what an horrific allegation(s). i'm simply left incredulous.

so many ramifications possible here. the tentacles could spread to many unexpected areas.

no point in being predudicial or hypothetical at this time, as it will probably take a long time to all unravel

i'm going to need a shed load of popcorn

Edited September 21, 20223 yr by daisycutter
minor spelling

52 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I’m a little skeptical of some of the details. It might well have been that some players used the club as a defence for their desire to break up. Then found themselves delisted and went back to their old relationships and put the blame on the club. I know that’s pretty cynical but don’t tell me it’s implausible.

 

The old, "They're using their skin colour to get what they want" argument. Do you seriously think people choose to have these experiences? Come on. 

These are the sorts of privileged attitudes that foster environments like the one in today's article.

Wonder what Jeff has to say about this.

And this may be why having 5 white former cops in the AFL Integrity Unit (in Jimmy Carr’s voice) is maybe not the best idea…

14 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

No. This is far more serious than the Essendon drug saga.

And furthermore, it shouldn't be politicised by relating the issue to "cancel culture".

If an investigation verifies these allegations then it's absolutely one of the worst scandals in the history of our game. 

I was fortunate enough to meet the then Pastor Doug Nicholls, one of our first Indigenous footballers when I was at school in the early 60s and he told us of his experiences when he first came to play at Carlton and was treated as sub human. We should accept no excuses for that conduct even if it happened in the late 1920s but today, it borders on criminal. Anyone connected with this has no place in the game.

I though he played for Fitzroy WJ?

25 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I don’t know about the rest of you, but after the initial shock and disgust, my head went to ‘how many other clubs have had this mindset and for how long?’

Devaluing indigenous people is not new, it’s widespread across institutions and how prevalent it is/was may dictate what penalties occur because maybe we would casting a great deal of people out into the ether…

Such a shame we are here still.

Same here. I honestly thought we were getting somewhere with racism in Australia but now this. So sad on so many levels.

Integrity and ethics are what you do when nobody is watching. 

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

I though he played for Fitzroy WJ?

I reckon you are correct od. 

56 minutes ago, old55 said:

In addition to Jeff Kennett ...

Andrew Newbold was Hawthorn President from 2012-15 and is now on the AFL Commission.

Ian Robson was CEO of Hawthorn from 2005-09 and then of course moved to Essendon in the drug saga period. Now CEO of Rowing Australia.

Stuart Fox was CEO of Hawthorn from 2009-16. Now CEO of the MCC.

Yep, the knock on effect throughout the AFL and other organisations will be felt.

This game got us through lockdowns and was seen as a saviour, right now it's looking like a joke operation. 

Incidentally, we should plan for life after Yze, he will have his pick of jobs soon

52 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

I would probably leave that well alone. I have no time for Jeff Kennett, but am aware that there are a significant mental health issues within his broader family.

With due respect Roger, having significant mental health issues in one's family certainly doesn't mean he should have headed up Beyond Blue.

I want to know how and why, these serious allegations were suppressed for 9 years?

Did this attitude go on for years?

Were players and families paid off to stay quiet?

Edited September 21, 20223 yr by Sir Why You Little

13 minutes ago, CYB said:

Yes. The proof is as far as I know circumstantial.

I find takes like this disturbing. The same can be said for any crime committed away from public view - rape, paedophilia, domestic violence, etc. Doesn't mean that these crimes can't and shouldn't be punished.

I'm all for innocent until proven guilty and all that, but there is a significant (and growing) body of evidence that some seriously abhorrent [censored] went down at Hawthorn. This isn't coming from a single jaded ex-employee - it's coming from multiple ex-players, partners, families etc - and given the standards of the journalist in question, you can be sure that there's corroborating evidence in the form of emails, text messages, etc. Not to mention the early retirement and subsequent comments from Cyril Rioli etc.

On balance, the possibility that the available evidence has been fabricated/ embellished by multiple witnesses appears to be extremely remote.

19 minutes ago, old dee said:

I though he played for Fitzroy WJ?

He did.  After he was discriminated out of Carlton when the trainers refused to rub him down because of the colour of his skin, among other things.

 

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

IF and i stress IF these allegations are proven to be correct, these 2 are in for some serious ramifications.

why has it taken so long to come out? Surely it must have ben knowledge to someone earlier than this

5 minutes ago, faultydet said:

And as usual, the eternally outraged automatically accept every allegation as established fact, and start the bashing of "wHitE mEn" and conservative T.V presenters.

Predictable and pathetic.

