8 hours ago, binman said:

Such calls from dees fans, who i assume actually watch our games. are headache inducing.

Add calls for nibbler to be dropped to that mix.

And I needed a pack of panadol to deal with the suggestion fritter should be dropped after the swans game.

 

Putting Nibbler and Fritsch in the same sentence as Brayshaw is a little unfair. 

Brayshaw is an inside mid who has been forced out onto the wing where all of his positive attributes don't get utilised. Further to that, all of his flaws in his game (lack of leg speed, defensive pressure and foot skills) are getting exposed. They either have to find another spot for him or look to get a 2nd rounder for him and cut our losses. He needs to do it for himself. How does one go from 3rd in the brownlow to a fringe player.

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

Putting Nibbler and Fritsch in the same sentence as Brayshaw is a little unfair. 

Brayshaw is an inside mid who has been forced out onto the wing where all of his positive attributes don't get utilised. Further to that, all of his flaws in his game (lack of leg speed, defensive pressure and foot skills) are getting exposed. They either have to find another spot for him or look to get a 2nd rounder for him and cut our losses. He needs to do it for himself. How does one go from 3rd in the brownlow to a fringe player.

So why did you do it?

Edited May 17, 20214 yr by ManDee
And I think you are the only one to do it.

In: Jackson, Viney 

Out: B.Brown, Chandler (absolutely hate dropping a guy after one game but Viney)

On 5/16/2021 at 9:17 PM, Beetle said:

He is 200cm tall.

He may appear slow, but his work at ground level, including tackling is exceptional for his size.

Exceptional hey. So where does Luke Jackson sit if BBB is exceptional - on another planet. 

Try this: BBB has some limitations at ground level which are expected given he is 200cm tall. 

PS: Nic Nat says high all the way from Neptune as well.

I am actually hoping that both Viney and Jackson aren't rushed back and we get them ready for the Dogs game, which will be our second 6-day break in a row and we will need fresh legs.

I also want to see how Weid and Chandler go again.

Chandler was uber-impressive against the Tiger pre-season and has stepped up at VFL level. He got pinged in a tackle early and it was one of those days where nothing went right for him - even the Gatorade drenching post-game. But he did keep working hard on covering players (Saad, Docherty etc) and deserves another shot. 

Weid had to get used to a predominantly new roaming forward/ruck position (aka Jacko), which was very different to last year's main man role. His first real big chance, where he shrugged off his man saw Chandler spoil him, which was a shame - but that's football - it doesn't always  work out.

I am also hopeful that one of our mids is given a break so that Tom Sparrow gets his chance to see if he can get closer to dominating after two mega impressive VFL games.  

53 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

In: Jackson, Viney 

Out: B.Brown, Chandler (absolutely hate dropping a guy after one game but Viney)

I reckon Goody does too.

I wonder if they, knowing jack was likely to come back against Adelaide, wanted to give Chandler a game to reward his effort, give him some more AFL experience and some confidence that the club think he is ready for the call up when it comes. 

If so they would have worded him up so his confidence didn't take a hit when dropped after the one game.

It is a bit unfortunate for him that he had such a quiet game. But apart from being doused in milk, the experience can only be a positive.

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Putting Nibbler and Fritsch in the same sentence as Brayshaw is a little unfair. 

Brayshaw is an inside mid who has been forced out onto the wing where all of his positive attributes don't get utilised. Further to that, all of his flaws in his game (lack of leg speed, defensive pressure and foot skills) are getting exposed. They either have to find another spot for him or look to get a 2nd rounder for him and cut our losses. He needs to do it for himself. How does one go from 3rd in the brownlow to a fringe player.

Brayshaw had a rough game against the Swans and made some poor skill errors in an otherwise good game against Carlton.

I'm grateful that we have players with humility that are willing to just play a role. Gus reads the game really well and is an asset to the team.

I think many here use that surprise Brownlow finish and his early draft position as a knock on him. I don't see any reason to judge him against those things. It's his ability to play a role for the team that is all that matters.

I've seen some signs that he's really starting to understand his role in the team as a high intercept player. His courage is outstanding.

Had he used the ball well on Sunday, he would have been in my top 5 on the field and he has shown previously that he is more than capable of doing that.

I reckon long term or even this week Jackson and Viney might both come in, rotations starting,  with quite possibly Petracca still injured and out, and we start playing all our bigs together right up to and including Finals if we make it.

Remember two of our big blokes are rovers virtually...

18 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

I am actually hoping that both Viney and Jackson aren't rushed back and we get them ready for the Dogs game, which will be our second 6-day break in a row and we will need fresh legs.

I also want to see how Weid and Chandler go again.

Chandler was uber-impressive against the Tiger pre-season and has stepped up at VFL level. He got pinged in a tackle early and it was one of those days where nothing went right for him - even the Gatorade drenching post-game. But he did keep working hard on covering players (Saad, Docherty etc) and deserves another shot. 

