Will Nathan Jones get a farewell game?

[dazzledavey36 54,277]

13 minutes ago, Cassiew said:

Who were our two best players this year. Again, I’m not taking anything away from Goodwin, I’m saying Roosey’s efforts can’t be ignored

It's a team game.

Goody and Max have continued to preach the theme this year of being more as a team then the individual. 

Again this was started by Goodwin doing a complete culture makeover during the off season.

Clayton Oliver last week at the All Australian awards  was nothing but full praise for Goodwin for turning him into a better footballer in the off season and the mentoring role he's played on him. 

Didn't hear Oliver mention Roosy there...

Edited August 30, 2021 by dazzledavey36

[Cassiew 1,903]

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

It's a team game.

Goody and Max have continued to preach the theme this year of being more as a team then the individual. 

Again this was started by Goodwin doing a complete culture makeover during the off season.

Clayton Oliver last week at the All Australian awards  was nothing but full praise for Goodwin for turning him into a better footballer in the off season and the mentoring role he's played on him. 

Didn't hear Oliver mention Roosy there...

You can argue then that Roosey Moulded Gawn. He was well established before Goodwin took over.

You seem to misinterpreting my post. I’m not denying the effort Goodys done I’m just acknowledging Rooseys contribution to it

[58er 6,388]

21 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

If we do win (and I emphasize that I am using the conditional 'if'), I personally wouldn't mind  Paul Roos handing over the cup. He is the most likely to be given permission to get into WA, and it would provide a brilliant sense of closure on the journey that was begun in late 2013. 

Some might shout me down for that, but I think it would be great to recognize the modern day odyssey we have been on since PJ (who clearly doesn't qualify to do this) walked into the club two days after 148.

No in any context for our Club ( I love Roost's role etc) but the Cup handover is a traditional Club position and must be a famous and popular Demon from now or yesteryear.

RDB would be No 1 at MCG but not possible in Perth probably Maybe a Zoom inclusion snd him saying he is handing it to say Wiz or If possible John  Beckwith or a Glory Days multiple premiership player  (John  is still alive and well as far as I know) if he could get to Perth. 

Difficulty  is the quarantining requirement  of course. 

The Unfurling if the flag I  2022 would  by default now be bigger as RDB etc SamStyenes  could both Asher this along with Kate Roffey perhaps. 
 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

It's a team game.

Goody and Max have continued to preach the theme this year of being more as a team then the individual. 

Again this was started by Goodwin doing a complete culture makeover during the off season.

Clayton Oliver last week at the All Australian awards  was nothing but full praise for Goodwin for turning him into a better footballer in the off season and the mentoring role he's played on him. 

Didn't hear Oliver mention Roosy there...

Let’s take a step back to analyze the premise this argument is based on: Goody is more responsible for the current culture within the playing group that has led to the results of this year.

Indeed that argument can be convincingly made, and I wouldn’t disagree with it.

But the argument doesn’t sustain itself when one looks at where we were when Roosy was hired.

If Roos and PJ weren’t hired back then, I genuinely fear that we wouldn’t have a club. Period.

In Roos’ case, the way his tenure was set up gave Goody a functional club to actually walk into. As there was an end date on him being at the club, the temptation for the club to get cold feet and sack him in year three or four was taken completely off the table. PJ was also vital in that regard in that he was the type of bloke who called a spade a spade, didn’t suffer fools and was a straight down the line operator.

That allowed Roos to focus on building a team that didn’t regularly embarrass itself on a fortnightly to monthly basis.

As good a coach as Goody has been, I’d ask what might have happened if he were hired in 2013? Even with a finals near miss in ‘17, the ‘Is Goodwin the right guy?’ thread was created after a couple of dodgy performances in ‘18. 

Imagine what would have happened had Goody been in charge of us in those games against the Eagles or GWS in ‘14 or Hawthorn or the Dogs in ‘15 without Roosy’s coaching credentials (and a rolling tenure)? 