 

Yes we must be carefull of the acusation immediately being proven fact . I just hope that the investigation is thorough and complete

1 hour ago, Cam Schwab's Whiteboard said:

The old, "They're using their skin colour to get what they want" argument. Do you seriously think people choose to have these experiences? Come on. 

These are the sorts of privileged attitudes that foster environments like the one in today's article.

Do I think there’s a bunch of people of a certain race or otherwise inventing bad things to get compensation - not at all.

Do I think if someone preparing a report rings up players C and D and said this is what happened to player A and B, then it’s possibly player C throws in his story of a relationship breakdown and puts it on the club. They’d only by the billionth person alive to blame their work for a relationship struggling.

The clubs version of the same story might be the player was in the middle of a nasty relationship breakdown. The club did what they thought was right by offering a place to stay, a new phone to avoid harassment and advice to the player to focus on their career. 

In my initial post I already said some of this is indefensible. And if the most horrific stuff is true - and I have no reason to doubt it - that alone is probably all she wrote for certain individuals. 

But perhaps even more damning is the suggestion it was a prolonged and targeted behaviour not just a couple of isolated incidents over 15 years. Ie, it was a culture. And for that to be the case the investigation needs time to examine a bunch of cases. 

Edited September 21, 20223 yr by DeeSpencer

The sooner this investigation happens the better. 

Really horrible.  Can't say much more. 

This is going to impact every club in the competition now.  There is no way Clarko can stay on if there is any truth in this.  If he goes:

• Assistant coaches everywhere will be looking in with intrigue.  
• Players previously looking to stay may potentially now have no reason to 
• Players looking to come may now change their minds.

 

31 minutes ago, old dee said:

I though he played for Fitzroy WJ?

He briefly trialed at Carlton just before he went to Fitzroy OD. Trainers there refused to massage indigineous players, it was appaling. 

40 minutes ago, CYB said:

Whom ever was being interviewed. 

Do you honestly think anyone would recall such traumatic and triggering events to such fine details for [censored] and giggles?

Of course every word spoken is the person's own, and of course thoughts and feelings are unique to every person, but to suggest those being interviewed made up these horrific allegations is pretty ridiculous. 

I have never met a woman who would lie about having an abortion. And I have never known an Indigenous person to lie about being vilified. If anything, people tend to hide those truths more than reveal them publicly. 

The fact that we keep suggesting over and over again that maybe these stories aren't true, is just our own way to try and deny what is clearly a systemic issue in our society. 

17 minutes ago, faultydet said:

And as usual, the eternally outraged automatically accept every allegation as established fact, and start the bashing of "wHitE mEn" and conservative T.V presenters.

Predictable and pathetic.

 

And backed up by ubiquitous and sustained historical experience…

No one is fired yet, but we are allowed to be appalled.

15 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

I find takes like this disturbing. The same can be said for any crime committed away from public view - rape, paedophilia, domestic violence, etc. Doesn't mean that these crimes can't and shouldn't be punished.

I'm all for innocent until proven guilty and all that, but there is a significant (and growing) body of evidence that some seriously abhorrent [censored] went down at Hawthorn. This isn't coming from a single jaded ex-employee - it's coming from multiple ex-players, partners, families etc - and given the standards of the journalist in question, you can be sure that there's corroborating evidence in the form of emails, text messages, etc. Not to mention the early retirement and subsequent comments from Cyril Rioli etc.

On balance, the possibility that the available evidence has been fabricated/ embellished by multiple witnesses appears to be extremely remote.

I hear you but if this was a trial for rape or paedophilia, you would need much more than witness statement to persecute the perpetrator. From what I read there doesn’t seem to be any factual evidence to support these allegations. It is circumstantial as I can find many holes in the information that has been presented and the way it has been presented. 

My frustration is probably misplaced - as i do hope the truth comes out and justice prevails. I have a mistrust in all things media as they are inherently conflicted in their duties these days to sell papers and I find it just way too coincidental that they decide to release this report on the eve of the GF. 
 

This is why an investigation is being carried out. The skeptics are correct, we don't know full facts and there is a lot to go through. Most of the questions about motives and accusations will be found in due process. 

2 minutes ago, CYB said:

I hear you but if this was a trial for rape or paedophilia, you would need much more than witness statement to persecute the perpetrator. From what I read there doesn’t seem to be any factual evidence to support these allegations. It is circumstantial as I can find many holes in the information that has been presented and the way it has been presented. 

My frustration is probably misplaced - as i do hope the truth comes out and justice prevails. I have a mistrust in all things media as they are inherently conflicted in their duties these days to sell papers and I find it just way too coincidental that they decide to release this report on the eve of the GF. 
 

The ABC doesn’t exist to sell Papers or News Space.