Why Jayden Hunt must be the sub

[Deespicable 2,682]

Word is it that we are sticking with the same combination, including James Jordon as the sub.

Here's my view on why Jayden Hunt should be named in that role ahead of JJ.

1) The sub role in the GF is different to the role required throughout the season - it requires an impact player.

For 22 weeks plus the finals to date, the sub role was there to cover significant game-ending injuries and the coaches honored the AFL request to use it in that manor.

But the grand final is different. Sure it might be activated early if a club sustains a serious injury, but this time there is a guarantee that the side that is trailing at three-quarter time will try and use it like they did during the short-loved sub era from 2011-15.

And the Dogs will almost certainly name the pacey Anthony Scott or small forward Laitham Vandermeer for the role, allowing them the chance to take off one of their talls (Martin, Scache or English if they are getting beaten) to help provide spark.

Perth Stadium is a big ground and that injection of pace could be crucial if it's a close game.

James Jordon is a hard-working mid who is a great prospect - but he ain't going to provide a lively role up forward and he has had no training down back.

Jayden Hunt is electric, even if his pre-2021 reputation is that he's somewhat erratic, and he is experienced in playing both down back and up forward.

 2) The sub role should help with covering a key injury and ideally should have the potential to help with our two players under injury clouds - May and Spargo.

Clearly the only player on our list (other than Tomlinson) that can try and fill the May void is Joel Smith. But he is also under an injury-cloud so would be a poor choice as sub. If May was to tweak his hammy further, the most likely scenario is that either T-Mac is sent back to play on English or Schache or Hibberd would be moved on to Schache and shifted off minding Roarke Smith and Bontempelli when resting. In both scenarios Hunt can provide value in being able to cover Hibberd's role down back or add forward pressure if sent up there in a quasi T-Mac role.

Hunt also could switch into Spargo's small forward/tackle pressure role if Spargs ankle proves worse than thought. Jordon can do neither - he is best suited in the middle and would be ideal back-up if Angus, Trac, Olly or Viney get injured, although not crucial because Harmes, ANB and Sparrow can play more mid if needed.

3) Is it unfair to drop JJ after he's been in the 23 all season? 

I think JJ has been the sub for the past five weeks and we all should respect the fact that he is developing fast and has shown admirable courage. But he's been the sub - his omission does not alter team balance. All season he has won plaudits - but let's face it, he is a development player and his best years will be ahead.

Will he feel aggrieved? Of course. Every player who narrowly misses will feel disappointed. Jayden Hunt must feel mega frustrated that after finally establishing himself as lockdown defender who links up well and playing every minute of our first 19 games before getting injured that he has been overlooked for a 19-year-old and a 20-year-old, albeit two very talented ones.

Anyway to me it's clear cut - Jayden Hunt should be the sub. Just as the Dogs will try and inject pace late in the game, we need to be ready to do so as well.

Hopefully the sub issue will be a non-issue and we have the game in our keeping anyway, but what's your view?

[Diamond_Jim 12,371]

Interesting discussion but there is this rule....

To be eligible for a medical substitution, the club doctor must decide that an injured player will be unable to play a game in the next 12 days.

[Diamond_Jim 12,371]

I have always thought that Smith and before him Petty made the better substitute simply because it is easier to cover a mid/small forward.

 

[Deespicable 2,682]

4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Interesting discussion but there is this rule....

To be eligible for a medical substitution, the club doctor must decide that an injured player will be unable to play a game in the next 12 days.

Yes and do you think Bevo will say, sorry but we have to keep Schache or Martin on the ground if they are playing poorly because they are not technically injured. It is the grand final. The rule will be exploited if required.

[rjay 24,627]

The sub rule will be exploited, if not used.

With them and us going in with players under a cloud the exploitation of the sub may not even be an issue.

I suspect the sub will be used legitimately.

So, who is the best choice?

I think Hunt would give us more coverage...but wouldn't be disappointed either way.

JJ would be stiff to miss.

The wildcard could be Melk...

Some have called for Smith but that is too big a risk if May is in.

[Diamond_Jim 12,371]

5 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Yes and do you think Bevo will say, sorry but we have to keep Schache or Martin on the ground if they are playing poorly because they are not technically injured. It is the grand final. The rule will be exploited if required.

the doctor could lose his licence.... GF or not

[jnrmac 19,910]

Hunt has also played 21 games I think and was a staple and much improved player this year. Had he not been injured he'd likely still be in the side.

But Goodwin isn't a fan

[jnrmac 19,910]

Just now, Diamond_Jim said:

the doctor could lose his licence.... GF or not

That is a stretch of the highest order.