I view Goody as, ironically, being similar to Roosy when he was in Sydney. A lot of the hard work was done by Barassi (in that he forced them to move out of the Edelsten millionaire spiv era) and Eade (building a decent playing list with a nice mix of youth and experience) for Roos to turn them into genuine winners and a premiership team.

But make no mistake about it. If Roos wasn’t hired in 2013 (nor PJ as a matter of fact), we might now be looking at becoming the Tasmanian Devils rather than potentially winning the premiership.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Jaded No More 68,867]

I think one thing we know for sure, is that if Jones is the sub in grand final and has to come on, he will leave absolutely nothing on the field. He will give us everything he has, as he has done for his entire career. Whether that’s good enough or whether his body can go for 4 quarters is another matter. 
But I don’t fear for a second that Jones on grand final day, in his last game, won’t kill him self for his teammates or this club. 

[Redleg 40,834]

12 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I think one thing we know for sure, is that if Jones is the sub in grand final and has to come on, he will leave absolutely nothing on the field. He will give us everything he has, as he has done for his entire career. Whether that’s good enough or whether his body can go for 4 quarters is another matter. 
But I don’t fear for a second that Jones on grand final day, in his last game, won’t kill him self for his teammates or this club. 

Similar to what I posted.

If he was sub and wasn’t needed until say the second half and we win, what a great reward for Chunk’s devotion to the MFC.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Redleg

[Skuit 10,031]

I have enough confidence in this team and system now that Jones in or out won't make the difference. Except that it may make our current leaders stand taller. The last game I saw him play in the VFL was an absolute blinder, but he was admittedly slow. Yet, on a HFF I think he could still contribute - tackle, tackle, tackle, and take a shot if the opportunity presents - he's pretty reliable in that regard. Would have in ahead of Vanders and probably Melksham (although the latter is tempting). Would be one of the greatest football stories in recent memory. 

[Cassiew 1,903]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Let’s take a step back to analyze the premise this argument is based on: Goody is more responsible for the current culture within the playing group that has led to the results of this year.

Indeed that argument can be convincingly made, and I wouldn’t disagree with it.

But the argument doesn’t sustain itself when one looks at where we were when Roosy was hired.

If Roos and PJ weren’t hired back then, I genuinely fear that we wouldn’t have a club. Period.

In Roos’ case, the way his tenure was set up gave Goody a functional club to actually walk into. As there was an end date on him being at the club, the temptation for the club to get cold feet and sack him in year three or four was taken completely off the table. PJ was also vital in that regard in that he was the type of bloke who called a spade a spade, didn’t suffer fools and was a straight down the line operator.

That allowed Roos to focus on building a team that didn’t regularly embarrass itself on a fortnightly to monthly basis.

As good a coach as Goody has been, I’d ask what might have happened if he were hired in 2013? Even with a finals near miss in ‘17, the ‘Is Goodwin the right guy?’ thread was created after a couple of dodgy performances in ‘18. 

Imagine what would have happened had Goody been in charge of us in those games against the Eagles or GWS in ‘14 or Hawthorn or the Dogs in ‘15 without Roosy’s coaching credentials (and a rolling tenure)? 

I view Goody as, ironically, being similar to Roosy when he was in Sydney. A lot of the hard work was done by Barassi (in that he forced them to move out of the Edelsten millionaire spiv era) and Eade (building a decent playing list with a nice mix of youth and experience) for Roos to turn them into genuine winners and a premiership team.

But make no mistake about it. If Roos wasn’t hired in 2013 (nor PJ as a matter of fact), we might now be looking at becoming the Tasmanian Devils rather than potentially winning the premiership.

Thank you. Think my post has been misunderstood. I have no doubt about the contributions Goody made to building us up and I think he’s done a fine job. I just think Roos deserves some thanks too

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Cassiew said:

Thank you. Think my post has been misunderstood. I have no doubt about the contributions Goody made to building us up and I think he’s done a fine job. I just think Roos deserves some thanks too

I should also clarify something as well.

Both eras (Roos and Goodwin) are symbiotic with the other. It’s not a case of one being ‘more responsible’ than the other as they have both been part of the same continuity that has brought us to where we are.

