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Saturday Morning on Demonland (6)

Whispering_Jack
in Melbourne Demons

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We’ve all had some good laughs at Geelong’s expense about the age of their list, the way they appeared worn and tired late in the season and the recruiting strategy that got them there … but the reality is that the Cats have remained high on the AFL ladder for the better part of a decade and a half without going to the draft for a rebuild.

For most of that time Geelong has rarely delved into the draft’s top ten. Yet in 2020, it came half a game and a near on field riot from Dustin Martin from a premiership. This year, the Cats loaded up with Jeremy Cameron, Isaac Smith and Shaun Higgins and were seconds away from finishing in top spot at the end of the home and away season and they still made the preliminary final.

Is it possible to maintain long term success with a policy of mature age recruiting?

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    Sixteen minute quarters and a seventeen game season helped get them to that final game of the season where they went missing after half time. 

    Overall they are still a very capable side but I wonder how they will fare when the likes of Danger, Selwood & Hawkins hang up their boots. Not just because they are quality players but they're arguably the three most driven individuals at the club and help set the high standards Geelong have been known for. 

    I went back and watched our first game against them early in the season and we could have won by fifteen goals. Outwith a crazy ten minute period in round 23 we've completely owned them this year. 

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    11 games at Sleepy Hollow flatters them every year. Probably works against them in pursuit of the ultimate goal as they will never play a Grannie there.

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    They have proven that it is possible, but only because of the introduction of free agency. Unfortunately it is like walking a tightrope. You need to get the right free agents at the right time or you are coming down.

     You need a really strong development program because all those older free agents are keeping your kids out of the team. I prefer the spread of ages we have right now, if we can continue to recruit an A grader every 2nd year (a big ask if your picks are around 18-20 I know) we could keep the list going a long time with only the occasional free agent to fill a need.

     Going too hard to the free agency well means that eventually your age spread starts to look like the cats. Personally I think they should have developed Clark and Narkle over bringing in Higgins. Also trading 2 first rounders for Cameron doesn’t look like a good deal right now.

     Obviously if all teams could recruit using hindsight they would be amazing, but my point is that it is walking a tightrope. It doesn’t take much lose your balance and fall.

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    3 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

    We’ve all had some good laughs at Geelong’s expense about the age of their list, the way they appeared worn and tired late in the season and the recruiting strategy that got them there … but the reality is that the Cats have remained high on the AFL ladder for the better part of a decade and a half without going to the draft for a rebuild.

    For most of that time Geelong has rarely delved into the draft’s top ten. Yet in 2020, it came half a game and a near on field riot from Dustin Martin from a premiership. This year, the Cats loaded up with Jeremy Cameron, Isaac Smith and Shaun Higgins and were seconds away from finishing in top spot at the end of the home and away season and they still made the preliminary final.

    Is it possible to maintain long term success with a policy of mature age recruiting?

    Just watch the old, ancient, decrepit, flea ridden, dilapidated, moggies sink deeper than a piece of shark droppings into the bottom of the Cayman trench in 2022 with that pensioner list!

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    They have broken the mould and proven it’s possible to stay top 4, 10 years after their dominant period 2007-2011. However they have only one GF in that 10 years in a heavily compromised season. 

    so I would say it is possible to stay in finals without the draft but not possible to win flags or have periods of domination. If Geelong couldn’t do it with their list, I don’t think anyone can. I think they are proving that flags are not possible without the draft. 

    luckily, our club still value the draft and I hope they continue to

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    A few points

    Geelong had a lot of success thru father and son , scarlett  hawkins and ablett jnr .They were not first round picks . The rules have changed now on father son . Because of long success , they were able to attract good players  from other sides  ie Cameron  looking for success.They have had players over last 15 years play hundreds of games 

    scarlett enright taylor selwood bartel corey  chapman  , stevie J etc, They didnt have to blood  too many young players all at same time . They didnt lose good players to long term acl injuries.  when they lost stewart near end of season  there defence collapsed.Henry couldnt stop the bleeding.
    We were fortunate this year We had Burgo and we lost Adam T as our only knee injury . First time in years  we got most of our top 22 on the ground  most  weeks.

