2 minutes ago, CYB said:

I hear you but if this was a trial for rape or paedophilia, you would need much more than witness statement to persecute the perpetrator. From what I read there doesn’t seem to be any factual evidence to support these allegations. It is circumstantial as I can find many holes in the information that has been presented and the way it has been presented. 

My frustration is probably misplaced - as i do hope the truth comes out and justice prevails. I have a mistrust in all things media as they are inherently conflicted in their duties these days to sell papers and I find it just way too coincidental that they decide to release this report on the eve of the GF. 
 

This isn't a 'media report' though, it's a report prepared by an external consultant at the request of the Hawthorn Football Club.

And unless you've read the full report and spoken to all involved I'm not sure how you can say it's all "circumstantial" and you can find "many holes in the information".

This seems to all be you projecting things tbh.

19 minutes ago, CYB said:

I hear you but if this was a trial for rape or paedophilia, you would need much more than witness statement to persecute the perpetrator. From what I read there doesn’t seem to be any factual evidence to support these allegations. It is circumstantial as I can find many holes in the information that has been presented and the way it has been presented. 

My frustration is probably misplaced - as i do hope the truth comes out and justice prevails. I have a mistrust in all things media as they are inherently conflicted in their duties these days to sell papers and I find it just way too coincidental that they decide to release this report on the eve of the GF. 
 

From an AFL perspective they would have much preferred this NOT to come out the week of the Grand Final but the severity of these events are too big to delay. The fact that they are assembling the panel to get going with the investigation immediately tells you how seriously they are taking it, if some others aren't. 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by layzie

11 minutes ago, CYB said:

I have a mistrust in all things media as they are inherently conflicted in their duties these days to sell papers and I find it just way too coincidental that they decide to release this report on the eve of the GF. 

Fair response mate - but if the journalist in question (and legal team) haven't done due diligence, his career will be over and he will be sued to within an inch of his life. He's put his (highly decorated) journalistic career on the line here. Those aren't the actions of someone operating on a hunch.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Accepting Mediocrity

1 minute ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Fair response mate - but if the journalist in question (and legal team) haven't done due diligence, his career will be over and he will be sued to within an inch of his life. He's put his (highly decorated) journalistic career on the line here. Those aren't the actions of someone operating on a hunch.

just to be a pedant, the journalist wasn't giving an opinion, merely reporting the accusations made by others in a report provided by a consultant to the hfc. as long as a journo is reporting allegations as allegations and not as fact they are on pretty safe ground legally

Just now, layzie said:

From an AFL perspective they would have much preferred this NOT to come out the week of the Grand Final but the severity of these events are too big to delay it and the fact they are assembling the panel to get going with the investigation immediately tells you how seriously they are taking it, if some others aren't. 

I don’t disagree with the response by the AFL, but why does it take an allegation made through the media to trigger it. Was it not offered to the AFL previously to trigger an investigation?

1 minute ago, CYB said:

I don’t disagree with the response by the AFL, but why does it take an allegation made through the media to trigger it. Was it not offered to the AFL previously to trigger an investigation?

The report only came back to Hawthorn 2 weeks ago. They have said they immediately handed it to the AFL.

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

 

C'mon faulty, don't be that person.

This issue is too serious for culture wars palaver. It just distracts from the issue at hand

The tone of this thread has been measured  and almost to a poster, people have qualified their views with variations of 'if true'.

Leaving aside the polemics, if the allegations are true, what is your view on the situation (as opposed to your view on other's responses)?

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by george_on_the_outer

 

If I learned this happened at our club, I honestly don’t think I could continue supporting them. 

If true, it’s not only the horrific racism and misogyny involved in the acts that deserve punishment, it’s that those involved in these incidents have butchered the reputation of a 120 year-old club and shattered the trust of thousands upon thousands of supporters. 

Aside from the people directly affected by this, I genuinely feel sorry for Hawthorn supporters who have now been thrown into a maelstrom of immorality through no fault of their own. 
 

 

 

 

 

Why all the outrage? This and worse has been happening to ordinary First Nation peoples for centuries and nothing has changed for the better. However when the same discrimination happens to sportsman or celebrity First Nations person then mob mentality outrage becomes palpable. Many now want to care or pretend to so as to get their fix of conscious cleansing. Remember the Jurrah incident when he got celebrity justice and the best lawyers to get him off serious charges whilst his nobody co accused had to plead guilty to the same charges because no one would defend them. They got traditional First Nations justice. If most Australians really cared, these kind of outrages would have been extinct decades ago. 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by John Crow Batty

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

 

So are you suggesting that the response to this report being made public should just be hundreds of thousands of people saying literally nothing until all the allegations are indisputably proven?

Do you live on earth? 

As Binman pointed out, people have been careful to qualify their reactions to this with “If true”. What more do you want?