All people who’ve been with us on this (mostly) unbroken journey deserve kudos.

[Demonland 71,586]

https://media.whooshkaa.com/show/1920/episode/897543.mp3

[58er 6,388]

14 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Let’s take a step back to analyze the premise this argument is based on: Goody is more responsible for the current culture within the playing group that has led to the results of this year.

Indeed that argument can be convincingly made, and I wouldn’t disagree with it.

But the argument doesn’t sustain itself when one looks at where we were when Roosy was hired.

If Roos and PJ weren’t hired back then, I genuinely fear that we wouldn’t have a club. Period.

In Roos’ case, the way his tenure was set up gave Goody a functional club to actually walk into. As there was an end date on him being at the club, the temptation for the club to get cold feet and sack him in year three or four was taken completely off the table. PJ was also vital in that regard in that he was the type of bloke who called a spade a spade, didn’t suffer fools and was a straight down the line operator.

That allowed Roos to focus on building a team that didn’t regularly embarrass itself on a fortnightly to monthly basis.

As good a coach as Goody has been, I’d ask what might have happened if he were hired in 2013? Even with a finals near miss in ‘17, the ‘Is Goodwin the right guy?’ thread was created after a couple of dodgy performances in ‘18. 

Imagine what would have happened had Goody been in charge of us in those games against the Eagles or GWS in ‘14 or Hawthorn or the Dogs in ‘15 without Roosy’s coaching credentials (and a rolling tenure)? 

I view Goody as, ironically, being similar to Roosy when he was in Sydney. A lot of the hard work was done by Barassi (in that he forced them to move out of the Edelsten millionaire spiv era) and Eade (building a decent playing list with a nice mix of youth and experience) for Roos to turn them into genuine winners and a premiership team.

But make no mistake about it. If Roos wasn’t hired in 2013 (nor PJ as a matter of fact), we might now be looking at becoming the Tasmanian Devils rather than potentially winning the premiership.

Still as I posted earlier in this topic a short term and " Non Demon historical decision" for Roosy. 

one can argue that without Jim Stynes we would also be cooked.

Our last flag is in the Barassi era snd our Glory Years and it's so Much  more appropriate to link the presentation to our previous successful era.

That's not to under state what PJ and Roosy did. That's exactly what we wanted ( Glen Bartlett also) and the AFL.

If you are of a younger age CBF I understand that the Roos era is the most important along with Jimmy Stynes.

BUT the Club has a glorious history ( albeit a long time ago) and every player and off field Board member and volunteer are deserving of thanks whether in say 1975 or say 2015!! 

A Club legend if possible RDB should be the appropriate person to hand the Cup over. Failing that the Wiz or even Glen Bartlett if in WA are 2 possibilities.

in 2022 if we unfurl the glad it's then time for more recent "heroes" and older ones if failing to participate on Sept 2021 to be involved.

Think RDB was chosen in 2000 but can't remember fully! 

David Neitz would also not be out of place in this role. 
Sadly I guess Neil Daniher is also out of the question! 

Quarsntining is going to make this a very hard choice if we have to make it. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Jones offers just as much as Jordon, I’d have him as the medical sub.

[deelusions from afar 1,792]

The comments of Brayshaw were very interesting esp following what Goody has said in the last week.  I think it's on the cards if we win the prelim and Jones continues with his training and all the other things he's doing.

[Young Blood 2,583]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Jones offers just as much as Jordon, I’d have him as the medical sub.

Does he? Thats a great question. I would say other then experience in the case where both were playing a similar roll that Jordan is the superior player for finals as it currently stands.

This team thrives off team defence. Pressure acts and winning contested ball would be the some of the KPI's for players who are on the fringes of this side especially for a flank/mid rotation type player like these two.

JJ has been in the upper echelon for pressure acts in the comp at stages throughout the season. He ranks 6th in this stat in the side and 5th for total tackles. He plays on the edge and like Bowey has an older head when it comes to decision making with terrific foot skills.

I fear Jones' lack of power in the legs due to injury set backs this yeah might hinder his ability to create that overwhelming team pressure needed for a hot prelim/grand final.