    Not all there picks were successes too.  Cameron couldnt get in the side  because of depth , couldnt show his worth and now is starring at lions . Wouldnt geelong give for a small forward now . Unlike Hawthorn who have dropped down  going thru pain ,  and are rebuilding  , cats havent yet. when hawkins selwood and danger are gone in a few years , they wont have replacements aged 26 in their prime . Duncan  30 and c guthrie  29 wont be them . 

    There  are the only victorian side that has home ground advantage  , they train and play on same ground , they know the nuances of the field  ie narrow pockets . Watch opponents kick out on full there. They have crowd support too . Very few opposition  supporters get there . crowd noise does effect umpiring ( see wc at home ) without fans this year , geelong  lost games  they should have won ( see rnd 23). In conjunction  with this geelong have had to play interstate sides and weaker melb sides there for years . How many years have we groaned when the fixture came out , away at geelong for5 years now.When all the redevelopment is done there , how many more opposition supporters will get in ? 3000? 

    Because of financial losses due to covid . Afl wont schedule finals at geelong . It may be a moot point if Geelong follow Hawthorn . 

     

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    52 minutes ago, Satan said:

    A few points

    Geelong had a lot of success thru father and son , scarlett  hawkins and ablett jnr .They were not first round picks . The rules have changed now on father son . Because of long success , they were able to attract good players  from other sides  ie Cameron  looking for success.They have had players over last 15 years play hundreds of games 

    scarlett enright taylor selwood bartel corey  chapman  , stevie J etc, They didnt have to blood  too many young players all at same time . They didnt lose good players to long term acl injuries.  when they lost stewart near end of season  there defence collapsed.Henry couldnt stop the bleeding.
    We were fortunate this year We had Burgo and we lost Adam T as our only knee injury . First time in years  we got most of our top 22 on the ground  most  weeks.

    Not all there picks were successes too.  Cameron couldnt get in the side  because of depth , couldnt show his worth and now is starring at lions . Wouldnt geelong give for a small forward now . Unlike Hawthorn who have dropped down  going thru pain ,  and are rebuilding  , cats havent yet. when hawkins selwood and danger are gone in a few years , they wont have replacements aged 26 in their prime . Duncan  30 and c guthrie  29 wont be them . 

    There  are the only victorian side that has home ground advantage  , they train and play on same ground , they know the nuances of the field  ie narrow pockets . Watch opponents kick out on full there. They have crowd support too . Very few opposition  supporters get there . crowd noise does effect umpiring ( see wc at home ) without fans this year , geelong  lost games  they should have won ( see rnd 23). In conjunction  with this geelong have had to play interstate sides and weaker melb sides there for years . How many years have we groaned when the fixture came out , away at geelong for5 years now.When all the redevelopment is done there , how many more opposition supporters will get in ? 3000? 

    Because of financial losses due to covid . Afl wont schedule finals at geelong . It may be a moot point if Geelong follow Hawthorn . 

     

    Should the reference in your post be to McCarthy rather than Cameron? Cameron was a Crows player.

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    They're a good average team of battlers.

    They provide a good doormat for us to wipe our feet on as we enter finals.

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    30 minutes ago, Winners at last said:

    Should the reference in your post be to McCarthy rather than Cameron? Cameron was a Crows player.

    My error for the year :)

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    I've crappped on about Jeelong numerous times elsewhere on 'Land. Here's all you need to know about the numbskull thinking down there:

    2021 Jeremy Cameron:

    • 15 games, 39 goals, 16 behinds.
    • Cost: Forfeited 15 years service of three good (possibly great) players.
    • In the door: Holmes.

    2021 BBB and TMac:

    • 35 games, 58 goals, 35 behinds.
    • Cost: Virtually free.
    • In the door: Bowey.
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    How long is it since we beat the Cats three times in the same year? We still owe them plenty and I am looking forward to playing them on the G more often, time for Hawks, Dons, Blues to spend more time down at the Cattery and the Cats to play more games in Tassie.😀😀

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    2 hours ago, Satan said:

    A few points

    Geelong had a lot of success thru father and son , scarlett  hawkins and ablett jnr .They were not first round picks . The rules have changed now on father son . Because of long success , they were able to attract good players  from other sides  ie Cameron  looking for success.They have had players over last 15 years play hundreds of games 

    scarlett enright taylor selwood bartel corey  chapman  , stevie J etc, They didnt have to blood  too many young players all at same time . They didnt lose good players to long term acl injuries.  when they lost stewart near end of season  there defence collapsed.Henry couldnt stop the bleeding.
    We were fortunate this year We had Burgo and we lost Adam T as our only knee injury . First time in years  we got most of our top 22 on the ground  most  weeks.

