On 25/07/2022 at 10:26, deespicable me said:

Goodwins major move in the last 5 minutes was to send May forward.

It kind of wasn't actually...Bevo sent Naughton back and May followed him.

So Bevo the master coach in effect put May forward.

  On 25/07/2022 at 09:18, deespicable me said:

Firstly I don't believe we are in a loading phase. I think we have held on to a game plan far too long that has been dissected and beaten and we refuse to change.

How come we've been in winning positions in pretty much every game we've lost?

Would seem the plan was working ok.

Did the brilliant opposition coaches finally dissect our plan by half time and run over us? took them long enough.

Or, were they playing rope a dope...let us win the first half then come out with their real plan after the break.

 

  On 25/07/2022 at 10:26, deespicable me said:

Oh, I didn't realise I was being so negative. I really like the reference to Brent Grigc. I don't think it's all doom and gloom though. I just think that we've more than come back to the pack and we need to re-invent ourselves a bit. We have a good list and yet we are going through a period where our weaknesses and inefficiencies are being exposed.

As to Luke Beveridge I think tactically he is superior to Goodwin. Goodwins major move in the last 5 minutes was to send May forward. Dogs couldn't win this year, they over-achieved last year, but they were an improved side on Saturday night from what we have seen. He has done a good job to keep them relevant while they improve their list.

I think it’s too early to tell where we stand. Jordan is slow but so is gus. Us being exploited with run is more than one wingers problem I think. There seems to be a defensive team that involves the forward flanks the wings and the midfield. They seem to fire as one or not. Lately there’s been a lot of not. Like last year through winter. Not drawing comparison to prove any point but it’s no different. I think Bevo relies on emotion too much rather than tactical nous.  Goodwin sticks to his guns which in the short term can be painful but may be the best season long strategy. His coaching ethos does seem to differ to a lot of coaches. If we get to a grand final again his stubbornness will prove to be a great tactic. May wasn’t sent forward, he followed his opponent. We seem to want our players to work it out and learn for themselves which I think is a good long term strategy. 

  On 25/07/2022 at 10:17, Pipefitter said:

The equation is easy. 
 

We win = Not loading 

We lose = Loading 

Nailed it

  On 25/07/2022 at 00:12, Vipercrunch said:

Here's the rough map of how I think our loads could have looked using the 10 Percent Rule, which is the rule of thumb for improving running milage.  This method is all about increasing milage (and therefore fitness) without risking injury.  Like many rule of thumbs, there is a lot of conjecture about this one, especially that is is too conservative for experienced and elite runners (which AFL players would be), but it is still a useful principle to look at the method athletes use to increase performance.

1. Round 1 to 9 (WCE) on May 15th we were in maintenance phase at whatever level was reached after our shortened preseason, with minimal (if any) increase in load.
2. Round 10 to 13 (NMFC, Freo, Syd, Coll) - the first phase of the build, incrementally increasing the training load by 10% each week.  If 100% is our maintenance week load, we would have gone 110%, 121%, 133% then 146% in the week before the Collingwood game.
3. 9 day break with the BYE Round - Recovery phase, so reduce training amount by two-thirds of previous week, meaning we are back to 98%.  Come out looking the freshest we have looked for many weeks against Brisbane.
4. Round 16 to 19 (Adel, Cats, Port, Dogs) - Back to loading, starting with a 10% increase from our previous load week (146%) so it is 161%, 177%, 195% then 214% of our original maintence training load.
5. Round 20, reovery week,  so back down to 144%, which because of the work done over the previous 9 weeks, the players can now manage easily, meaning we come out looking fresh against Freo.  Hopefully.
6. Round 21 onwards - back to a maintenance program, which could be at the 214% level, or they might hold at a lower level given they want to maintain "peak" for 8 weeks.

All of this is load is monitored using GPS (recording distance and intensity of milage), plus other metrics that ensure the individuals are reaching but not exceeding the desired fatigue levels.  Using GPS monitoring in games and at training means they can better handle loads despite varied length of breaks between games etc.

If the increased load AFL players can safely manage is actually say 15%, the peak week of the program outlined above would be 306% of the original starting load, which is incredible.

Reckon you'll find we started the week before the St Kilda game. Often you get the little zoom the first week and then performance starts to plateau. If you remember the first half of the St Kilda game we were brutal. Probably the best half we've played this year.

  On 25/07/2022 at 11:06, von said:

I think Bevo relies on emotion too much rather than tactical nous.  Goodwin sticks to his guns which in the short term can be painful but may be the best season long strategy. His coaching ethos does seem to differ to a lot of coaches. If we get to a grand final again his stubbornness will prove to be a great tactic. May wasn’t sent forward, he followed his opponent. We seem to want our players to work it out and learn for themselves which I think is a good long term strategy. 

Couldn't agree more Von. Well said. It's the long term strategy "system" coaches vs the "tactical" coaches who like to move the magnets around and even try to rev up the players with us vs them pep talks.

  On 25/07/2022 at 10:32, deespicable me said:

Yeah sure we're second with a bullet. We're loading and about to explode again and go undefeated for the rest of the year. Personally I think you're clutching at straws. But I'll be very happy to be wrong.