Preety easy to take someone off with a head knock or a knee twinge  or heart palpitations or whatever

[daisycutter 29,343]

hunt or jordon......i'm not too fussed......as long as whichever one is fully fit

[Fritta and Turner 4,186]

7 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Hunt has also played 21 games I think and was a staple and much improved player this year. Had he not been injured he'd likely still be in the side.

But Goodwin isn't a fan

So Goody plays Hunt for 20 odd games, but Goody aint a fan. Like really?

[Deemania since 56 6,563]

30 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Word is it that we are sticking with the same combination, including James Jordon as the sub.

Here's my view on why Jayden Hunt should be named in that role ahead of JJ.

1) The sub role in the GF is different to the role required throughout the season - it requires an impact player.

For 22 weeks plus the finals to date, the sub role was there to cover significant game-ending injuries and the coaches honored the AFL request to use it in that manor.

But the grand final is different. Sure it might be activated early if a club sustains a serious injury, but this time there is a guarantee that the side that is trailing at three-quarter time will try and use it like they did during the short-loved sub era from 2011-15.

And the Dogs will almost certainly name the pacey Anthony Scott or small forward Laitham Vandermeer for the role, allowing them the chance to take off one of their talls (Martin, Scache or English if they are getting beaten) to help provide spark.

Perth Stadium is a big ground and that injection of pace could be crucial if it's a close game.

James Jordon is a hard-working mid who is a great prospect - but he ain't going to provide a lively role up forward and he has had no training down back.

Jayden Hunt is electric, even if his pre-2021 reputation is that he's somewhat erratic, and he is experienced in playing both down back and up forward.

 2) The sub role should help with covering a key injury and ideally should have the potential to help with our two players under injury clouds - May and Spargo.

Clearly the only player on our list (other than Tomlinson) that can try and fill the May void is Joel Smith. But he is also under an injury-cloud so would be a poor choice as sub. If May was to tweak his hammy further, the most likely scenario is that either T-Mac is sent back to play on English or Schache or Hibberd would be moved on to Schache and shifted off minding Roarke Smith and Bontempelli when resting. In both scenarios Hunt can provide value in being able to cover Hibberd's role down back or add forward pressure if sent up there in a quasi T-Mac role.

Hunt also could switch into Spargo's small forward/tackle pressure role if Spargs ankle proves worse than thought. Jordon can do neither - he is best suited in the middle and would be ideal back-up if Angus, Trac, Olly or Viney get injured, although not crucial because Harmes, ANB and Sparrow can play more mid if needed.

3) Is it unfair to drop JJ after he's been in the 23 all season? 

I think JJ has been the sub for the past five weeks and we all should respect the fact that he is developing fast and has shown admirable courage. But he's been the sub - his omission does not alter team balance. All season he has won plaudits - but let's face it, he is a development player and his best years will be ahead.

Will he feel aggrieved? Of course. Every player who narrowly misses will feel disappointed. Jayden Hunt must feel mega frustrated that after finally establishing himself as lockdown defender who links up well and playing every minute of our first 19 games before getting injured that he has been overlooked for a 19-year-old and a 20-year-old, albeit two very talented ones.

Anyway to me it's clear cut - Jayden Hunt should be the sub. Just as the Dogs will try and inject pace late in the game, we need to be ready to do so as well.

Hopefully the sub issue will be a non-issue and we have the game in our keeping anyway, but what's your view?

Unquestionably sensible with sound reasoning - we really must get Hunt into the fray, by convenience or by necessity, as he provides a unique double-edged sword to the skilset up there or down there. Plus, his pace is a phantastik asset across a game and a midfield, two-way. That is an asset we can ill-afford to do without. In addition, he blends into the team and the game style, so well, from a form improvement and in the true 'team' sense, giving and receiving. He augments Sparrow's role(s) and Sparrow, his (roles). He would anihilate Daniel around the ground.

 

 

[Deemania since 56 6,563]

30 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Interesting discussion but there is this rule....

To be eligible for a medical substitution, the club doctor must decide that an injured player will be unable to play a game in the next 12 days.

Well, for starters, there ain't no games for more than twelve days after this one. 

[Pates 9,625]

I’m with the OP, I think having a role-playing mid as the sub limits flexibility. Hunt has experience in practically all areas of the game and has also been a critical cog at times through the year so he is well versed with our “system”. 

I also agree that the player should be able to have an impact with an injection of something different. Hunt has pace and a spark that could give the team a lift. He’s also a surprisingly good kick for goal. 