I prefer JJ as the sub as it stands currently but who knows.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Young Blood

[Lucifers Hero 39,595]

Can't see Jones getting back. 

Hasn't played a full game for a long time so his calf hasn't been tested in match conditions.  With any player it takes a few games after a  long time out to hit their straps again and regain touch etc.   So even as the medi sub he would be a risky selection.

If there was a plan to bring him back he would have been selected before now to get that match conditioning.

For the last 18 months his tackling, chasing and other defensive work has been poor.  We now play fast and defensive football.  Don't think there is a spot for him.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[All the Jacks 99]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:22 AM, PaulRB said:

Given the quality of our new kids (I.e Bowey) is increasingly difficult to find a spot in our best team for Nate… finding an appropriate moment to honour and celebrate his huge contribution to our club is a different question, and I hope we can do this well. 

Best 23, premiership 57 years it has to be 

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:38 PM, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Let’s take a step back to analyze the premise this argument is based on: Goody is more responsible for the current culture within the playing group that has led to the results of this year.

Indeed that argument can be convincingly made, and I wouldn’t disagree with it.

But the argument doesn’t sustain itself when one looks at where we were when Roosy was hired.

If Roos and PJ weren’t hired back then, I genuinely fear that we wouldn’t have a club. Period.

In Roos’ case, the way his tenure was set up gave Goody a functional club to actually walk into. As there was an end date on him being at the club, the temptation for the club to get cold feet and sack him in year three or four was taken completely off the table. PJ was also vital in that regard in that he was the type of bloke who called a spade a spade, didn’t suffer fools and was a straight down the line operator.

That allowed Roos to focus on building a team that didn’t regularly embarrass itself on a fortnightly to monthly basis.

As good a coach as Goody has been, I’d ask what might have happened if he were hired in 2013? Even with a finals near miss in ‘17, the ‘Is Goodwin the right guy?’ thread was created after a couple of dodgy performances in ‘18. 

Imagine what would have happened had Goody been in charge of us in those games against the Eagles or GWS in ‘14 or Hawthorn or the Dogs in ‘15 without Roosy’s coaching credentials (and a rolling tenure)? 

I view Goody as, ironically, being similar to Roosy when he was in Sydney. A lot of the hard work was done by Barassi (in that he forced them to move out of the Edelsten millionaire spiv era) and Eade (building a decent playing list with a nice mix of youth and experience) for Roos to turn them into genuine winners and a premiership team.

But make no mistake about it. If Roos wasn’t hired in 2013 (nor PJ as a matter of fact), we might now be looking at becoming the Tasmanian Devils rather than potentially winning the premiership.

Correct. This has all been set up by Roos, as in he asked for certain foundations. ( 2 Key Defenders) May and Lever were targetted after consultation. 
the building began from there. 
 

Goodwin and his assistants would not be in this situation without the Foundations being targeted 

Which takes us back to PJ..who bought respect back to the MFC

Get the Job done boys….2 more games

[picket fence 17,048]

On 8/26/2021 at 8:07 AM, Queanbeyan Demon said:

What are you doing on Demonland Sue with such insights?

Looking more likely that he will be medical supersub in at least one if not two remaining games

[Lord Travis 10,697]

The fact he’s chosen to remain in quarantine in Perth instead of flying back to Melbourne to be with his pregnant wife due to have twins in the coming weeks tells me he’s not giving up and he’s been told there’s a strong chance he’ll play. 

We’d lose nothing having him as a medical sub she’s did a Jordan, Sparrow, Baker type. It’s not like he hasn’t wasn’t it this year either. He was our best player in the VFL before it got closed down due to covid, so his VFL form warrants selection.  
I reckon it’d make the team walk taller too. Look at how they were for Jones’ 300th against Richmond earlier this year.

Fingers crossed he gets a game and enjoys it.

[deelusions from afar 1,792]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Can't see Jones getting back. 

Hasn't played a full game for a long time so his calf hasn't been tested in match conditions.  With any player it takes a few games after a  long time out to hit their straps again and regain touch etc.   So even as the medi sub he would be a risky selection.

