4 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

So 9th may be ok for you but not for me given we should have made the finals in both years. Also can't just pretend 2019 didn't happen!

2017 we won the first 2 matches and by the end of the year we shot ourselves in the foot losing to a bunch of teams below us as we couldn't handle the expectations, poor selection decisions, poor coaching, and poor injury management. We lost to Freo 14th, Hawt 12th, Norf twice 15th, Blues 16th, and against Coll 13th in a terrible performance in a must win game.

2019 we suffered for not managing the playing list in 2018 and going in all chips. Over half the starting 22 were not on the track until after xmas for preseason ... we showed little fight throughout the back end of the year despite some injured players returning.

2020 we started really poorly 1-4 and had the wrong game plan until we had a mid season reset and make some changes to the game plan. We still had a chance by the end of 2020, but we dropped games to teams below us again and couldn't manage expectations. GWS 10th, Freo 12th, Sydn 16th. Lost 3 of last 4 games.

2021 was perfect and showed we should have done better in prior seasons with the list we have.

2018 was pleasingly above expectation but we mismanaged our injuries and paid for it in 2019. Some of the risks taken can be justified re injury management but not all of them.

In summary, our poor years have been heavily self inflicted. So I would sign him up for 2 and a 3rd year based on performance conditions. If he wants more we sign Yze up. The influence of the new assistants has been the main reason for our 2021 turnaround IMO and a huge shout out to Pert for getting the right football set up in place to compliment Goodwins strengths and weaknesses

Honestly, I thought we were done with all this tripe. It feels like before the gf, half the posts on this forum were complaining about or having a whack at Goody. Probably one coach in ten or one in twenty coaches a team to a grand final victory. Simon Goodwin is the one.

Fifty seven years we waited for this, whatever contract terms he wants, if they don’t cripple the club, he should get.

 We just built an outstanding premiership team, they absolutely demolished everyone they faced in the finals and we could well be looking at a dynasty 🤞. You can’t build that over night or by snapping your fingers. You have to put it together piece by piece and develop those kids. You are going to lose games, your are going to backslide sometimes and have to relearn what you should have already learned. You have to build relationships and trust and a coaching panel that covers all the right areas. On top of that we were coming from an incredibly low base.

To nitpick and complain about those development years, seeing what they built for us, is just the absolute height of ingaratitude. You could just delete this whole post and replace it with 2 words…

thank you

I think I wrote earlier in a longer piece.

The jobs his until he doesn't want it or we don't want him.

Theres other places he might want to go, There's yzes to replace him.

Keep the team together as long as we can.j

BUT 

Dont be held to ransom and pay over the market.

6 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

So 9th may be ok for you but not for me given we should have made the finals in both years. Also can't just pretend 2019 didn't happen!

2017 we won the first 2 matches and by the end of the year we shot ourselves in the foot losing to a bunch of teams below us as we couldn't handle the expectations, poor selection decisions, poor coaching, and poor injury management. We lost to Freo 14th, Hawt 12th, Norf twice 15th, Blues 16th, and against Coll 13th in a terrible performance in a must win game.

2019 we suffered for not managing the playing list in 2018 and going in all chips. Over half the starting 22 were not on the track until after xmas for preseason ... we showed little fight throughout the back end of the year despite some injured players returning.

2020 we started really poorly 1-4 and had the wrong game plan until we had a mid season reset and make some changes to the game plan. We still had a chance by the end of 2020, but we dropped games to teams below us again and couldn't manage expectations. GWS 10th, Freo 12th, Sydn 16th. Lost 3 of last 4 games.

2021 was perfect and showed we should have done better in prior seasons with the list we have.

2018 was pleasingly above expectation but we mismanaged our injuries and paid for it in 2019. Some of the risks taken can be justified re injury management but not all of them.

In summary, our poor years have been heavily self inflicted. So I would sign him up for 2 and a 3rd year based on performance conditions. If he wants more we sign Yze up. The influence of the new assistants has been the main reason for our 2021 turnaround IMO and a huge shout out to Pert for getting the right football set up in place to compliment Goodwins strengths and weaknesses

4 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

It would be rather boring if we all thought exactly the same....Sheeple is a real thing today unfortunately.  Why facepalm everything you don't agree with 100%, it shows zero class...