[spirit of norm smith 15,295]

I agree with the conversation.
 

 Hunt being fit allows for a potential to add a lot of impact.  Forward or back. His run versus the dogs in round 19 was actually one of the better performers.  
Hunt could also play wing if we lost a mid and Brayshaw had to go into the rotation.  Dogs pace is a worry. Hunt could help combat it if we lost a man. 
 

JJ is the safe and loyalty option.  Goodwin loves this. It’s the team. JJ has been replaced by Sparrow.  It would break JJs heart to be dropped. JJ is quite vanilla.  

[Rossmillan 585]

I am convinced Geelong made Rohan fake that hammy, as he was innefectual.  This is the Grand final, whoever needs to come off will, and we can beg for forgiveness later.

Hunt has had a significant gap with no game time are you concerned with this?

[rjay 24,627]

6 minutes ago, Rossmillan said:

Hunt has had a significant gap with no game time are you concerned with this?

I think this is an issue but JJ hasn't had a lot of game time but some maybe better than none.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,655]

Decisions like this are where coaches earn their money. The hardest part won't be the choice made, but telling those on the fringe who miss out. Players like Melksham, J Smith, Hunt and Jordon are presumably all in contention for the medi-sub spot (assuming the same 22 as played last week are selected). Three will be disappointed and will need to be told in an empathetic way why they've missed out. 

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Hunt is gonna have more of an impact as a FWD/DEF if one was to go down injured.

JJ is going to have more of an impact if a mid went down.

Simply comes down to what Goody values more. Don't think you could argue one is more 'deserving' than the other.

I think given how highly they value continuity it will be JJ.

Edited September 22, 2021 by DemonLad5

[Deemania since 56 6,563]

50 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I agree with the conversation.
 

 Hunt being fit allows for a potential to add a lot of impact.  Forward or back. His run versus the dogs in round 19 was actually one of the better performers.  
Hunt could also play wing if we lost a mid and Brayshaw had to go into the rotation.  Dogs pace is a worry. Hunt could help combat it if we lost a man. 
 

JJ is the safe and loyalty option.  Goodwin loves this. It’s the team. JJ has been replaced by Sparrow.  It would break JJs heart to be dropped. JJ is quite vanilla.  

I appreciate what JJ can do, how well he can perform, how his loyalties to the team spirit are exhibited. He is still a developing player and teammate, at the same time - and lacks that kind of 'many games' experience perhaps needed in a GF. It is terrific that a player of his class is there as a medi-sub and in this unusual season, we have been lucky to have him there. Whilst we feel he 'deserves' and sub guernsey on Saturday, he is not quite as beneficial to the Club in such a GF role as Hunt might be, with skills, experience, pace and improving role familiarity in several areas of the field. 

[Skuit 9,973]

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Word is it that we are sticking with the same combination, including James Jordon as the sub.

Here's my view on why Jayden Hunt should be named in that role ahead of JJ.

 

I'm not sure if I've ever been in greater agreement with a post on Demonland. In an odd roundabout way, we can cover for JJ, but JJ can't cover for a number of contingencies. Experience alone should be a factor. Jordon is 20 and will get his turn. 

[sue 9,020]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

the doctor could lose his licence.... GF or not

yeah, I'm sure the medical licensing  board would rush to look into the case. (sarcasm/end).  Almost every player has some sort of injury all the time, so proving anything would be impossible. Did anyone look into those clubs during the season which had a sub used every other week? Perhaps a Royal Commission? 

I couldn't resist an update:  In fact I reckon most AFL docs are more in danger of being in trouble for not taking off half the players every match.  Can't imagine my GP allowing any of them to stay on the field  - health and safety.....

Edited September 22, 2021 by sue

[layzie 33,076]

If I see evidence that every lockdown rule breaker issued with a fine were made to pay it, then I might believe that a doctor could lose their license. 

[Swooper1987 3,272]

I think Hunt covers more contingencies and would be pleased to see him selected, but I'm not unhappy if Jordon keeps his spot.  

[Deefiant 438]

I think you guys are looking at it the wrong way. Yes Hunt can play in more roles, but JJ can come in and play midfield and push other players to cover the roles Hunt can play (probably better than him). If a midfielder goes down, then Hunt would struggle in there and the heart of our engine room would struggle. 

I personally think they might give Smith the sub role, as there is a definite injury risk to May and we would struggle more trying to cover him than another position. 

[dee-tox 4,835]

Agree. I'd have Hunt as the sub.

Can cover forward and back. The only issue is if one of our midfielders goes down who will replace him? ANB, Angus/Rivers, Kozzie?