Ginnivan within his right to drop his knees, says Dangerfield

 

Jon Pierik

AFL Players Association president Patrick Dangerfield says Collingwood forward Jack Ginnivan does not need to change his playing style amid criticism he drops his knees to secure high-contact free kicks.

Ginnivan’s technique of taking the ball low and rising into a tackle has been a hot topic since the clash against North Melbourne on Saturday. He won two high free kicks for high tackles around the neck but, in a contentious third incident, was not awarded a free for high contact because the umpire felt he swung his arm up to force the tackle to go high.

My View:..................................

Not sure how Danger can condone this. Head high tackles are dangerous and can potentially put the player tackled at risk to concussion, including CTE problems. Again .........in my opinion the AFL needs to not encourage players to initiate head contact if they are serious about the players well being. STOP playing free kicks for this. 

1. It is not in the H & S interest of the player

2. It is  a really bad look, btw all teams have their "Ginnivan" (we have Spargo)

3 They changed to rules before i.e. Bartlett throwing the ball in front to get a free

 

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by Demon_spurs

14 minutes ago, Demon_spurs said:

Not sure how Danger can condone this.

I'm sure it's to do with his captain...If he didn't condone it old Joel and the Cats family would be mighty upset.

I was waiting for someone to post this. If I’m an AFL player I tackle him at the knees. 
If he pops a knee, then tough luck. You  can mount an argument that we were trying to counteract the drop.

 

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by CYB

All those BS frees dried up last year in the finals. If they’re not worthy of being paid as frees in finals, then they shouldn’t be paid in the regular season.

A perfect example was that Scum player that drove his head into the Lions opponent, with the umpire paying a free for a high hit. Utter nonsense.

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by Demon Disciple

My opinion...it's a blight on the game and needs to be stamped out.

Not only that, as you point out it's dangerous.

At the start of the season all indications were that the umpires would crack down on it.

...but then again, Scott's in high places.

I am concerned that the media have made it a Ginnivan verses the rest issue as now every [censored] magpie thinks it's a conspiracy against them...

If anything the issue would be attribute to Selwood, the instigator of this stupid tactic and not a kid at the start of his career..it should never have gotten this far down the line. Should have been outlawed back when it started.

The point is, it should be so easy to stop. If a player deliberately drops his knees or ducks into a tackle, then penalise him. And yes there will be howling from the media, but really it's a no brainer (sic)

 

Waiting for when a player gets his neck broken when milking a high tackle free and then suing the AFL for encouraging dangerous play that could cause injury. 

And further to the Dangerfield logic

Ginnivan’s style could open him up to concussions and head trauma if he is regularly tackled high but Dangerfield said there was no need for a complete rule change.

4 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

Waiting for when a player gets his neck broken when milking a high tackle free and then suing the AFL for encouraging dangerous play that could cause injury. 

Our game is played at such high speed, this will eventually happen. To sit down by the fence and see how hard the contact is in a game of AFL it's frightening. so while we at it stop calling players like Selwood and Ginnivan "Brave and Warrior like"  

Someone is gunna pay ...big time

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by Demon_spurs

8 minutes ago, Demon_spurs said:

And further to the Dangerfield logic

Ginnivan’s style could open him up to concussions and head trauma if he is regularly tackled high but Dangerfield said there was no need for a complete rule change.

Ginnivan and Dangerfield. A couple of Rhode scholars with a masters degree in medicine. 

Shouldn't Danger just be focused on shortening games and the season to keep his career going? 

Ping the stagers retrospectively - 3 weeks on the sidelines (minimum) There is no other way to fix the problem

And it's only going to get worse.  rjay summed it up perfectly, it's a blight on the game

The umpires are unable to differentiate a genuine high tackle vs a staged high tackle.  It all happens so quickly that none of us know for sure until we see a replay but by then it's too late

Personally, I wouldn't pay high contact frees unless the head & neck area are deliberately targeted. 

Most of the high contact frees are frivolous anyway

So don't pay the frivolous high contact free kicks and retrospectively ban the stagers as well

3 weeks minimum on the sidelines and the players will stop staging

Or do nothing and the issue gets worse

A player one day will follow through as they know they have him high due to him doing this and will end up hurting him.

I’ll have zero sympathy for him when it happens, no matter the injury.

Surely the solution is for the umpires to make their decisions based on where initial contact was made and by whom.

For example, a legitimate tackle high on the arms of the tacklee that then slides to the shoulders by the actions of the tacklee? Play on. Simple. Any attempt to wriggle into a high contact is to be ignored.

Who made the contact? If the tacklee drives his head into the body of the tackler, play on. Simple. So long as the tackler was stationary as is mostly the case.

It was always the rule that the frees were won from the contest, not from trying to con the umpires. With three umps on the field this should be easy to stamp out.