Weid had to get used to a predominantly new roaming forward/ruck position (aka Jacko), which was very different to last year's main man role. His first real big chance, where he shrugged off his man saw Chandler spoil him, which was a shame - but that's football - it doesn't always  work out.

I am also hopeful that one of our mids is given a break so that Tom Sparrow gets his chance to see if he can get closer to dominating after two mega impressive VFL games.  

I agree - Would like to see Chandler get another run at it. Seemed a bit unlucky.

Also think another week of the three headed monster up forward wouldn't be a terrible thing - this stuff is never going to click straight away.

Would like to see the same team ...conditions look good ...little wind & fine & a 4.35 game. No excuses for big forwards & as per May & Lever ...connection doesn’t happen overnight. I’d be happy to leave Viney for one more match & also Jackson. Chandler also deserves another week ...

13 hours ago, rpfc said:

We all laud our new selfless buy in to ‘The System’ and the Demon Web and all that and if you are not playing your role in that you are on borrowed time. 

ANB, Spargo, Kosi, Fritsch, Jackson, Hibberd, Rivers, Harmes, Brown, Jordon, Brayshaw, Hunt, Petty, and TMac are all best 22 in 2021 if they are in form AND bought in. But if they do not buy in - there are players available who would be selected to replace them who would be happy to play that role.

Spot on. Which is clearly why Melksham got dropped. But he is the exception to prove the rule.

And who would want to lose their spot in this team at this point in time? 

To that list of players add Jordon. A young player who has done everything that has been asked of him this season. And is fully, all chips in.

That was crystal clear in his phenomenal performance on Saturday.  He was clearly asked to play Viney's role as the hard nosed, defensive mid and was a big reason why we won the center clearance count, albeit by one, after last weeks lopsided differential.

His pressure was off the charts as evidenced by his game high 37 pressure acts and 13 tackles (also game high).

By the by it is interesting that Jordon's DE was 50%. He is normally up in the 80-90% range, in large part because he is an excellent kick. But more significantly, we have used him as an outside player on the flanks, so he usually has a bit of time and space to dispose of the ball. As a pure inside mid he is obviously under heaps more pressure.

It is a good reminder, i reckon, to look at DE in context for players like Viney, Tracc and Oliver. Pity Brayshaw doesn't have that get out!

On DE, although their disposal numbers were pretty low, May (and he kicks it out i guess) and Lever were both in the 90s and Rivers was mid 80s. Solid. And makes so much harder for them to get the ball back from us.

That said Petty, who i think is an excellent kick, went at 55%. That needs to be an outlier.

Edited May 18, 20214 yr by binman

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

How does one go from 3rd in the brownlow to a fringe player.

Concussions. 
He has had atleast 4 of them and if he gets another bad one he is done as a footballer. 

He is being played on the outside because it protects him from himself, because he can't help but lead with his head when going for the ball.

9 minutes ago, binman said:

By the by it is interesting that Jordon's DE was 50%. He is normally up in the 80-90% range, in large part because he is an excellent kick. But more significantly, we have used him as an outside player on the flanks, so he usually has a bit of time and space to dispose of the ball. As a pure inside mid he is obviously under heaps more pressure.

When Carlton were coming hard, Jordon got in and under and dump kicked it 3 times to just get the ball out of the D50 and each time it went to a Carlton player.  Every time it was the right choice to give our defence the time to reset and get the ball out of the area.This negatively impacts his DE percentage but was the right thing to do in game.

3 hours ago, Dr.D said:

I don't like the narrative about keeping viney out until the dogs etc. The 4 points against Adelaide are worth just as much as against the bulldogs. We have been getting hammered in centre clearances so if he is deemed fit he comes straight back into the guts. We don't want to lose to adelaide with bulldogs and lions following. 

It’s about making sure his foot is 100% because we don’t have a good history with his feet issues.

29 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It’s about making sure his foot is 100% because we don’t have a good history with his feet issues.

agree.  people the people commenting aren't physios,  nor have they seen the injury or know anything about the healing process. They're just scared based on previous history. if he had a blister on his foot, its still listed as a foot injury but it has no relation to previous injuries.

Not really team change related, but does anyone know what the outcome of Bowey’s injury was?

hopefully it isn’t too serious.

1 hour ago, binman said:

Spot on. Which is clearly why Melksham got dropped. 

But he is clearly the exception to prove the rule. the but in seems total. And who now would want to lose their spot in this team? 

To that list of players add Jordon. A young player who has done everything that has been asked of him this season. And is fully, all chips in.

That was crystal clear in his phenomenal performance on Saturday.  He was clearly asked to play Viney's role as the hard nosed, defensive mid and was a big reason why we won the center clearance count, albeit by one, after last weeks lopsided differential.

His pressure was off the charts as evidenced by his game high 37 pressure acts and 13 tackles (also game high).

