Why did we fade out in games?

[gs77 4,445]

46 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Selwyn worked under Burgess in 21, so I assuming he would have continued with his fitness program, but lets hope the club reviews this and if he points to him he should go.

My worry with this is the Cargo Cult Science issue. There's no point duplicating a program outputs if the inputs have changed - player conditioning, injuries, schedule, etc. I hope the 2021 program wasn't being followed blindly, but rather the methodology for its construction was being followed, allowing for evidence-based evolution. The talk earlier in the year that we were being flogged even harder on the training track and that we'd be even fitter than 2021 worried me. We looked knackered as this year wore on. Sparking out of the blocks, getting leads mid-game, and being steadily reeled in and overrun. Week after week with few exceptions.

[IRW 1,387]

37 minutes ago, gs77 said:

My worry with this is the Cargo Cult Science issue. There's no point duplicating a program outputs if the inputs have changed - player conditioning, injuries, schedule, etc. I hope the 2021 program wasn't being followed blindly, but rather the methodology for its construction was being followed, allowing for evidence-based evolution. The talk earlier in the year that we were being flogged even harder on the training track and that we'd be even fitter than 2021 worried me. We looked knackered as this year wore on. Sparking out of the blocks, getting leads mid-game, and being steadily reeled in and overrun. Week after week with few exceptions.

I suspect it may be as simple as that..flogging a fit horse to make it go faster doesn't work and probably means the horse loses interest or sense of reward.

The other issue is whether Selwyn has the insight to know whether " playin' through injury " is always the best course.

That was not only Trac in the last week of their season.

 

[Smokey 4,389]

I think people tend to forget our physically taxing it must be having every team throw the kitchen sink at us week in week out, and with all of the tops teams doing so in the run home to finals. Our pressure rating was down this year because every team understood they had to bring manic pressure to beat us. That’s hard to match every week. It Doesn’t quite excuse slipping so far down in that stat, but it provides some context. 

That and we’d score a hell of a lot more with a second key forward. 
 

Watch us make the GF next year. Mark my words and quote me in 12 months time. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Smokey

[IRW 1,387]

5 hours ago, Smokey said:

I think people tend to forget our physically taxing it must be having every team throw the kitchen sink at us week in week out, and with all of the tops teams doing so in the run home to finals. Our pressure rating was down this year because every team understood they had to bring manic pressure to beat us. That’s hard to match every week. It Doesn’t quite excuse slipping so far down in that stat, but it provides some context. 

That and we’d score a hell of a lot more with a second key forward. 
 

Watch us make the GF next year. Mark my words and quote me in 12 months time. 

Fair crack..they have never looked like a Dynasty in the making to me but they weren't far off getting to a Prelim anyway.

However every Premiership team gets the kitchen sink and exploratory game plans thrown at them the following year.

They failed that test comprehensively.

It now depends if they are Footscray or Richmond 

[Smokey 4,389]

37 minutes ago, IRW said:

Fair crack..they have never looked like a Dynasty in the making to me but they weren't far off getting to a Prelim anyway.

However every Premiership team gets the kitchen sink and exploratory game plans thrown at them the following year.

They failed that test comprehensively.

It now depends if they are Footscray or Richmond 

They didn’t fail the test during the home and away, we finished 2nd. We had a very poor finals series. 

[IRW 1,387]

15 minutes ago, Smokey said:

They didn’t fail the test during the home and away, we finished 2nd. We had a very poor finals series. 

I said they never looked like a Dynasty in the making,I didn't say they weren't any good. 

Stop being precious...they failed the test thrown at them by the better sides. 

They didn't finish second they finished 5th!

I am not a fan of Goodwin but I will bet he's not saying that's OK we came second!

Edited September 14, 2022 by IRW

[Monbon 1,840]

We should always keep in mind that 2021 was Dreamtime in regard to Injuries. We began 2022 with 2 of the 6 Backline available. McDonald departed in round 10. Max, Salem, Lever Langdon etc all played under niggled stress. That surely played a part.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:24 AM, binman said:

Yep.

And whilst the club put a positive spin on having to play three games at finals intensity in the last three games, of the home and away season, they no doubt had an impact physically - particularly the pies and blues games, which were as brutal as i can ever recall for h&a games,

The lions game was also super physical

And then we ran into the Swans in the q final and they were even more brutal than the Pies or Blues.

No wonder we were banged up.

