The top 5 MFC coaches of your lifetime

[Guest]

With Goody re-signing for two more years today, I though this would be a good time to post this as it's been something that I've been thinking about for a while since Goody won the flag.

I've experienced 7 coaches during my lifetime and for years and years, Neale was the best coach I had seen. Most people would automatically place a premiership coach at the top of any list and our 2021 has made me slightly reassess my view of who the best coach of my lifetime has been.

Thus, I'd like to provide my list and see what others think in terms of the best coaches of their lifetime. The rules are that they need to be full time coaches (not interim coaches or when they were coaches in waiting like Goody in '14-'16) and had to be coaching while you have been alive. Norm Smith is a monty for most people based on his record alone, but if you didn't see him coach the team, then he can't go on your list. While your entries don't have to be as wordy as mine (I love a good tl:dr post), if you could give some reasoning to your entry, then that would be brilliant.

So here we go.

1) Neale Daniher: I appreciate this could be perceived by many as a hot take, and I know that Neale has his legitimate detractors. I expect to get some flack for this opinion. However, I do have my logic for it which I'd like to explain and a caveat I'd like to put on it.

I've always wondered what kind of coach Neale would have been had he walked into a club that was functional and had a playing list that had the pure class of the one Goody had. From 1998 to 2006, our record for making the finals was the second best for Victorian teams behind Essendon. We made a grand final we probably shouldn't have played in (Carlton for mine were the second best team that year and were hit by the injury stick in the finals) against a team we were never going to beat. Every second or third year, there was some type of calamity facing the club: wooden spoons in '97 and the factions that emerged after the failed merger vote, salary cap breaches unveiled in 1999 resulting in us losing our draft picks and getting fined, board spills in 2001, Gardner admitting we were  losing 1 million dollars a week (correct me on the figure if you will) in 2002 before the competitive balance fund was thankfully put in, fights in pubs, training at Junction Oval with the portable offices with the dead possums in them, having to pass the hat around to find the salary for Aaron Davey because the club had no dedicated fund for drafting rookies, having to hold telethons to get members on the Footy Show in 2001, selling games etc. It wasn't an environment that was great for creating success.

Yet despite that, Neale got the absolute most out of what at times was a pretty patchwork list. His reign also saw two highly successful coaches get their spurs as assistants (Clarko was the runner and did some fitness work in Neale's first year and we all know about Chris Fagan) and other players were under his charge who became good assistant coaches as well (Ooze and Cam Bruce).

Neale was also the most diligent, committed and systematic coach of my time. No stone was left unturned, systems were put in place, his intensity and passion unquestioned and yet, his relationships with his players these days are still magnificent. He made his mistakes for sure (Woey's contract details getting made public was a big mistake and his reliance on certain blokes who probably let him down at times come to mind), but the overall package for mine is still the best.

His long term record over a longer period is what makes Neale still my number one coach. Now here is the caveat. I have no doubt that in the next 2 to 3 years he will become a clear 2nd spot on this list. Goody will have been at the club for a good seven years by the time his contract ends with potential for a stint of a decade. He clearly has the team to win further premiershps (while Neale had a good ordinary team at best) which was largely in the mix when he took up the hot seat. I think Goody himself has admitted that had he walked into the 2014 version of MFC as coach, he might not have had the longevity he has had. I think that had he gotten into a time machine and coached the 1998 Melbourne team, who knows what might have happened? Probably not best to work on counterfactuals and speculation, but because Neale did and eked out as much as he did, he still is my number one (barely).

2) Simon Goodwin: I have covered most of why I've put Goody here, and some might think I was putting Goody down. Trust me when I say that he is an absolutely sensational coach and will very likely be at the top of this list once his stint at Melbourne is over (barring a meltdown of epic proportions). 

I remember after Bails was sacked and Neeld was brought in, we were a fairly irascible and aggravated bunch on here. For us, the sole qualification that a head coach needed to have was the ability to bollock players in perpetuity until they ceded to the abuse and played well. Who would have thought that a bloke who, according to Ed Langdon, has yet to raise his voice since 2020 onwards has been only one of four men to be Melbourne premiership coaches? Goody knows who he is, is comfortable with being vulnerable, is a magnificent relationship builder and is often underestimated for his coaching nous. Binman pointed out that a lot of his moves in the 2021 season him  switching Dogga into the ruck and establishing the best zone defence since Collingwood's forward press in 2011 showed that he is no slouch on the tactical front.

