hour ago, durango said:

I have always felt we have a worse draw than teams like Geelong, Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton.

But now we have 66,000 members we should be getting a better draw?

I think that's not the determining factor. Influence at AFL HQ counts for a lot more.

I don’t mind getting a bad draw - as long as it’s only once every 18 years, and that

 principle is the same for all teams.

It has been 6,675 days since Essendon last won a final.

Embarrassingly they defeated the Melbourne Football Club that day on the MCG.

Since that fateful day Essendon and Melbourne have been scheduled to play against each other on 19 occasions.

Essendon have been listed as the Home Team on 15 of those occasions.

Melbourne has won 12 & lost 7 of those matches.

Between Rd 01 2005 and Round 15 2010 Melbourne were listed as the Away Team 5 times.

3 x Docklands

2 x MCG

Between Rd 15 2010 and Round 03 2019 Melbourne were listed as the Away Team 8 times.

6 x MCG

2 x Docklands

During COVID the Dees were scheduled to play Essendon in Rd 03 as the Away Team at the MCG but the match was infamously cancelled due to a suspected COVID case in the Bombers camp.

The match was subsequently played in Rd 18 with Essendon the Home Team at Metricon Stadium.

Since then both teams have had a Home game at the MCG with Essendon having the honour in 2021 and the Dees being gifted this rare gift in 2022.

Now you might ask why is this an issue as the majority of these games were played at the Demon's Home ground the MCG.

There are two reasons for this:

1. Cosmetics

2. Financial

The first is cosmetic and ultimately not that important but for the majority of those games the Demons were forced to wear that horrible white clash strip despite the Bombers having their own clash strips during that time.

Did the Bombers not want to wear a clash strip?

The 2nd is financial and this is a problem because the Home Team takes the gate receipts for matches and for a 17 year period the Essendon Football Club has taken the gate receipts for 15 out of 19 clashes against the Demons.

Crowds for Matches between MELB & ESS between 2005 & 2022

(Home Team listed by first letter)

M 47,849

E 55,016

E 35,019

E 47,552

E 46,334

E 42,087

M 49,203

E 53,077

E 42,987

E 51,153

E 44,626

E 38,861

E 50,424

E 44,040

E 35,964

M 52,475

E 2,175 (COVID)

E 19,414 (COVID)

M 44,503

Melbourne Home Games vs Essendon Average Crowd

48,507.5

Essendon Home Games vs Melbourne Average Crowd

45,164.6 (not including COVID affected games)

It is obvious that Essendon has benefitted financially over a 17 year period having taken the gate receipts in 13 more games (COVID affected games excluded).

In 2023 Essendon once again have the honour of hosting the Demons however this time the game will be played in Adelaide as part of the AFL's Gather Round.

Both teams will be compensated an estimated $500,000.

Who will be the home team in 2024?

Finally, this FUN FACT bears repeating; It has been 6,675 days since Essendon Football Club last won a final.

You can follow along at home to see how long this astonishing record will last by following @FinalsEssendon on Twitter.

30 minutes ago, Demonland said:

It has been 6,675 days since Essendon last won a final.

Embarrassingly they defeated the Melbourne Football Club that day on the MCG.

Since that fateful day Essendon and Melbourne have been scheduled to play against each other on 19 occasions.

Essendon have been listed as the Home Team on 15 of those occasions.

Melbourne has won 12 & lost 7 of those matches.

Between Rd 01 2005 and Round 15 2010 Melbourne were listed as the Away Team 5 times.

3 x Docklands

2 x MCG

Between Rd 15 2010 and Round 03 2019 Melbourne were listed as the Away Team 8 times.

6 x MCG

2 x Docklands

During COVID the Dees were scheduled to play Essendon in Rd 03 as the Away Team at the MCG but the match was infamously cancelled due to a suspected COVID case in the Bombers camp.

The match was subsequently played in Rd 18 with Essendon the Home Team at Metricon Stadium.

Since then both teams have had a Home game at the MCG with Essendon having the honour in 2021 and the Dees being gifted this rare gift in 2022.

Now you might ask why is this an issue as the majority of these games were played at the Demon's Home ground the MCG.