If this doesn't work then I would agree with Macca that there should be consequences for cheating and bringing the game into disrepute. The stagers should be staged out of the game.

 

15 minutes ago, tiers said:

Surely the solution is for the umpires to make their decisions based on where initial contact was made and by whom.

For example, a legitimate tackle high on the arms of the tacklee that then slides to the shoulders by the actions of the tacklee? Play on. Simple. Any attempt to wriggle into a high contact is to be ignored.

Who made the contact? If the tacklee drives his head into the body of the tackler, play on. Simple. So long as the tackler was stationary as is mostly the case.

It was always the rule that the frees were won from the contest, not from trying to con the umpires. With three umps on the field this should be easy to stamp out.

If this doesn't work then I would agree with Macca that there should be consequences for cheating and bringing the game into disrepute. The stagers should be staged out of the game.

 

Tiers is correct, it really should easy to stamp out. But the Neanderthals of this world will scream that we are de...manning...the sport. But it won't be them pushing the wheelchair.

Let him go. 

Let the competition do what it deems necessary to combat it. If it was me  tackling I would not the concerned about going lower - I'd cop the free/50m/2 weeks on the sideline.

if he wants head high contact - too easy he gets it and has his jaw broken at the same time. He won't do it again

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by Sideshow Bob

Tracc just said on 360 he wasn’t aware that ducking was prior opportunity and could be pinged for holding the ball.

Don’t Coaches update players on new rules?

2 hours ago, Demon_spurs said:

Our game is played at such high speed, this will eventually happen. To sit down by the fence and see how hard the contact is in a game of AFL it's frightening. so while we at it stop calling players like Selwood and Ginnivan "Brave and Warrior like"  

Someone is gunna pay ...big time

.... and some poor guy will be riddled with guilt, and vilification.

And of course the AFL HQ will wring their hands and say "how unfortunate, nothing we could do"!

Just now, Redleg said:

Tracc just said on 360 he wasn’t aware that ducking was prior opportunity and could be pinged for holding the ball.

Don’t Coaches update players on new rules?

Should be HTB every time - Selwood, and Minivan would whinge like hell.

3 hours ago, CYB said:

I was waiting for someone to post this. If I’m an AFL player I tackle him at the knees. 
If he pops a knee, then tough luck. You  can mount an argument that we were trying to counteract the drop.

 

Either that or tackle with a swinging arm. If the duckers cop a decent belt around the ears it might make them think twice before doing it again.

3 hours ago, rjay said:

My opinion...it's a blight on the game and needs to be stamped out.

Not only that, as you point out it's dangerous.

At the start of the season all indications were that the umpires would crack down on it.

...but then again, Scott's in high places.

I am concerned that the media have made it a Ginnivan verses the rest issue as now every [censored] magpie thinks it's a conspiracy against them...

If anything the issue would be attribute to Selwood, the instigator of this stupid tactic and not a kid at the start of his career..it should never have gotten this far down the line. Should have been outlawed back when it started.

Problem is the kids coming through have grown up doing this their whole careers now since Selwood started the rubbish in 2007. There's been plenty of them coming through, McLean and Hunter at the Dogs, Mathieson at the Lions and yes Spargo and to a lesser extent Pickett. Now Ginnivan and even Pendlebury has started at the Magpies and you're completely correct, it should've been knocked on the head 15 years ago!

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Problem is the kids coming through have grown up doing this their whole careers now since Selwood started the rubbish in 2007. There's been plenty of them coming through, McLean and Hunter at the Dogs, Mathieson at the Lions and yes Spargo and to a lesser extent Pickett. Now Ginnivan and even Pendlebury has started at the Magpies and you're completely correct, it should've been knocked on the head 15 years ago!

Its an easy fix, penalise the players that do it. Free kick against for holding the ball/prior opportunity of disposal. Why is is so hard? 

Penalise them off field more. First offence a fine and from then on suspensions. Put money where mouth is, it is the only way.

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Problem is the kids coming through have grown up doing this their whole careers now since Selwood started the rubbish in 2007. There's been plenty of them coming through, McLean and Hunter at the Dogs, Mathieson at the Lions and yes Spargo and to a lesser extent Pickett. Now Ginnivan and even Pendlebury has started at the Magpies and you're completely correct, it should've been knocked on the head 15 years ago!

100x this. We all knew it was a blight on the game and went against everything the AFL claimed to be doing to protect the head when Selwood started doing. Now kids have grown up practicing and perfecting the “art”.  Gutless by the AFL.  Unfortunately no one is surprised. 

Presumably the purpose of the rule way back when was to protect people from coat hanger tackles.  But we panalise players for just touching someone on the shoulder and lots of other tackles which present no danger.  What if they didn't pay frees for those minor above the shoulder incidents?  Then perhaps they'd be no incentive to do a Selwood because what he and his imitators do does not result in any danger to their health and so would not draw a free.