He has also managed to overcome personal hardships as well. We've all had plenty of arguments over whether Bartlett was right to do what he did, but let's make no mistake, it did put Goody under the pump. He admitted he became a hermit at the end of 2020 and he needed to work on himself. It's pretty brave to admit that and we can see the results right now how tight he is with his team. They want to play for him and would run through a brick wall for him.

If all goes well in September, I look forward to revisiting this list in 4 months time to make him my definite number one as he will unambigiuously deserve it should we win another flag (or make another Grand Final or Prelim).

3) Swooper Northey: Similar to Neale in that while he had some genuinely good players under his charge (Garry Lyon, Jimmy Stynes, Todd Viney, Brett Lovett, Sean Wight), the list was kind of prosaic in certain places. He had lots of blokes who were decent triers but when they were put up against the Horrible Hawks, West Coast or Gary Ablett led Geelong teams, they just lacked that edge in genuine class. 

Swooper was very much a meat and potatoes coach, and it suited for the times. He was coach at the tail end of the amateur age so you didn't need to make things too difficult as a coach. You could definitely see he was a Tommy Hafey disciple, but it suited our blokes right down to the ground. 

I fell in love with the Melbourne Football Club when Swooper was coach so he will always hold a special place in my heart. His reign actually provided me with a slightly rude shock in 1997 as up until that point, I had only experienced highly competitive (if in hindsight flawed) Melbourne teams. When we won the spoon that year, it was the first time I'd seen a totally hopeless Melbourne team. 

Swooper also had decent showings at Brisbane and Richmond as well. A genuinely great Melbourne person. I wonder if he has life membership? I know Geelong granted Malcolm Blight life membership not long ago despite not being formally eligible. Swoop has definitely stayed true to the Demons (with a divided loyalty with Richmond).

4) Paul Roos: Paul Roos' record at first glance at Melbourne was ordinary if we just look at the numbers. Furthermore, his record at Sydney easily overshadows  Let's put that out there now.

However, that was never his brief. Anyone who has been on this board from 2013 onwards (I joined in 2012) would be familiar with what he was tasked with: rebuilding a club that was fundamentally broken. He definitely created the bedrock that Goody was able to build upon. He inherited a horrendous team and turned it into a solidly competitive one. Goody turned it into a premiership team. 

There has been plenty of debate about who deserved the most credit for last year's success: Goody or Roos? For mine, if Roosy had welched on his deal and coached the team into 2021, we wouldn't have won the flag. My feeling is that parts of the game plan he employed mightn't have stacked up as well with the 2021 game and while a great coach and master relationship builder, his persona was better at dragging teams out of the muck rather than the guy to take a team to the next level. With that said and as stated above, I have always felt that had Goody walked into the 2014 MFC as head coach, he mightn't have lasted more than 3 years. We really needed a bloke to make us respectable and Roosy was it.

5) Neil Balme: Ask me if Neil would have made my top 5 coaches in 1997 when I was a punk teenager, and I would have chortled at you. Around that time, I felt he was an oaf who had coddled the players excessively and used a game plan that was iconoclastic in terms of how football had been played for the sake of it. He was the first coach I had seen who had coached Melbourne to a spoon so that colored my perspective somewhat somewhat.

24 years down the track, I realize Balmey was probably ahead of his time but like ND, had walked into a situation that couldn't take full advantage of his talents. Look at those 2007 Geelong teams and you can definitely see his fingerprints all over the game plan (supposedly Bomber wanted a game plan that emphasized much more conservative ball movement). In hindsight, the roles he has taken up post Melbourne have suited his very laid back personality to an absolute tea. 