There are two reasons for this:

1. Cosmetics

2. Financial

The first is cosmetic and ultimately not that important but for the majority of those games the Demons were forced to wear that horrible white clash strip despite the Bombers having their own clash strips during that time.

Did the Bombers not want to wear a clash strip?

The 2nd is financial and this is a problem because the Home Team takes the gate receipts for matches and for a 17 year period the Essendon Football Club has taken the gate receipts for 15 out of 19 clashes against the Demons.

Crowds for Matches between MELB & ESS between 2005 & 2022

(Home Team listed by first letter)

M 47,849

E 55,016

E 35,019

E 47,552

E 46,334

E 42,087

M 49,203

E 53,077

E 42,987

E 51,153

E 44,626

E 38,861

E 50,424

E 44,040

E 35,964

M 52,475

E 2,175 (COVID)

E 19,414 (COVID)

M 44,503

Melbourne Home Games vs Essendon Average Crowd

48,507.5

Essendon Home Games vs Melbourne Average Crowd

45,164.6 (not including COVID affected games)

It is obvious that Essendon has benefitted financially over a 17 year period having taken the gate receipts in 13 more games (COVID affected games excluded).

In 2023 Essendon once again have the honour of hosting the Demons however this time the game will be played in Adelaide as part of the AFL's Gather Round.

Both teams will be compensated an estimated $500,000.

Who will be the home team in 2024?

Finally, this FUN FACT bears repeating; It has been 6,675 days since Essendon Football Club last won a final.

You can follow along at home to see how long this astonishing record will last by following @FinalsEssendon on Twitter.

and you can add about 300 days to that total because they don't have a chance to snag a final until sept 2023

so the good thing is you can watch that count go up every single day for quite some time yet

3 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

I don’t mind getting a bad draw - as long as it’s only once every 18 years, and that

 principle is the same for all teams.

The word "principle" (nor "integrity" for that matter) should never be used in connection with the AFL, especially in regard to their scheduling.

 

3 hours ago, Demonland said:

Finally, this FUN FACT bears repeating; It has been 6,675 days since Essendon Football Club last won a final.

You can follow along at home to see how long this astonishing record will last by following @FinalsEssendon on Twitter.

 

3 hours ago, daisycutter said:

and you can add about 300 days to that total because they don't have a chance to snag a final until sept 2023

so the good thing is you can watch that count go up every single day for quite some time yet

They have to make finals first!

So add at least another 365 to eos 2024 as they do not plan to even make finals in 2023!  going-to-take-time-bombers-not-entertaining-finals-talk

And Scott is preaching patience.  A brave man preaching patience after nearly 20 years in finals wilderness!  They'll eat him alive if he doesn't get wins on the board.

Any data scientists out there?

I'd be curious to know the correlation (or not) between ease of the draw and end of season ladder position and flags won.

It would appear that a critical element in terms of generating a favourable September, is the draw, with both which teams you play, and when you play them potentially decisive in determining the likely results at the end of the year.

If there is a correlation, and the analysis of draw difficulty from Champion data (above) is accurate, then we are in for a good year in 2023..!

Especially noting that those we'd likely meet in finals are in the top 5 (with the exception of Geelong).

26 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Any data scientists out there?

I'd be curious to know the correlation (or not) between ease of the draw and end of season ladder position and flags won.

It would appear that a critical element in terms of generating a favourable September, is the draw, with both which teams you play, and when you play them potentially decisive in determining the likely results at the end of the year.

If there is a correlation, and the analysis of draw difficulty from Champion data (above) is accurate, then we are in for a good year in 2023..!

Especially noting that those we'd likely meet in finals are in the top 5 (with the exception of Geelong).

it's not a draw; it's a fixture

6 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

it's not a draw; it's a fixture

Yep. 

And the way the AFL pronounce it, ture is silent.

56 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Any data scientists out there?

I'd be curious to know the correlation (or not) between ease of the draw and end of season ladder position and flags won.

It would appear that a critical element in terms of generating a favourable September, is the draw, with both which teams you play, and when you play them potentially decisive in determining the likely results at the end of the year.

If there is a correlation, and the analysis of draw difficulty from Champion data (above) is accurate, then we are in for a good year in 2023..!

