On 15/06/2021 at 02:24, Doug Reemer said:

Aside from Weideman's age. He doesn't have much going for him. Too Timid, no confidence or consistency.

We aren't in a development stage anymore. The time is now. If Weid gets dropped sooks up and leaves, so be it. We need to pick the best side to trying a pinch a flag while we are in the window. Aside from the Big 4 (Rich, Hawks, Cats Eagles). Most sides only get about to years at their peak to win a flag.

Get Ben Brown, Mitch Brown in. Who cares just get someone in that will have a crack!!

When I think about the tigers and Geelong ...The power of their forwards comes into it.

We need to be able to have somthing equivalent.

 

Ben Browns priority is no longer footy.

  On 15/06/2021 at 22:14, Half forward flank said:

Ben Browns priority is no longer footy.

His pay packet should suggest otherwise 

  On 15/06/2021 at 22:14, Half forward flank said:

Ben Browns priority is no longer footy.

What's his priority then?

  On 15/06/2021 at 22:43, dazzledavey36 said:

What's his priority then?

Gee first olisik clogs up the board, now Half Forward Flank is back?

From memory he was going on during last year's trade period about Brown prioritising money or other off-field, hence why he turned his back on North and whatever contract they'd offered him.

Just get him back in. I've seen enough of Weid dropping marks & missing what few opportunities he gets in front of goal.

  On 15/06/2021 at 22:07, leave it to deever said:

When I think about the tigers and Geelong ...The power of their forwards comes into it.

We need to be able to have somthing equivalent.

 

And I'd argue Ben Brown could consistently play this role better than Sam. 

Go to youtube type in Ben Brown 2019 highlights. If he could deliver half of that, he is already doing better the Weidemans Best season (which was 2020 from a goals point of view).

  On 15/06/2021 at 23:10, titan_uranus said:

Gee first olisik clogs up the board, now Half Forward Flank is back?

From memory he was going on during last year's trade period about Brown prioritising money or other off-field, hence why he turned his back on North and whatever contract they'd offered him.

This is why I hate when we lose. Every single troll that go into hiding come out and pot at every opportunity. Imagine having a life feasting more on the negatives then positives.

 

  On 15/06/2021 at 23:15, wizardinoz said:

Just get him back in. I've seen enough of Weid dropping marks & missing what few opportunities he gets in front of goal.

As somone else here said yesterday - Wer'e currently playing with 17 men and a forward line reliant on too few to regularly impact scoreboard - Thanks TMac BTW for the year so far. Its amazing we lost by less than 3 goals yesterdy after the defence was unpikced on the smaller ground.

Brown will force the lowering of eyes, has great hands and kicks straight.  Mitch Brown will do also just for his great endeavour.

 

Age Real Footy Podcast questioning Melbourne’s goal kicking firepower compared to other flag chances especially Geelong and Lions (and I think the Eagles)

  On 15/06/2021 at 23:51, dazzledavey36 said:

This is why I hate when we lose. Every single troll that go into hiding come out and pot at every opportunity. Imagine having a life feasting more on the negatives then positives.

 

It’s not just trolls it’s unrealistic supporters who expect us to go undefeated through the season, the same people who are irrational on game day threads and feel the sky is falling.

They have written off Goodwin,  Spargo, Kossie, Nibbler, Tmac, May, Viney, Lever, Jason Taylor and still not put their hands up.

For these posters when we win it’s all down to Choco  and Yze but Monday was all down to Goodwin

  On 16/06/2021 at 00:01, Superunknown said:

Age Real Footy Podcast questioning Melbourne’s goal kicking firepower compared to other flag chances especially Geelong and Lions (and I think the Eagles)

Interesting given we average a higher score than the Cats so far this year.

I remember in the Carlton game at the Punt Road End, Max Gawn spoiled a near certain mark by BBB and almost certainly a goal from that range/angle. 

The other clear benefit is (and no doubt raised many times) but he’ll take away a key defender from the opposition which frees up the other forwards to shine. 

  On 15/06/2021 at 22:14, Half forward flank said:

Ben Browns priority is no longer footy.

  On 16/06/2021 at 00:01, Superunknown said:

Age Real Footy Podcast questioning Melbourne’s goal kicking firepower compared to other flag chances especially Geelong and Lions (and I think the Eagles)

And rightly so.

Tmac and Fritta have been good but we need a power forward like Hawkins , Roo or Walker.

If Bbb can get back to his okd form then a flag is certainly in reach. As good as our defence is we still are not kicking enough goals.

We do not have the luxury of time to keep playing Sam W . In fact after five or six seasons its time to stop. The window for a flag is NOW and next year. 

We get Bbb in asap and if he fails Mitch Brown.

The club did its best I guess and I think it was a hard call working out who to play bw Weid and bbb. But surely after sw last game we have to put bbb back in. Bbb only played 3 games for the whole year and was not shocking. He is also a proven leading Afl goal kicker for three out of the last four seasons( home and away games) so theres that. 