So the theory that an easy run into finals series is not preferred over a harder fixture is BS? 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

36 minutes ago, Smokey said:

They didn’t fail the test during the home and away, we finished 2nd. We had a very poor finals series. 

We finished 2nd in the H&A due to a 1 point victory with 12s to go. I think it’s fair to say that we probably lose that game 9/10 and the result then becomes 5th which is where we ended up. 

[binman 43,786]

12 minutes ago, CYB said:

So the theory that an easy run into finals series is not preferred over a harder fixture is BS? 

Say again - too many double negatives. 

[Guest]

I think this is at least part of the answer.

September specials: Tightest finals series in more than two decades (afl.com.au)

The amount of free kicks paid to the team behind.   

I think Tigers have probably had it worse than anyone.  In Lions v Tigers first final I counted 23 free kicks in first 3 quarters to team behind to 10 free kicks to team in front.  Reversed in the last quarter 4 to 3.  

Dees v Sydney qualifying final, first 3 quarters, team behind 17 free kicks to 11 for the team in front.  Last quarter 3 free kicks to the team behind to 6 free kicks to the team in front (of course we were behind for most of that quarter).  

Dees v Lions semi-final, team behind in first 3 quarters 16 free.  Team in front 15 free kicks.  Reversed 6 to 4 in last quarter.

Freo v Pies semi-final, first 3 quarters team behind 23 to i think 14 team in front.  

I think it's like this (haven't looked at all of them) for most of our home and away losses.  I think Freo was the only team that really got a hold of us.  

Anyway i suspect teams are aware of this focusing on a territory game - playing forward half, better to give a free kick away as far as possible away from goal.  

And I don't think i counted more than 2 free kicks for us in a row all season, certainly for our losses, has a WWE vibe to it for me. Do the umpires pay what they see?  Or are they umpiring the score?  

Its not just us, Pies had it rough in that first quarter last week v Freo 10 to 4. 

I am not saying it's the only reason for the fade outs, but more than a co-incidence that so many games go right down the wire now and we can't hold a lead and yes of course kicking straight.  I think Pies are managing this umpiring really well.  So it can be done.  

I will add really confident that these next 2 finals will have at least for the first 3 quarters, more free kicks to the team behind.

If there is nothing in it and all 4 teams are on.   I am picking Brisbane v Sydney for the Grand Final.  

  

Edited September 14, 2022 by coconut

[IRW 1,387]

1 hour ago, CYB said:

So the theory that an easy run into finals series is not preferred over a harder fixture is BS? 

we can sure the Cats want an easy game against the Lions and are hoping that the other team in the G/F has survived  a running,  repeat effort   collision mayhem of a contest

[titan_uranus 25,043]

1 hour ago, CYB said:

We finished 2nd in the H&A due to a 1 point victory with 12s to go. I think it’s fair to say that we probably lose that game 9/10 and the result then becomes 5th which is where we ended up. 

If you want to take that approach, Collingwood should have missed finals.

All sides had close games which could have gone either way. 

[bing181 9,328]

Interesting interview summing up the season with Max on the MFC site.

He twice mentions that they'd had a very short break at the end of 2021: "we didn't really stop, we went straight into another pre-season".

We were kicking into the wind from that point on, and it eventually caught up with us. No real surprises, and not the first team to have a bit of a slump after a "first" premiership, even from teams who had the capability and did go on to win more.

The toll it takes to win one is enormous, to win back to back ... Everest.

[bing181 9,328]

"We need a break, we've been going literally since day 1 2021. It's been a two-year campaign."

Max Gawn

[layzie 34,008]

Time for a break then, they'll be back better than ever.

[Smokey 4,389]

17 hours ago, IRW said:

I said they never looked like a Dynasty in the making,I didn't say they weren't any good. 

Stop being precious...they failed the test thrown at them by the better sides. 

They didn't finish second they finished 5th!

I am not a fan of Goodwin but I will bet he's not saying that's OK we came second!

Gee whiz you're good at twisting words, aren't you? 

You said every team that wins a flag gets tested the following year, and that we failed miserably. I pointed out we finished second. How on earth am I being precious? You're worked up about me pointing out simple facts, maybe you should stop being so precious? 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Smokey

[Smokey 4,389]

16 hours ago, CYB said:

We finished 2nd in the H&A due to a 1 point victory with 12s to go. I think it’s fair to say that we probably lose that game 9/10 and the result then becomes 5th which is where we ended up. 

Doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. You can speak in hypotheticals all you like, we finished second and not fifth. 

[1964_2 2,357]

16 hours ago, coconut said:

I think this is at least part of the answer.

September specials: Tightest finals series in more than two decades (afl.com.au)

The amount of free kicks paid to the team behind.   

I think Tigers have probably had it worse than anyone.  In Lions v Tigers first final I counted 23 free kicks in first 3 quarters to team behind to 10 free kicks to team in front.  Reversed in the last quarter 4 to 3.  

Dees v Sydney qualifying final, first 3 quarters, team behind 17 free kicks to 11 for the team in front.  Last quarter 3 free kicks to the team behind to 6 free kicks to the team in front (of course we were behind for most of that quarter).  

Dees v Lions semi-final, team behind in first 3 quarters 16 free.  Team in front 15 free kicks.  Reversed 6 to 4 in last quarter.

Freo v Pies semi-final, first 3 quarters team behind 23 to i think 14 team in front.  

I think it's like this (haven't looked at all of them) for most of our home and away losses.  I think Freo was the only team that really got a hold of us.  

Anyway i suspect teams are aware of this focusing on a territory game - playing forward half, better to give a free kick away as far as possible away from goal.  

And I don't think i counted more than 2 free kicks for us in a row all season, certainly for our losses, has a WWE vibe to it for me. Do the umpires pay what they see?  Or are they umpiring the score?  

Its not just us, Pies had it rough in that first quarter last week v Freo 10 to 4. 

I am not saying it's the only reason for the fade outs, but more than a co-incidence that so many games go right down the wire now and we can't hold a lead and yes of course kicking straight.  I think Pies are managing this umpiring really well.  So it can be done.  

I will add really confident that these next 2 finals will have at least for the first 3 quarters, more free kicks to the team behind.

If there is nothing in it and all 4 teams are on.   I am picking Brisbane v Sydney for the Grand Final.  

  

The AFL is a corrupt socialist organisation. Nothing would surprise. 
 

[IRW 1,387]

26 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Gee whiz you're good at twisting words, aren't you? 

You said every team that wins a flag gets tested the following year, and that we failed miserably. I pointed out we finished second. How on earth am I being precious? You're worked up about me pointing out simple facts, maybe you should stop being so precious? 

I tell you what ..when the seasons over and they print the ladder for the 2020 season have a look at where MFC is placed and get back to me.

It will be 5th.

The test they failed was they could beat the 18th team but ,Lions aside,they pretty much failed to defend their Premiership reputation against the contenders 

And even the Lions at the G in a final sorted them out.Have Brisbane ever won a final in Melbourne before?

I don't know or particularly care but you should stop being precious and accept a disappointing season

 

I will acknowledge " fail" is a harsh label but then " failed to defend a reputation/ Premiership " represents  a different judgement. 

[loges 6,767]

Have Brisbane ever won a final in Melbourne, surely you are joking!

[Kent 2,914]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:11 PM, Smokey said:

I think people tend to forget our physically taxing it must be having every team throw the kitchen sink at us week in week out, and with all of the tops teams doing so in the run home to finals. Our pressure rating was down this year because every team understood they had to bring manic pressure to beat us. That’s hard to match every week. It Doesn’t quite excuse slipping so far down in that stat, but it provides some context. 

That and we’d score a hell of a lot more with a second key forward. 
 

Watch us make the GF next year. Mark my words and quote me in 12 months time. 

How about we kick the gettable goals in the first quarters next year ! Serial offenders are already known.

We would have won at least a few more games if we had including the finals

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

On 9/11/2022 at 5:28 PM, Rocknroll said:

Ben brown banged up cant run

 

Gawn banged up cant run

 

Viney banged up cant run

 

Trac banged up cant run

 

Clarry banged up cause carring others

 

Jacko banged up cant run

 

Kossie banged up cant run

 

Melk old cant run

 

Lingers banged up cant run

 

Spargo banged up cant run

 

You missed... Lever banged up can't run 

Other than that, spot on

[Demonsone 2,044]

Talk from players is there was a 10% drop off in fitness standards since Burgess left....

If true Griffiths needs to depart!

Edited September 15, 2022 by Demonsone

[Demonstone 22,820]

Where did you hear this "talk", fellow poster with an almost perfect username?