His early years at Melbourne weren't too shabby either. We would have made the finals in any other year beside 1993 (the greatest season that was). Our 1994 was up and down but by the time September came around, he had his best team on the ground and we reacted accordingly.  In the end, we played against a West Coast team that in the words of Paul Couch had been eating 'very good steaks' and it felt like we were the 8 year olds playing at the U 12 Auskick. But that year was one of our better ones based on who was on the pitch.

From 1995 onwards, it all turned to cow manure and Neil's personality probably prevented him from giving a few blokes a much needed bake. It was said that the embryotic signs of Hollywood Boulevard emerged on his watch (which would be a problem for the club in future decades). But among the seven coaches who have coached us, he is a definite top 5 pick. Bails might have gotten in but at the end of the day, he had no finals appearance and was a tale of wasted potential (and we have all been over the Neeld era so there is no need to rehash that).

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Mincho Mania 530]

1: Neil Balme for telling the players they could only kick Torps and Drop Kicks at training

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Smith, Goodwin, Northey, Daniher, Dennis Jones.

[tiers 2,829]

As I attended the 1964 GF and have been a supporter since the 50s so I have no choice but to place Norm Smith first.

Second is Simon Goodwin. A premiership gets you to the top of the list.

Third John Northey who took a young, struggling group to five consecutive years of finals. Old style coach who got the best out his team.

Fourth is Neale Daniher. Notwithstanding the mess we were in in 1997, in 1998 he inherited a team that recruited White, drafted Johnstone and recovered from injury Lyon, Tingay, G Lovett, Schwarz to play in the finals in his first year. A brain fade in the preliminary final possibly cost us a chance to beat Adelaide again in the GF. Consecutive years in the finals eluded us until 04, 05 and 06 so that we were not consistent. A wasted era.

Fifth is Neil Balme. His tenure was blighted by injuries to key players to the extent that in one game (forgot year) our key forward position selections were Charles and Farmer. There was no-one else. His one good year was 1994 (notably due to Lyon and Schwarz who were missing thereafter) but he did discover Neitz's forward ability and had the courage to play his best player in the forward line and not at CHB where he had starred.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

1 minute ago, Tony Tea said:

Smith, Goodwin, Northey, Daniher, Dennis Jones.

Sorry, Balmey. Sorry, Roosy. Dishonourable mentions.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Just now, Tony Tea said:

Sorry, Balmey. Sorry, Roosy. Dishonourable mentions.

Speaking of dishonourable mentions - sorry, Neeldy.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tony Tea said:

Sorry, Balmey. Sorry, Roosy. Dishonourable mentions.

I've heard much of Dennis Jones during my time here through the almost terrified whispers of those who lived through the era. He's almost like a sasquatch style myth because of how bad his one year was apparently. 

Was he actually worse than Neeld?

[rpfc 28,353]

Goodwin. Premiership. Winning percentage. Honest.

Daniher. Brought back the resolve and demand to the club to be good. Got the most out of a run of the mill list.

Roos. Set up the club for sustained success with his installed culture from Sydney.

Northey. Too young but he would be 4th

Balme. Top bloke.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

3 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I've heard much of Dennis Jones during my time here through the almost terrified whispers of those who lived through the era. He's almost like a sasquatch style myth because of how bad his one year was apparently. 

Was he actually worse than Neeld?

He's an evil legend among all my Demon supporting school friends.

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

11 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I've heard much of Dennis Jones during my time here through the almost terrified whispers of those who lived through the era. He's almost like a sasquatch style myth because of how bad his one year was apparently. 

Was he actually worse than Neeld?

Nobody can remember….

[dl4e 5,851]

I was too young to remember Smith so I can't include him.

Daniher

Northey

Goodwin

Roos

Skilton

[Diamond_Jim 12,567]

Northey gave a club hope for that he deserves No 1

As much as I enjoyed the 2021 premiership the roller coaster ride of 1987 and 1988 will forever be with me.

2. Goodwin

3. Daniher

4. Balme

5. Not sure.... I'm a little ambivalent on the Roo's legacy... personally I'd give it to Yze and Choco because there is little doubt they provided some magic dust for Goodwin's success

[DubDee 25,764]

1. Goodwin. By a long way

2. Daniher

3. Roos

that is all

[wonnabeeri 275]

Yze. 100% win rate says it all. 
Goodwin. 54% win rate and a premiership
Northey. 54% win rate. 1 Grand final and what should have been another one.
Roos. Only 31% win rate, but saved the club.
Daniher. 48% win rate and one gf perfomance. The up and down every year was a killer as a supporter though. Top bloke though.