I say the club resets and presents after the bye with bbb for at least the next four or five games and if it does not work we try the other Brown.

 

 

We have given Sam Weideman a few weeks to try and cement a spot in the Demons side and he has failed to do so.

It is now time to give Benny Brown a chance to play in the forward line for a few weeks. Benny Brown is a proven goal-kicker and just needs a good run and have players delivering the ball to him and he will do the rest.

At least Benny Brown can take a mark! The most frustrating thing about Sam Weideman over the last few weeks has been his inability to do the fundamentals of football right and actually mark the ball. As harsh as it sounds if you are an AFL level forward then you need to be able to mark the ball otherwise you are just not going to make it!

This is Benny Brown's time to shine and prove he is over his injuries and ready to kick some goals for the Demons!

  On 16/06/2021 at 01:33, leave it to deever said:

And rightly so.

Tmac and Fritta have been good but we need a power forward like Hawkins , Roo or Walker.

If Bbb can get back to his okd form then a flag is certainly in reach. As good as our defence is we still are not kicking enough goals.

We do not have the luxury of time to keep playing Sam W . In fact after five or six seasons its time to stop. The window for a flag is NOW and next year. 

We get Bbb in asap and if he fails Mitch Brown.

The club did its best I guess and I think it was a hard call working out who to play bw Weid and bbb. But surely after sw last game we have to put bbb back in. Bbb only played 3 games for the whole year and was not shocking. He is also a proven leading Afl goal kicker for three out of the last four seasons( home and away games) so theres that. 

I say the club resets and presents after the bye with bbb for at least the next four or five games and if it does not work we try the other Brown.

The current top 8 and their average scores:

Melbourne - 88.5
Bulldogs - 98.8
Geelong - 88.3
Brisbane - 93.7
Port - 87.3
Sydney - 86.3
Eagles - 90.1
Richmond - 86.9

I think the 'goal kicking power' point is being oversold and it's pretty lazy analysis by the media at the moment to be focusing on our forward line.

On current averages we are ahead of Geelong (Hawkins and Cameron), Port (Dixon), Sydney (Buddy, Papley) and Richmond (Riewoldt, Lynch).

We're also ahead of other 'goal kicking power' teams like Adelaide (Walker) 79.8, Carlton (Mackay) 84.7, Gold Coast (King) 71.6 and St Kilda (King) 70.6.

We sit 5th in terms of average points scored. I really don't think this is a panic like it's being made out.

 

  On 16/06/2021 at 00:01, Superunknown said:

Age Real Footy Podcast questioning Melbourne’s goal kicking firepower compared to other flag chances especially Geelong and Lions (and I think the Eagles)

It's funny because the winning team has kept their opponents to 50, 25, 74, 60, 67, 61, 74, 62, 81, 81, 52, 68, 89, 44, 84, 54, 73, 84, 66, 82 and 75 since the year 2000. Even when footy was higher scoring in the early 2000s, no team has kicked 90 points and lost a Grand Final. The average score of a defeated grand finalist since 1999 is 67 points, and since 2013 is 59 points.

Defence wins premierships because it can survive under the highest intensity. That's why we've comfortably beaten every other team at the top end of the ladder because our game stands up when both teams are bringing the heat. 

We beat both Geelong and Brisbane, with their 'goal kicking firepower'. Brisbane kicked 3 goals after half time. Geelong kicked 5 straight in the 3rd quarter, but only 9 for the match. Geelong and Brisbane are both defensive teams like us because defence wins premierships. 

Ignoring all that .... we've still kicked the 3rd most points of any team this year.

Edit: Lord Nev put up averages, which is better. Our numbers actually look less flattering because we haven't run up the scoreboard against the poorer teams like some other teams have .... but doing that doesn't mean anything in finals.

Edited June 16, 20213 yr by Axis of Bob
Post at same time as LN

  On 16/06/2021 at 01:51, Lord Nev said:

The current top 8 and their average scores:

Melbourne - 88.5
Bulldogs - 98.8
Geelong - 88.3
Brisbane - 93.7
Port - 87.3
Sydney - 86.3
Eagles - 90.1
Richmond - 86.9

I think the 'goal kicking power' point is being oversold and it's pretty lazy analysis by the media at the moment to be focusing on our forward line.

On current averages we are ahead of Geelong (Hawkins and Cameron), Port (Dixon), Sydney (Buddy, Papley) and Richmond (Riewoldt, Lynch).

We're also ahead of other 'goal kicking power' teams like Adelaide (Walker) 79.8, Carlton (Mackay) 84.7, Gold Coast (King) 71.6 and St Kilda (King) 70.6.

We sit 5th in terms of average points scored. I really don't think this is a panic like it's being made out.