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by george_on_the_outer

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by george_on_the_outer

1 hour ago, old dee said:

I though he played for Fitzroy WJ?

Doug Nicholls played some reserves matches for Carlton in 1927 but did not play a senior game.

Some of the trainers there refused to attend to him because he was an Aboriginal. He subsequently joined Northcote in the VFA and was a member of their 1929 premiership team.

In 1932, he joined Fitzroy Football Club and in 1935, he was the first Aboriginal player to be selected to play for the Victorian interstate team.

2 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Doug Nicolls played some reserves matches for Carlton in 1927 but did not play a senior game.

 

Some of the trainers refused to attend to him because he was an Aboriginal. He subsequently joined Northcote in the VFA and was a member of their 1929 premiership team.

 

In 1932, he joined Fitzroy Football Club and in 1935, he was the first Aboriginal player to be selected to play for the Victorian interstate team.

 

I stand correct WJ.

25 minutes ago, CYB said:

I don’t disagree with the response by the AFL, but why does it take an allegation made through the media to trigger it. Was it not offered to the AFL previously to trigger an investigation?

Well that's another question altogether and something that will need to be answered. There are some aspects of this that you would ordinarily think are too far fetched and this is why the sooner this investigation starts the better because there are so many questions that need prompt answers.

1 hour ago, CYB said:

Yes. The proof is as far as I know circumstantial.

Don’t get me wrong - if they are guilty, then they deserve the full weight of what’s coming to them. But equally, if they are not or it is not undeniable in proof, then it is slander and has caused irreparable damage to arguably the best coach in AFL history. 

I see it a little different, 

I am struggling to see how this can't be true, and at best you could argue for some misinterpretation.... but the substance of the allegations surely remains regardless I think.

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

And as usual, the eternally outraged automatically accept every allegation as established fact, and start the bashing of "wHitE mEn" and conservative T.V presenters.

Predictable and pathetic.

 

A footy club is a microcosm of society, the same analogy used when footballers stray, can be pointed at the management.  

We often have a management style that is a reflection of the 1950s. When will these behemoths, dinosaur's step aside and let those who adjust to the modern norms of behaviour be the guides. Leaders need to reflect the best of us, and not fight to maintain a status quo that is amiable to the powers that be, ambivalent to the middle and downright obtuse to the lower. Get those types out of the management structure.

We need people who change the institutions proactively and not those who have to be dragged to even accept the times are a changing. 

I don’t think it is about a woke society, or ethic/morality training, but more about having diversity and selecting people with merit and broad life experiences to have a voice, in decision and supportive roles.

Very much a time to move on from the Old Boys club style of management.

Passing psychological and personality assessments could be the way.

Could use affirmative employment methods to get more, females, multicultural participants, and those from varying social status, to create appropriate voices and guidance in our institutions.

Out with nepotism, group think, and born to rule, time for the glass ceiling to disappear completely. 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by kev martin

That was a hard read and really hard to comprehend that this is still happening in todays world

48 minutes ago, layzie said:

From an AFL perspective they would have much preferred this NOT to come out the week of the Grand Final but the severity of these events are too big to delay. The fact that they are assembling the panel to get going with the investigation immediately tells you how seriously they are taking it, if some others aren't. 

It should have come out 2 weeks ago. If this taints the 2022 GF, then blame the AFL. 

Clarkson wouldn’t be employed by Naught 

The AFL put the report in the Cupboard 

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It should have come out 2 weeks ago. If this taints the 2022 GF, then blame the AFL. 

Clarkson wouldn’t be employed by Naught 

The AFL put the report in the Cupboard 

Makes you wonder if there's a spreadsheet next to it?

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It should have come out 2 weeks ago. If this taints the 2022 GF, then blame the AFL. 

Clarkson wouldn’t be employed by Naught 

The AFL put the report in the Cupboard 

north certainly got their nuts caught in the vice

i'd imagine they'd be furious at not getting a heads up (from afl or hfc)

7 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Makes you wonder if there's a spreadsheet next to it?

Wouldn’t suprise me one bit

”We need a strong Essendrug….”

29 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It should have come out 2 weeks ago. If this taints the 2022 GF, then blame the AFL. 

Clarkson wouldn’t be employed by Naught 

The AFL put the report in the Cupboard 

Really hope this isn't the case but obviously possible. 

1 hour ago, CYB said:

I don’t disagree with the response by the AFL, but why does it take an allegation made through the media to trigger it. Was it not offered to the AFL previously to trigger an investigation?

Excellent point CYB  Makes you wonder doesn't it?

If AFL had knowledge of the report 2 weeks ago It would have looked so much better if they had called the press conference and aired the allegations themselves  rather than waiting for a reporter to do it

Looks like the AFL waited to see if it could be buried

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The ABC doesn’t exist to sell Papers or News Space. 

what does it exist for?