Especially noting that those we'd likely meet in finals are in the top 5 (with the exception of Geelong).

Not sure about the 'bolded' comment if 'favourable' means winning a premiership or even going to the PF stage.

An 'easy' fixture hadn't helped Geelong for over a decade.  It is fair to say they were the best managed team in 2022 that peaked in September as we did in 2021.

The teams that make the finals by virtue of an easy fixture get found our very quickly during the finals, especially those that haven't been there for a while.

The two that made it to a Premiership on the back of an 'easier' draw were Bulldogs in 2016 and Richmond in 2017 both having finished 13th in the prior year.  However, both teams had made the finals (with early exits) in the years prior to those premierships.  So they were relatively experienced finals teams.

Without checking I don't think there is a team that has made a PF/GF or won the premiership 'out of the blue' without prior finals experience.  While Collingwood made it to a PF last year on the back of an easier fixture they had a decent and recent finals history.

Some might say we benefited in 2021 having been 9th in 2020 but that would be very difficult to support as we blasted all comers out of the finals.

'Dark Horses' don't win premierships out of the blue nor on the back of easy fixtures.

Edited December 15, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

20 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Not sure about the 'bolded' comment if 'favourable' means winning a premiership or even going to the PF stage.

An 'easy' fixture hadn't helped Geelong for over a decade.  It is fair to say they were the best managed team in 2022 that peaked in September as we did in 2021.

The teams that make the finals by virtue of an easy fixture get found our very quickly during the finals, especially those that haven't been there for a while.

The two that made it to a Premiership on the back of an 'easier' draw were Bulldogs in 2016 and Richmond in 2017 both having finished 13th in the prior year.  However, both teams had made the finals (with early exits) in the years prior to those premierships.  So they were relatively experienced finals teams.

Without checking I don't think there is a team that has made a PF/GF or won the premiership 'out of the blue' without prior finals experience.  While Collingwood made it to a PF last year on the back of an easier fixture they had a decent and recent finals history.

Some might say we benefited in 2021 having been 9th in 2020 but that would be very difficult to support as we blasted all comers out of the finals.

'Dark Horses' don't win premierships out of the blue nor on the back of easy fixtures.

Hey Lucifer, appreciate your opinion, and you may well be correct. But I was more curious as to what the data would say, rather than everyones opinion or their personal interpretation of it... personal bias and all that.

If we combined the "loading theories and practices" being discussed throughout the last 2 seasons, with a breakdown of the draw fixture using statistical methods (rather than simply scanning for data points that confirm our established beliefs) i think we may find there are some insights that would be interesting.

I.e. does our fixture support an optimal loading program? which team has best fixture when loading is factored in? etc...

 

Edited December 15, 20222 yr by PaulRB

On 12/7/2022 at 7:39 AM, old dee said:

It's not the only thing I read ds. And yes it explains a lot. 

And sadly it is the only thing my wife tends to read (from cover to cover) and worse still, believes what she reads. 
And it doesn’t help our relationship one iota when discussing pretty much any issue I respond with ‘is that a fact or did you read it in the Herald Sun.  
I can’t even refer to it being called a ‘newspaper’, it is a ‘Murdoch tabloid’.  There is a big difference, news v unsubstantiated biased opinions.

Edited December 17, 20222 yr by Wodjathefirst
Needed to vent just a little more!

On 12/14/2022 at 12:40 PM, durango said:

I have always felt we have a worse draw than teams like Geelong, Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton.

But now we have 66,000 members we should be getting a better draw?

It's not just how many members it's how many people turn up to the games.

12 hours ago, Wodjathefirst said:

And sadly it is the only thing my wife tends to read (from cover to cover) and worse still, believes what she reads. 
And it doesn’t help our relationship one iota when discussing pretty much any issue I respond with ‘is that a fact or did you read it in the Herald Sun.  
I can’t even refer to it being called a ‘newspaper’, it is a ‘Murdoch tabloid’.  There is a big difference, news v unsubstantiated biased opinions.

"Murdoch tabloid" is even being kind, I just refer to it as the LNP/coal lobby Pravda with some Harvey Norman ads on every other page.