No it doesn't.

It shows the person making the comment has zero idea.

6 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Things changing very quickly Foopy and coaches burn out quickly or lose touch under the unhealthy pressures the job brings e.g. one day Buckley, Clarkson, Lyon and others are star coaches and the next year their clubs are pushing them out for underperformance ... that's the reality of AFL footy whether you like it or not and it pays not to give very long term deals ... a 3 year extension means he coaches for another 4 years ... that's plenty

So 9th may be ok for you but not for me given we should have made the finals in both years. Also can't just pretend 2019 didn't happen!

2017 we won the first 2 matches and by the end of the year we shot ourselves in the foot losing to a bunch of teams below us as we couldn't handle the expectations, poor selection decisions, poor coaching, and poor injury management. We lost to Freo 14th, Hawt 12th, Norf twice 15th, Blues 16th, and against Coll 13th in a terrible performance in a must win game.

2019 we suffered for not managing the playing list in 2018 and going in all chips. Over half the starting 22 were not on the track until after xmas for preseason ... we showed little fight throughout the back end of the year despite some injured players returning.

2020 we started really poorly 1-4 and had the wrong game plan until we had a mid season reset and make some changes to the game plan. We still had a chance by the end of 2020, but we dropped games to teams below us again and couldn't manage expectations. GWS 10th, Freo 12th, Sydn 16th. Lost 3 of last 4 games.

2021 was perfect and showed we should have done better in prior seasons with the list we have.

2018 was pleasingly above expectation but we mismanaged our injuries and paid for it in 2019. Some of the risks taken can be justified re injury management but not all of them.

In summary, our poor years have been heavily self inflicted. So I would sign him up for 2 and a 3rd year based on performance conditions. If he wants more we sign Yze up. The influence of the new assistants has been the main reason for our 2021 turnaround IMO and a huge shout out to Pert for getting the right football set up in place to compliment Goodwins strengths and weaknesses

Sorry mate, but this stance is heavily compromised. The problem is that the people crediting the assistants as the (somehow) only reason we won the flag are the same dropkicks who continuously potted the coach when we weren’t performing well in ‘19 and ‘20, saying that he was the only reason for the poor performances.

This shows a clear confirmation bias, meaning that no what information is put in front of you, you will still find a way to hold the same opinion about Goodwin even if it is blatantly incorrect.

So please, if you’re gonna criticise the coach when the team performs poorly, then at least show the decency to give credit to him when we’re performing well. Otherwise people just look so stupid. 

Edited February 1, 20223 yr by Foopy on the telly

2 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

Honestly, I thought we were done with all this tripe. It feels like before the gf, half the posts on this forum were complaining about or having a whack at Goody. Probably one coach in ten or one in twenty coaches a team to a grand final victory. Simon Goodwin is the one.

Fifty seven years we waited for this, whatever contract terms he wants, if they don’t cripple the club, he should get.

 We just built an outstanding premiership team, they absolutely demolished everyone they faced in the finals and we could well be looking at a dynasty 🤞. You can’t build that over night or by snapping your fingers. You have to put it together piece by piece and develop those kids. You are going to lose games, your are going to backslide sometimes and have to relearn what you should have already learned. You have to build relationships and trust and a coaching panel that covers all the right areas. On top of that we were coming from an incredibly low base.

To nitpick and complain about those development years, seeing what they built for us, is just the absolute height of ingaratitude. You could just delete this whole post and replace it with 2 words…

thank you

Unfortunately some people really have no idea the work it takes into building a successful sporting team or individual for that matter. Probably best to take no notice of them.

Rip up his contract unless he plays Gus in the guts 

59 minutes ago, dpositive said:

I think I wrote earlier in a longer piece.

The jobs his until he doesn't want it or we don't want him.

Theres other places he might want to go, There's yzes to replace him.

Keep the team together as long as we can.j

BUT 

Dont be held to ransom and pay over the market.

It's not always as black and white as that with these things though.