By the by it is interesting that Jordon's DE was 50%. He is normally up in the 80-90% range, in large part because he is an excellent kick. But more significantly, we have used him as an outside player on the flanks, so he usually has a bit of time and space to dispose of the ball. As a pure inside mid he is obviously under heaps more pressure.

It is a good reminder, i reckon, to look at DE in context for players like Viney, Tracc and Oliver. Pity Brayshaw doesn't have that get out!

On DE, although their disposal numbers were pretty low, May (and he kicks it out i guess) and Lever were both in the 90s and Rivers was mid 80s. Solid. And makes so much harder for them to get the ball back from us.

That said Petty, who i think is an excellent kick, went at 55%. That needs to be an outlier.

Good post. Although I think a big part of the Chandler for Melksham swap was that Weideman was coming in for Jackson. My guess is that they wanted another crumber to work below the three key marking players. (Jackson being more of a hybrid than Weideman.)

Ironically, Chandler spoiled Weideman in the first quarter.

30 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Good post. Although I think a big part of the Chandler for Melksham swap was that Weideman was coming in for Jackson. My guess is that they wanted another crumber to work below the three key marking players. (Jackson being more of a hybrid than Weideman.)

Ironically, Chandler spoiled Weideman in the first quarter.

weed was not a happy camper about it either

i personally thing brayshaw has become a defensive wingman because it forces him to actually defend; as a primary inside mid he  was judged to only really run one way 

3 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Exceptional hey. So where does Luke Jackson sit if BBB is exceptional - on another planet. 

Try this: BBB has some limitations at ground level which are expected given he is 200cm tall. 

PS: Nic Nat says high all the way from Neptune as well.

You’re right, I was probably over zealous using that word. I was using it more to emphasise the counter argument.

I’ll correct myself and say ‘very good’ for his size.

Naitanui and Jackson are on another level in that regard.

We don't need to bring in Viney for this game, this isn't taking Adel lightly it's just that our mids can cover

 

2 hours ago, FritschyBusiness said:

When Carlton were coming hard, Jordon got in and under and dump kicked it 3 times to just get the ball out of the D50 and each time it went to a Carlton player.  Every time it was the right choice to give our defence the time to reset and get the ball out of the area.This negatively impacts his DE percentage but was the right thing to do in game.

I was glad he wasn’t stuffing around with it, although he probably had more time on one of them. He also wasn’t helped by Ben Brown freelancing and dropping all the way back inside d 50 when he needed to be the outlet target. As long as it’s long, wide and high I don’t mind the dump from the backline kick. It’s on the forwards to be in the right spot. And even if it’s deliberate or out on the full it should be defensible 

5 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Putting Nibbler and Fritsch in the same sentence as Brayshaw is a little unfair. 

Brayshaw is an inside mid who has been forced out onto the wing where all of his positive attributes don't get utilised. Further to that, all of his flaws in his game (lack of leg speed, defensive pressure and foot skills) are getting exposed. They either have to find another spot for him or look to get a 2nd rounder for him and cut our losses. He needs to do it for himself. How does one go from 3rd in the brownlow to a fringe player.

Brayshaw’s lack of leg speed, pressure and skills would be flaws no matter where you put him. I reckon he’s actually pretty quick once he’s rolling, it’s the change of direction that’s the issue. The wing suits that running as much as any position and his inside game still gets used at stoppages.

Also let’s stop pretending he deserved to finish 3rd in the Brownlow. He swallowed up all of Oliver and Gawn’s votes because both talk back to the umps and ones a ruckman. 

Not much point worrying about list management now, for the time being he’s clearly our best option opposite Langdon. Apart from 2 ridiculously bad kicks he played well. 

45 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Brayshaw’s lack of leg speed, pressure and skills would be flaws no matter where you put him. I reckon he’s actually pretty quick once he’s rolling, it’s the change of direction that’s the issue. The wing suits that running as much as any position and his inside game still gets used at stoppages.

Also let’s stop pretending he deserved to finish 3rd in the Brownlow. He swallowed up all of Oliver and Gawn’s votes because both talk back to the umps and ones a ruckman. 

Not much point worrying about list management now, for the time being he’s clearly our best option opposite Langdon. Apart from 2 ridiculously bad kicks he played well. 

Brayshaw did not even get an invitation to the count.

I'd keep the team as is and get Viney and Dogga primed for the friday night blockbuster against the dogs. Chandler and Weids deserve another chance and I think having the extra small forward with the 3 pronged forward attack is a smart move. 

On 5/17/2021 at 4:35 PM, Dr.D said:

agreed on the stats front but in this instance its reflective. Did you watch yesterdays game? did you not notice how brayshaw made mistake after mistake. 

His execution needed to improve (that patch where he had 3-4 clangers was putrid) but you also noted how many attacks he cut off when he did and didn’t get the ball?

Who on our list do you suggest has suddenly worked out how to play the defensive wing position? His role has become critical to why teams cant play quick against us or switch easily.