[DeeZone 9,798]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

With Goody re-signing for two more years today, I though this would be a good time to post this as it's been something that I've been thinking about for a while since Goody won the flag.

I've experienced 7 coaches during my lifetime and for years and years, Neale was the best coach I had seen. Most people would automatically place a premiership coach at the top of any list and our 2021 has made me slightly reassess my view of who the best coach of my lifetime has been.

Thus, I'd like to provide my list and see what others think in terms of the best coaches of their lifetime. The rules are that they need to be full time coaches (not interim coaches or when they were coaches in waiting like Goody in '14-'16) and had to be coaching while you have been alive. Norm Smith is a monty for most people based on his record alone, but if you didn't see him coach the team, then he can't go on your list. While your entries don't have to be as wordy as mine (I love a good tl:dr post), if you could give some reasoning to your entry, then that would be brilliant.

So here we go.

1) Neale Daniher: I appreciate this could be perceived by many as a hot take, and I know that Neale has his legitimate detractors. I expect to get some flack for this opinion. However, I do have my logic for it which I'd like to explain and a caveat I'd like to put on it.

I've always wondered what kind of coach Neale would have been had he walked into a club that was functional and had a playing list that had the pure class of the one Goody had. From 1998 to 2006, our record for making the finals was the second best for Victorian teams behind Essendon. We made a grand final we probably shouldn't have played in (Carlton for mine were the second best team that year and were hit by the injury stick in the finals) against a team we were never going to beat. Every second or third year, there was some type of calamity facing the club: wooden spoons in '97 and the factions that emerged after the failed merger vote, salary cap breaches unveiled in 1999 resulting in us losing our draft picks and getting fined, board spills in 2001, Gardner admitting we were  losing 1 million dollars a week (correct me on the figure if you will) in 2002 before the competitive balance fund was thankfully put in, fights in pubs, training at Junction Oval with the portable offices with the dead possums in them, having to pass the hat around to find the salary for Aaron Davey because the club had no dedicated fund for drafting rookies, having to hold telethons to get members on the Footy Show in 2001, selling games etc. It wasn't an environment that was great for creating success.

Yet despite that, Neale got the absolute most out of what at times was a pretty patchwork list. His reign also saw two highly successful coaches get their spurs as assistants (Clarko was the runner and did some fitness work in Neale's first year and we all know about Chris Fagan) and other players were under his charge who became good assistant coaches as well (Ooze and Cam Bruce).

Neale was also the most diligent, committed and systematic coach of my time. No stone was left unturned, systems were put in place, his intensity and passion unquestioned and yet, his relationships with his players these days are still magnificent. He made his mistakes for sure (Woey's contract details getting made public was a big mistake and his reliance on certain blokes who probably let him down at times come to mind), but the overall package for mine is still the best.

His long term record over a longer period is what makes Neale still my number one coach. Now here is the caveat. I have no doubt that in the next 2 to 3 years he will become a clear 2nd spot on this list. Goody will have been at the club for a good seven years by the time his contract ends with potential for a stint of a decade. He clearly has the team to win further premiershps (while Neale had a good ordinary team at best) which was largely in the mix when he took up the hot seat. I think Goody himself has admitted that had he walked into the 2014 version of MFC as coach, he might not have had the longevity he has had. I think that had he gotten into a time machine and coached the 1998 Melbourne team, who knows what might have happened? Probably not best to work on counterfactuals and speculation, but because Neale did and eked out as much as he did, he still is my number one (barely).

2) Simon Goodwin: I have covered most of why I've put Goody here, and some might think I was putting Goody down. Trust me when I say that he is an absolutely sensational coach and will very likely be at the top of this list once his stint at Melbourne is over (barring a meltdown of epic proportions). 