If there was a plan to bring him back he would have been selected before now to get that match conditioning.

For the last 18 months his tackling, chasing and other defensive work has been poor.  We now play fast and defensive football.  Don't think there is a spot for him.

Normally I'd agree but I just have a feeling - why isn't Goody sending him home to be with his wife?  That would be the right thing to do if he was not in contention.  Goody's comments and Brayshaw's comments also feed into this.

It's obviously a risk but at the same time as a medical sub he's likely to only be needed for a quarter or two.  Yes I know there could be an injury in the first 5 minutes - but even if there is, he wouldn't be needed to be on the ground all game.  To give people an idea, this is the Time on Ground % of the players who have been on the fringes of our team this year:

Trent Rivers - 69.9%

Nathan Jones - 60.2%

James Jordon - 59.3%

Jake Melksham - 57.7%

Tom Sparrow - 43%

Aaron VandenBerg 32.8%

Potentially, these averages are thrown out due to them counting games as subs / injuries (I'm not sure exactly how its calculated but I think this would be pretty spot on).  Not sure how to find the individual game TOG% stats other than looking at the players' last game on footywire.  So for example:

Tom Sparrow v Bris - 57%

James Jordon v Adel - 65%

Jake Melksham v Adel 68%

Nathan Jones v North 69%

So its not like we haven't been playing with players only playing 2/3rd of the time.  I think its a risk worth taking - there wouldn't be a player that wants a premiership more than Jonesy and he will know he has to play within his limits - put pressure on and fight tooth and nail.  I think he can do it for 2/3rds of 1-4 quarters of football.  To have him on the field will lift the whole team.

[Grr-owl 1,216]

When I visualize a premiership cup presentation (2022....I expect to lose in the prelim or the grannie 2021....) I see Max acknowledging Jim Stynes with a blown kiss to the clouds and Ronald Dale with a salute to a spot high in the members, then calling Chunk forward to share the podium....

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, Grr-owl said:

When I visualize a premiership cup presentation (2022....I expect to lose in the prelim or the grannie 2021....) I see Max acknowledging Jim Stynes with a blown kiss to the clouds and Ronald Dale with a salute to a spot high in the members, then calling Chunk forward to share the podium....

This is so dumb.

We could not be better placed to win a flag like we are this year.

Who knows what 2022 will bring so to think that we have a better chance in 2022 is simply ridiculous.

[dazzledavey36 54,277]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

The fact he’s chosen to remain in quarantine in Perth instead of flying back to Melbourne to be with his pregnant wife due to have twins in the coming weeks tells me he’s not giving up and he’s been told there’s a strong chance he’ll play. 

We’d lose nothing having him as a medical sub she’s did a Jordan, Sparrow, Baker type. It’s not like he hasn’t wasn’t it this year either. He was our best player in the VFL before it got closed down due to covid, so his VFL form warrants selection.  
I reckon it’d make the team walk taller too. Look at how they were for Jones’ 300th against Richmond earlier this year.

Fingers crossed he gets a game and enjoys it.

This is exactly my thinking also.

I reckon he's asked the club where he sits and they've told him that the medical sub is potentially his spot in the prelim if he gets through full training.

If the club didn't think he was a chance they would have pushed him to be back in Melbourne with his wife.

[radar 1,865]

When was Jones’ last game?

Reckon in the cauldron of a tight Prelim you’d want someone hot and ready - Jordan or Melk. 
No place for sentiment. 

[cantstandyasam 700]

17 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is exactly my thinking also.

I reckon he's asked the club where he sits and they've told him that the medical sub is potentially his spot in the prelim if he gets through full training.

If the club didn't think he was a chance they would have pushed him to be back in Melbourne with his wife.

Or Jones thinks he's a chance and he's prepared to take it without any guarantees. How can we risk the biscuit by playing him as a medical sub, when we could get an injury of a game and he could potentially do a calf. Also he is so slow these days he wont be able to defend like the others. So let's be practical and pick our best side not be sentimental and pick someone because they are a good bloke etc....We got him to 300, that's enough.