 

l have given detailed accounts of why l would give 3 years without making personal or negative comments about other posters ... in return l get unstructured incoherent emotive commentary with some bordering on harassment ... grow up ... people can disagree but show some class and respect that we can have different opinions ... suggesting a 3 year extension doesn't mean goodwin isn't a good coach but no individual is bigger than the club and he hasn't been consistent

Edited February 1, 20223 yr by Demons1858

1 hour ago, Foopy on the telly said:

Sorry mate, but this stance is heavily compromised. The problem is that the people crediting the assistants as the (somehow) only reason we won the flag are the same dropkicks who continuously potted the coach when we weren’t performing well in ‘19 and ‘20, saying that he was the only reason for the poor performances.

This shows a clear confirmation bias, meaning that no what information is put in front of you, you will still find a way to hold the same opinion about Goodwin even if it is blatantly incorrect.

So please, if you’re gonna criticise the coach when the team performs poorly, then at least show the decency to give credit to him when we’re performing well. Otherwise people just look so stupid. 

Never said: assistants were the only reason, never continuously potted the coach, gave him credit for two years ... stop being a rude to posters referring to them as drop kicks and stupid mate ... pretty sure if you met me you wouldn't be saying that to my face 

Edited February 1, 20223 yr by Demons1858

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

Unfortunately some people really have no idea the work it takes into building a successful sporting team or individual for that matter. Probably best to take no notice of them.

Yes, you just stick to your cliche and build up your likes

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

There's always one..

Yep and your if mate ... smart alec comments to try to get a laugh and likes with not facts or constructive comments appears to be your go

Lucky Goodys name isn’t Justin Langer. 

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

No it doesn't.

It shows the person making the comment has zero idea.

With respect, it actually shows that in your opinion the person making the comment has zero idea. 

1 hour ago, Demons1858 said:

l have given detailed accounts of why l would give 3 years without making personal or negative comments about other posters ... in return l get unstructured incoherent emotive commentary with some bordering on harassment ... grow up ... people can disagree but show some class and respect that we can have different opinions ... suggesting a 3 year extension doesn't mean goodwin isn't a good coach but no individual is bigger than the club and he hasn't been consistent

A 3 year extension, which is until end of 2024 is perfectly reasonable. Richmond did the same with Hardwick after 2017 (extended to end 2021).  Clarko (after his 2nd flag in 2013) got a 2 year extension. Clarkos post 2013 contract extension

Ironically, the more confident the coach is in his own ability and the list, the shorter the contract will be. 

8 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

So 9th may be ok for you but not for me given we should have made the finals in both years. Also can't just pretend 2019 didn't happen!

2017 we won the first 2 matches and by the end of the year we shot ourselves in the foot losing to a bunch of teams below us as we couldn't handle the expectations, poor selection decisions, poor coaching, and poor injury management. We lost to Freo 14th, Hawt 12th, Norf twice 15th, Blues 16th, and against Coll 13th in a terrible performance in a must win game.

2019 we suffered for not managing the playing list in 2018 and going in all chips. Over half the starting 22 were not on the track until after xmas for preseason ... we showed little fight throughout the back end of the year despite some injured players returning.

2020 we started really poorly 1-4 and had the wrong game plan until we had a mid season reset and make some changes to the game plan. We still had a chance by the end of 2020, but we dropped games to teams below us again and couldn't manage expectations. GWS 10th, Freo 12th, Sydn 16th. Lost 3 of last 4 games.

2021 was perfect and showed we should have done better in prior seasons with the list we have.

2018 was pleasingly above expectation but we mismanaged our injuries and paid for it in 2019. Some of the risks taken can be justified re injury management but not all of them.

In summary, our poor years have been heavily self inflicted. So I would sign him up for 2 and a 3rd year based on performance conditions. If he wants more we sign Yze up. The influence of the new assistants has been the main reason for our 2021 turnaround IMO and a huge shout out to Pert for getting the right football set up in place to compliment Goodwins strengths and weaknesses

The problem I have with your analysis is that success is never linear...it has its ups and downs.

In the drive for the premiership, the ultimate success, we should expect to have a time line similar to this.

I wouldn't judge the coach on those results but on how he worked to fix the problems and fix them he (with the FD) did.

...2018 ultimately showed that we weren't there yet and without the drop off in 2019 I doubt we would have been able to build the team that won the prize. It would have been very unlikely that we would have picked up the 3 in the draft...Koz, Jackson and Rivers. 