 

I don't think that is the full picture.  Maybe other teams go inside 50 less often or with poorer mid-field/delivery or whatever.

I can't get around the fact that if the oppo team has a couple of capable big forward  it certainly induces panic in me (but fortunately less often in our defenders so far).  Unless it can be convincingly argued that our game plan/forward structure would be ruined by having more big key forwards (even if they have different attributes to what we've used so far), surely it gives us the chance of bigger scores and more panic amongst oppo defenders.    And if we can adjust to take advantage of those different attributes, all the better.

Edit:  By "more big key forwards" I mean 2 in form, not more than the number we have used to date.

Edited June 16, 20213 yr by sue

  On 16/06/2021 at 01:51, Lord Nev said:

We sit 5th in terms of average points scored. I really don't think this is a panic like it's being made out.

 

Snip. I unboxed my panic detector and it was flat out doing 0. I put my panic detector away realising there was no panic. Instead I pulled out my Observo-Matic 2000 out and it was pinging off the dial like a Chernobyl geiger counter detecting observations ahoy hoy.

  On 16/06/2021 at 02:11, sue said:

I don't think that is the full picture.  Maybe other teams go inside 50 less often or with poorer mid-field/delivery or whatever.

I can't get around the fact that if the oppo team has a couple of capable big forward  it certainly induces panic in me (but fortunately less often in our defenders so far).  Unless it can be convincingly argued that our game plan/forward structure would be ruined by having more big key forwards (even if they have different attributes to what we've used so far), surely it gives us the chance of bigger scores and more panic amongst oppo defenders.    And if we can adjust to take advantage of those different attributes, all the better.

 

Good perspective.

We are fumbling around trying to find a FF. A good way to think about this, along your lines is: if we added a Kennedy, Hawkins, Walker, Cameron (etc) type FF to our forward line would we be better or worse.*

 

 

* Rhetorical question.

This could have some mileage - this could turn into a Saty-like "Gaff is an accumulator" thread with just the right dash of trolling.

 

 

He'll be playing VFL this week BBB along with Vines and Jonesy.

A big game this Sat should ensure he is back in for the Bombers game.

Edited June 16, 20213 yr by Win4theAges

  On 16/06/2021 at 02:23, Superunknown said:

A good way to think about this, along your lines is: if we added a Kennedy, Hawkins, Walker, Cameron (etc) type FF to our forward line would we be better or worse.*

That's like asking if we would be better off replacing Tom Sparrow with Dustin Martin. Of course we are better off replacing a role player with one of the best players in the league, but it's not a useful comparison.

Geelong paid 3 first round picks for Jeremy Cameron. West Coast, in part, gave up Chris Judd for Kennedy. There are trade offs for all the decisions. I'm sure that if we spent 3 first round picks and a chunk of our salary cap, we would have a superstar key forward to pair with TMac ..... but our team would be worse off overall. 

  On 16/06/2021 at 02:11, sue said:

I don't think that is the full picture.  Maybe other teams go inside 50 less often or with poorer mid-field/delivery or whatever.

I can't get around the fact that if the oppo team has a couple of capable big forward  it certainly induces panic in me (but fortunately less often in our defenders so far).  Unless it can be convincingly argued that our game plan/forward structure would be ruined by having more big key forwards (even if they have different attributes to what we've used so far), surely it gives us the chance of bigger scores and more panic amongst oppo defenders.    And if we can adjust to take advantage of those different attributes, all the better.

More key forwards doesn't automatically mean more goals from them though. Out of our top 5 goal kickers this year only one is a key forward and we're top of the ladder.

Weid and Brown played together, against Carlton and we kicked a higher than average score for us. Neither Weid or Brown kicked a goal though. That was the end of the 3 permanent tall forwards experiment it seems. In that game we had only 7 tackles inside 50, fairly below our average of 11.3.

Bulldogs and Brisbane are the two highest scoring teams this year, we beat both of them.

As far as inside 50s go, we're 3rd for average inside 50s and 5th for average score. Seems fairly balanced. Dogs are number 1 in both categories, Lions number 2 in both.

We play a fairly fast rebounding style this year, in which forward pressure is very important, IMO playing more key forwards hurts us in that area. Personally, I'd go back to the setup we had at the start of the year with TMac, Fritsch and then Gawn/Jackson rotating forward. During that time we averaged 89.5 points per game, compared to 88.0 the rest of the year. So we actually averaged slightly more with less key forwards.

  On 16/06/2021 at 02:21, Superunknown said:

Snip. I unboxed my panic detector and it was flat out doing 0. I put my panic detector away realising there was no panic. Instead I pulled out my Observo-Matic 2000 out and it was pinging off the dial like a Chernobyl geiger counter detecting observations ahoy hoy.

Should have clarified, that's a general comment, not directed at you, to what i think is a big overreaction in a lot of places about our 'goal kicking power' which isn't backed up by the stats.