    Not all there picks were successes too.  Cameron couldnt get in the side  because of depth , couldnt show his worth and now is starring at lions . Wouldnt geelong give for a small forward now . Unlike Hawthorn who have dropped down  going thru pain ,  and are rebuilding  , cats havent yet. when hawkins selwood and danger are gone in a few years , they wont have replacements aged 26 in their prime . Duncan  30 and c guthrie  29 wont be them . 

    There  are the only victorian side that has home ground advantage  , they train and play on same ground , they know the nuances of the field  ie narrow pockets . Watch opponents kick out on full there. They have crowd support too . Very few opposition  supporters get there . crowd noise does effect umpiring ( see wc at home ) without fans this year , geelong  lost games  they should have won ( see rnd 23). In conjunction  with this geelong have had to play interstate sides and weaker melb sides there for years . How many years have we groaned when the fixture came out , away at geelong for5 years now.When all the redevelopment is done there , how many more opposition supporters will get in ? 3000? 

    Because of financial losses due to covid . Afl wont schedule finals at geelong . It may be a moot point if Geelong follow Hawthorn . 

     

    Are you mistaking Lincoln McCarthy for Cameron?? Christension was another but only relatively successful. 

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    8 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

    Is it possible to maintain long term success with a policy of mature age recruiting?

    Depends on your definition of success I suppose. Geelong are a well managed, very professional club.  They have made the most of their natural advantage, playing at Kardinia Park against sides down the list.  Furthermore their list over the years has been rather durable.  So they are doing lots of things right.  But they hadn't added any silverware.

    Now the ex Cats coaches have resigned and Scott has been given an extension to do what....?  Even Scott has said that they have trying to fill gaps for the last few seasons.

    So long term success, no.

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    Hawthorn look shot to me as well. After the season finished I thought they might improve with Mitchell on board and the progress they made late under Clarkson. But the balls up during the trade period with shopping around senior players suggested that there might be some dissension in the group. Not a good look and it highlighted their aging list too.

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    9 hours ago, Satan said:

    A few points

    Geelong had a lot of success thru father and son , scarlett  hawkins and ablett jnr .They were not first round picks . The rules have changed now on father son . Because of long success , they were able to attract good players  from other sides  ie Cameron  looking for success.They have had players over last 15 years play hundreds of games 

    scarlett enright taylor selwood bartel corey  chapman  , stevie J etc, They didnt have to blood  too many young players all at same time . They didnt lose good players to long term acl injuries.  when they lost stewart near end of season  there defence collapsed.Henry couldnt stop the bleeding.
    We were fortunate this year We had Burgo and we lost Adam T as our only knee injury . First time in years  we got most of our top 22 on the ground  most  weeks.

    Not all there picks were successes too.  Cameron couldnt get in the side  because of depth , couldnt show his worth and now is starring at lions . Wouldnt geelong give for a small forward now . Unlike Hawthorn who have dropped down  going thru pain ,  and are rebuilding  , cats havent yet. when hawkins selwood and danger are gone in a few years , they wont have replacements aged 26 in their prime . Duncan  30 and c guthrie  29 wont be them . 

    There  are the only victorian side that has home ground advantage  , they train and play on same ground , they know the nuances of the field  ie narrow pockets . Watch opponents kick out on full there. They have crowd support too . Very few opposition  supporters get there . crowd noise does effect umpiring ( see wc at home ) without fans this year , geelong  lost games  they should have won ( see rnd 23). In conjunction  with this geelong have had to play interstate sides and weaker melb sides there for years . How many years have we groaned when the fixture came out , away at geelong for5 years now.When all the redevelopment is done there , how many more opposition supporters will get in ? 3000? 

    Because of financial losses due to covid . Afl wont schedule finals at geelong . It may be a moot point if Geelong follow Hawthorn . 

     

    I imagine it would have been even more quiet at the end of the round 23 game if there was a crowd there, rather than no crowd... is that possible?

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