At least we’re not 18th with a bullet like those poor basterds down at Arden St 

 

Edited July 25, 20222 yr by Delusional demon 82

  On 25/07/2022 at 09:18, deespicable me said:

I have a theory that isn't on here so I'll opinionate and if wrong happy to be pulled up.

Firstly I don't believe we are in a loading phase. I think we have held on to a game plan far too long that has been dissected and beaten and we refuse to change.

Secondly the major difference for me is mental fatigue. We are not handling being the "hunted". All our losses we have been trying to hold on and our opposition has run over the top of us. It's hard work. It's not as much fun and all we feel after a win is relief. Not a natural uplifting joy. Well certainly not as much as last year. We are not "loading" we are tired. Mentally fatigued. This is easy enough to fix but Goodwin and co. are super slow to do anything at this point.

Thirdly "Jimmy's wing is Broken". Our defensive wing has been picked apart and is not working anymore. We are slow and predictable and our turn-overs here are killing us. Jimmy Jordan whenever he gets the ball stops and props then kicks down the line to a tall. There is no speed or dare. Jimmy is a lovely bloke but in the words of Jack Elliot he is "a good ordinary footballer". He needs to be re-invented. This wing is the source of the problem with other aspects of our game including Salem, Bowey and Brayshaw. This brings me to number four

Brayshaw is not being used to his capacity. Goodwin said he was reluctant to move Brayshaw. He should try the opposite. Every position he has played he has mastered. He is a GUN. Look at the way Dogs use their midfielders. Duncan is played everywhere. Bont goes wherever he feels he is needed. They are much more flexible. Brayshaw being stuck in the backline is stupid. No wonder he wants to leave. He should be played in a variety of positions as required from forward to back. His marking is a weapon. His strength is similar to a Dusty. Leave him one out in the forward line and he'd win every contest.

Furthermore if we lose Brayshaw I'll be ropable. We need to sign him up and promise him the next Captaincy when he and Max think it appropriate.

So for a start Jordan out. And move Brayshaw. 

1. Who said anything about brayshaw wanting to leave? There’s no evidence of that.

2. Assuming he did want to leave, why the hell would you give the captaincy to someone apparently not fully committed to the club as a means of enticing him to stay? That’s bad for culture. Just look at what happened with Congilio and GWS.

3. Brayshaw has had his best season in four years playing in his current position, almost a borderline all-Australian. Hardly someone who is not being used to his capacity.

4. The whole “we don’t want it enough”,  argument is overly simplistic, and the fourth-quarter fade-outs would be a result of physical fatigue, rather than mental, which is strong evidence of a loading phase. That being said, teams working us out could very well also be a factor in our current form.

 

  On 25/07/2022 at 10:06, DubDee said:

Interesting theory 

if we don’t look much fitter over the next month would you be willing to say your theory is incorrect?

I would 

  On 25/07/2022 at 10:56, rjay said:

How come we've been in winning positions in pretty much every game we've lost?

Would seem the plan was working ok.

Did the brilliant opposition coaches finally dissect our plan by half time and run over us? took them long enough.

Or, were they playing rope a dope...let us win the first half then come out with their real plan after the break.

 

This is what I don't understand when people call for the gameplan to be overhauled. 

It's like the gameplan was working well right up until the last minute. 

Edited July 25, 20222 yr by layzie

Interestingly, there is some footage up on the MFC socials today, showing an intense, full contact training session from this morning. In line with what @binmanand others have been saying, I remember these types of sessions starting to take place this time last year. It’s only a few clips, but it looks like the intensity and focus has lifted - certainly the ‘feel’ of the group seems to have intensified (in the last few weeks, I’d thought that the mood was quite flat).

  On 27/07/2022 at 10:26, 3183 Dee said:

Interestingly, there is some footage up on the MFC socials today, showing an intense, full contact training session from this morning. In line with what @binmanand others have been saying, I remember these types of sessions starting to take place this time last year. It’s only a few clips, but it looks like the intensity and focus has lifted - certainly the ‘feel’ of the group seems to have intensified (in the last few weeks, I’d thought that the mood was quite flat).

This seems to be at odds to  what I'd have thought was the case? (unless the sessions are short and sharp).  Intuitively I'd have thought intense match simulation sessions would cause more fatigue than other training styles. 

  On 27/07/2022 at 11:07, DemonWA said:

This seems to be at odds to  what I'd have thought was the case? (unless the sessions are short and sharp).  Intuitively I'd have thought intense match simulation sessions would cause more fatigue than other training styles. 

We're loading to win the 6v7 elimination final by 15 goals

  On 25/07/2022 at 11:44, Stu said:

Couldn't agree more Von. Well said. It's the long term strategy "system" coaches vs the "tactical" coaches who like to move the magnets around and even try to rev up the players with us vs them pep talks.

Problem is we have been on the receiving end of those emotionally driven performances a lot this year. It happened last year against the Pies as well. 