I remember after Bails was sacked and Neeld was brought in, we were a fairly irascible and aggravated bunch on here. For us, the sole qualification that a head coach needed to have was the ability to bollock players in perpetuity until they ceded to the abuse and played well. Who would have thought that a bloke who, according to Ed Langdon, has yet to raise his voice since 2020 onwards has been only one of four men to be Melbourne premiership coaches? Goody knows who he is, is comfortable with being vulnerable, is a magnificent relationship builder and is often underestimated for his coaching nous. Binman pointed out that a lot of his moves in the 2021 season him  switching Dogga into the ruck and establishing the best zone defence since Collingwood's forward press in 2011 showed that he is no slouch on the tactical front.

He has also managed to overcome personal hardships as well. We've all had plenty of arguments over whether Bartlett was right to do what he did, but let's make no mistake, it did put Goody under the pump. He admitted he became a hermit at the end of 2020 and he needed to work on himself. It's pretty brave to admit that and we can see the results right now how tight he is with his team. They want to play for him and would run through a brick wall for him.

If all goes well in September, I look forward to revisiting this list in 4 months time to make him my definite number one as he will unambigiuously deserve it should we win another flag (or make another Grand Final or Prelim).

3) Swooper Northey: Similar to Neale in that while he had some genuinely good players under his charge (Garry Lyon, Jimmy Stynes, Todd Viney, Brett Lovett, Sean Wight), the list was kind of prosaic in certain places. He had lots of blokes who were decent triers but when they were put up against the Horrible Hawks, West Coast or Gary Ablett led Geelong teams, they just lacked that edge in genuine class. 

Swooper was very much a meat and potatoes coach, and it suited for the times. He was coach at the tail end of the amateur age so you didn't need to make things too difficult as a coach. You could definitely see he was a Tommy Hafey disciple, but it suited our blokes right down to the ground. 

I fell in love with the Melbourne Football Club when Swooper was coach so he will always hold a special place in my heart. His reign actually provided me with a slightly rude shock in 1997 as up until that point, I had only experienced highly competitive (if in hindsight flawed) Melbourne teams. When we won the spoon that year, it was the first time I'd seen a totally hopeless Melbourne team. 

Swooper also had decent showings at Brisbane and Richmond as well. A genuinely great Melbourne person. I wonder if he has life membership? I know Geelong granted Malcolm Blight life membership not long ago despite not being formally eligible. Swoop has definitely stayed true to the Demons (with a divided loyalty with Richmond).

4) Paul Roos: Paul Roos' record at first glance at Melbourne was ordinary if we just look at the numbers. Furthermore, his record at Sydney easily overshadows  Let's put that out there now.

However, that was never his brief. Anyone who has been on this board from 2013 onwards (I joined in 2012) would be familiar with what he was tasked with: rebuilding a club that was fundamentally broken. He definitely created the bedrock that Goody was able to build upon. He inherited a horrendous team and turned it into a solidly competitive one. Goody turned it into a premiership team. 

There has been plenty of debate about who deserved the most credit for last year's success: Goody or Roos? For mine, if Roosy had welched on his deal and coached the team into 2021, we wouldn't have won the flag. My feeling is that parts of the game plan he employed mightn't have stacked up as well with the 2021 game and while a great coach and master relationship builder, his persona was better at dragging teams out of the muck rather than the guy to take a team to the next level. With that said and as stated above, I have always felt that had Goody walked into the 2014 MFC as head coach, he mightn't have lasted more than 3 years. We really needed a bloke to make us respectable and Roosy was it.

5) Neil Balme: Ask me if Neil would have made my top 5 coaches in 1997 when I was a punk teenager, and I would have chortled at you. Around that time, I felt he was an oaf who had coddled the players excessively and used a game plan that was iconoclastic in terms of how football had been played for the sake of it. He was the first coach I had seen who had coached Melbourne to a spoon so that colored my perspective somewhat somewhat.

24 years down the track, I realize Balmey was probably ahead of his time but like ND, had walked into a situation that couldn't take full advantage of his talents. Look at those 2007 Geelong teams and you can definitely see his fingerprints all over the game plan (supposedly Bomber wanted a game plan that emphasized much more conservative ball movement). In hindsight, the roles he has taken up post Melbourne have suited his very laid back personality to an absolute tea. 

His early years at Melbourne weren't too shabby either. We would have made the finals in any other year beside 1993 (the greatest season that was). Our 1994 was up and down but by the time September came around, he had his best team on the ground and we reacted accordingly.  In the end, we played against a West Coast team that in the words of Paul Couch had been eating 'very good steaks' and it felt like we were the 8 year olds playing at the U 12 Auskick. But that year was one of our better ones based on who was on the pitch.

From 1995 onwards, it all turned to cow manure and Neil's personality probably prevented him from giving a few blokes a much needed bake. It was said that the embryotic signs of Hollywood Boulevard emerged on his watch (which would be a problem for the club in future decades). But among the seven coaches who have coached us, he is a definite top 5 pick. Bails might have gotten in but at the end of the day, he had no finals appearance and was a tale of wasted potential (and we have all been over the Neeld era so there is no need to rehash that).

Thanks Colin B F that was a great read bought back some great memories, however, being a bit older I can remember Norm Smith and he is my all time favourite then after 57 years Simon Goodwin I rank Daniher and Northey a very close 3 Rd and 4th and Roosy 5th for helping us regain some credibility in the footy world.!!

Edited May 5, 2022 by DeeZone
Stuffed that up.lol!!

[Fritta and Turner 4,398]

Smith

Goodwin

Daniher

Northey

Ridley

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,774]

Daniher

Goodwin 

Northey

Balme

Roos

[Hopeful Demon 1,517]

There have only been five coaches in my lifetime (Daniher, Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin).

Here's my ranking:

1. Goodwin

2. Daniher

3. Roos

4. Bailey

5. Neeld

[Nasher 33,613]

1. Goodwin

2. Daniher

3. Northey

4. Roos

5. Bailey

I’m of the firm belief the Bailey rebuild was on track until it was derailed by senior management meddling. It gets blurred in to one massive traumatic period because of ‘08, 09, ‘12, ‘13 and 186, but other than the latter, we were competitive and not that far off in ‘11. I reckon he gets a bum rap.

The only other permanent senior coaches in my life coached spoons. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,205]

Goodwin

Daniher

Northey

Roos

Balme

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Nasher said:

1. Goodwin

2. Daniher

3. Northey

4. Roos

5. Bailey

I’m of the firm belief the Bailey rebuild was on track until it was derailed by senior management meddling. It gets blurred in to one massive traumatic period because of ‘08, 09, ‘12, ‘13 and 186, but other than the latter, we were competitive and not that far off in ‘11. I reckon he gets a bum rap.

The only other permanent senior coaches in my life coached spoons. 

It was a tough decision to make with Bails when putting my list together. Balme edged him for the number five spot on the basis he had made finals.

Every full time Melbourne coach (besides Neeld) has had me optimistic about the future in terms of how the list was tracking. Some of those wins during 2010 and early 2011 were genuinely breathtaking stuff.

His dismissal press conference is still my darkest day as an MFC fan. 😞

Edited May 5, 2022 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Jibroni 5,002]

34 minutes ago, Hopeful Demon said:

There have only been five coaches in my lifetime (Daniher, Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin).

Here's my ranking:

1. Goodwin

2. Daniher

3. Roos

4. Bailey

5. Neeld

Should have Yze or Neal Craig ahead of Neeld

[Jibroni 5,002]

Daniher

Northey

Goodwin

Roos

Balme

[Dees2014 2,377]

I will only list coaches of teams i personally saw play. The first game I saw was as an eight year old being the 1960 grand final. i was away for most of the 1990s when i lived in Europe and Asia. I have seen every final the MFC has played since then with the exception of 2021. My list is:

1. Smith: the greatest of all time, probably of any sport

2. Goodwin: breaking the 57 year drought speaks for itself

3. Daniher: great record with an ordinary list

4. Barassi: although he did not have great success with the MFC, he set us up for later success under Northy and Daniher

5 Northy: did the best he could with a limited list

Edited May 5, 2022 by Dees2014

[Hopeful Demon 1,517]

12 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Should have Yze or Neal Craig ahead of Neeld

Ha ha indeed.