2018 also proved our need for KPD's and that took us 2 years plus to settle with Lever then May, along with Petty.

We thought we had a generational forward in Hogan but that proved wrong so it was back to the drawing board there...come finals time we had a potent mix up forward, something Goody had worked on for a few years.

You talk assistants, but they're only as good as the senior coach and his ability to let go and let them do their job. According to Burgess Goody is sensational in this area of man management.

As for Yze taking the reigns down the track...I hope not. He should be aiming to pick up a senior job in the next 2 years and I doubt the Melbourne position will be open.

3 years is a good length contract, imo. If we continue to do well, just continually role it out further. Gives Goody security and reward, but not long enough to get complacent and rest on our laurels (especially not with our current list).

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

It's not always as black and white as that with these things though.

 

I'm sure in your negotiations at any level you will admit it almost always is. The art of the compromise introduces the grey, but ultimately both parties have a point that they will not go beyond. (The black and the white).

Honest and open relationships can establish these points early. The essential is that here is no surprise in the decision.

8 hours ago, dpositive said:

I'm sure in your negotiations at any level you will admit it almost always is. The art of the compromise introduces the grey, but ultimately both parties have a point that they will not go beyond. (The black and the white).

Honest and open relationships can establish these points early. The essential is that here is no surprise in the decision.

No, there's often more to it as situations can be unique and complex and not always as simple as money and contract length.

That's particularly true in the case of Goodwin and why it's taking a little longer than most would expect.

 

11 hours ago, rjay said:

The problem I have with your analysis is that success is never linear...it has its ups and downs.

In the drive for the premiership, the ultimate success, we should expect to have a time line similar to this.

I wouldn't judge the coach on those results but on how he worked to fix the problems and fix them he (with the FD) did.

...2018 ultimately showed that we weren't there yet and without the drop off in 2019 I doubt we would have been able to build the team that won the prize. It would have been very unlikely that we would have picked up the 3 in the draft...Koz, Jackson and Rivers. 

2018 also proved our need for KPD's and that took us 2 years plus to settle with Lever then May, along with Petty.

We thought we had a generational forward in Hogan but that proved wrong so it was back to the drawing board there...come finals time we had a potent mix up forward, something Goody had worked on for a few years.

You talk assistants, but they're only as good as the senior coach and his ability to let go and let them do their job. According to Burgess Goody is sensational in this area of man management.

As for Yze taking the reigns down the track...I hope not. He should be aiming to pick up a senior job in the next 2 years and I doubt the Melbourne position will be open.

Never said it has to be linear progress and understand the ups and downs but we should have made finals more than 2 out of 5 years. I base the performance each year on what we should have achieved based on the easy fixtures we have been getting, our list, injury management, coaching, selection, game plan etc. At the end of 2017 and 2020 posters on here were rabid about our performance to the point many wanted goody gone then. Then there is 2019. So at the very least we have been inconsistent. I have offered an additional 3 years, what are you suggesting an additional 5+ years which would make it 6+ years for an inconsistent coach? Clarkson, Lyon, Scott don't get those kinds of extensions even when their teams have been consistent finalists

Edited February 1, 20223 yr by Demons1858

32 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, there's often more to it as situations can be unique and complex and not always as simple as money and contract length.

That's particularly true in the case of Goodwin and why it's taking a little longer than most would expect.

 

What factors do you think is making it unique and complex?

1 minute ago, Demons1858 said:

What factors do you think is making it unique and complex?

Goodwin has had multiple meetings with the MFC and each time forgotten his pen

49 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

What factors do you think is making it unique and complex?

Just things to do with Goody's situation, there's somewhat personal things so I can't elaborate.

12 hours ago, rjay said:

You talk assistants, but they're only as good as the senior coach and his ability to let go and let them do their job. According to Burgess Goody is sensational in this area of man management.

And how come, in the eyes of some, Goodwin doesn't get any credit for his part in building a strong coaching team and surrounding himself with the best assistants?

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

No, there's often more to it as situations can be unique and complex and not always as simple as money and contract length.

That's particularly true in the case of Goodwin and why it's taking a little longer than most would expect.

 

True. There's always complexity and individual circumstances but can be resolved amicably with good relations.

That appears to be the case here.

The best outcome will satisfy all parties.