  On 27/07/2022 at 10:26, 3183 Dee said:

Interestingly, there is some footage up on the MFC socials today, showing an intense, full contact training session from this morning. In line with what @binmanand others have been saying, I remember these types of sessions starting to take place this time last year. It’s only a few clips, but it looks like the intensity and focus has lifted - certainly the ‘feel’ of the group seems to have intensified (in the last few weeks, I’d thought that the mood was quite flat).

100% agree 3183 ....... and this was borne out by Kade Chandler, who in his interview today, used words like, "today was one of the most intense training sessions I've ever been part of ......"

  On 27/07/2022 at 11:07, DemonWA said:

This seems to be at odds to  what I'd have thought was the case? (unless the sessions are short and sharp).  Intuitively I'd have thought intense match simulation sessions would cause more fatigue than other training styles. 

I think - and this is pure speculation on my part - that the heavy loading has been done through (I guess) gym and track work and now the emphasis seems to have shifted to gameplay.

Listen, I could be completely wrong here, but I remember watching the training vids that were released last year, where the focus seemed very much on the players as a group, reinforcing the ‘team spirit’. That was the vibe I got after watching the footage today.

 

  On 27/07/2022 at 11:55, 3183 Dee said:

I think - and this is pure speculation on my part - that the heavy loading has been done through (I guess) gym and track work and now the emphasis seems to have shifted to gameplay.

Listen, I could be completely wrong here, but I remember watching the training vids that were released last year, where the focus seemed very much on the players as a group, reinforcing the ‘team spirit’. That was the vibe I got after watching the footage today.

 

Totally get it. But for me the change in intensity in training seems at odds with the suggestion that our form has been effected by loading. The opposite almost seems plausible- ie. The harder we train the better we play, and you can't train super hard all year so we leave it to the end of the season haha. 

I assume loading is more about gym work and km's in the legs, but it's an interesting contradiction 

@DemonWA I appreciate the confusion.

There are two factors to consider.

Intensity and volume.

- actually 3 - frequency, intensity and duration/volume 

Eg: lower intensity vs high volume - high intensity vs lower volume.

Volume is now sorted. 

*apologies, done with words today, others can elaborate. 

Edited July 27, 20222 yr by Engorged Onion

  On 27/07/2022 at 12:10, Engorged Onion said:

@DemonWA I appreciate the confusion.

There are two factors to consider.

Intensity and volume.

- actually 3 - frequency, intensity and duration/volume 

Eg: lower intensity vs high volume - high intensity vs lower volume.

Volume is now sorted. 

*apologies, done with words today, others can elaborate. 

I get it. I was more musing out aloud than really suggesting anti-loading theory. Carry on 

Regular programming resumed.

  On 27/07/2022 at 12:35, DemonWA said:

I get it. I was more musing out aloud than really suggesting anti-loading theory. Carry on 

All good, I didn’t think you were fuelling the anti-loading propaganda machine 👌😎- if others haven’t added to it by tomorrow - I’ll add a bit more after a morning coffee.

my musings re: what was assumed to be witnessed at training, is that it all bodes very well and fits in neatly with any elite performance program (that I have been exposed to). #notthatitguarenteesoutcomes 👍

Edited July 27, 20222 yr by Engorged Onion

  On 27/07/2022 at 11:58, DemonWA said:

Totally get it. But for me the change in intensity in training seems at odds with the suggestion that our form has been effected by loading. The opposite almost seems plausible- ie. The harder we train the better we play, and you can't train super hard all year so we leave it to the end of the season haha. 

I assume loading is more about gym work and km's in the legs, but it's an interesting contradiction 

Burgess went into some detail on this either in one of his podcasts or an interview late last year. 

Others can explain it better, but I recall him talking about maintaining levels, rather than increasing them as you do through the loading period. So from this respect my understanding was the “tapering period” is not the same as what it would be for an athletic event for example. 

And he also went into detail to explain why in his view it was worth risking injury, to have a really intense match sim style training the Sat before the GF (during the week off)  vs a more cruisy session, which I believe the dogs had. 

So they will still be training really hard/intensely from here on in, but not at volumes that risks heavy legs like we see during some of the loading weeks. 
 

Edited July 27, 20222 yr by 1964_2

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/series-2-episode-1-it-s-a-grand-old-flag/id1519942623?i=1000538171645
 

 

Why is it that people immediately go to 'loading' as the cause/reason behind performance change or training level without giving due weight to other factors. 

And why is one heavy training session per Chandler considered 'loading'.  It makes sense that training levels will wax and wane from week to week depending on travel, days between games etc.  That doesn't mean we are loading when there is an intense training session.  Nor that it means the whole team is doing the intense training session. 

There are lots of variables.  Listen to the various interviews this week and folks will see what hasn't been working and why training standards needed to lift.

Based on this thread we have been loading since round 7 or 8.

Edited July 27, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

  On 27/07/2022 at 12:46, Engorged Onion said:

I didn’t think you were fuelling the anti-loading propaganda machine 👌😎-

Who are the posters 'fuelling the anti loading propaganda machine'?

Edited July 27, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero