CASEY DEMONS: Rd 01 vs Box Hill Hawks

[sue 9,006]

Sorry if this has been posted earlier/elsewhere:

Kayo are offering VFL games free on the kayosports.com/freebies      

You have to set up an account but no credit cards needed.  I think an old trial kayo account will also work. 

[bjDee 1,249]

3 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

This doube-header, as an act of some programmer's generosity, is a gift too valuable to actually believe. Particularly for Demon supporters.

Bottle of Scotch about to be opened and lotsa ice. My Clan scotch - Talisker - (Isle of Skye) , just perfect. Donald where's your troosers?

I hear ya, but I hopped into way too much of that last Sunday arvo at home. Piked out of going to the game, with a very exposed ground level seat allocation and crap weather forecast. Turned out to be a bad decision, based on how [censored] I felt on Monday.

This week I’m going to the game to help keep myself a bit tidier. And the neighbours won’t have to hear me yelling and screaming as well. 

[Deemania since 56 6,550]

4 minutes ago, bjDee said:

I hear ya, but I hopped into way too much of that last Sunday arvo at home. Piked out of going to the game, with a very exposed ground level seat allocation and crap weather forecast. Turned out to be a bad decision, based on how [censored] I felt on Monday.

This week I’m going to the game to help keep myself a bit tidier. And the neighbours won’t have to hear me yelling and screaming as well. 

It is a 'sipping' scotch ... in the best top 7 for nearly 60 years. It will be a new bottle for me but I doubt that I will drink more than half, saving the rest for Richmond and then, the Swans, sometime in the future. Nothing like a few Carltons after a scotch or two.

 

[bjDee 1,249]

3 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

It is a 'sipping' scotch ... in the best top 7 for nearly 60 years. It will be a new bottle for me but I doubt that I will drink more than half, saving the rest for Richmond and then, the Swans, sometime in the future. Nothing like a few Carltons after a scotch or two.

 

Good for you brother. 
You’re a better and classier drinker than I am, Gunga-Jim(my)

[Demons11 6,707]

Does anybody know how Deakyn Smith has been going?

[KC from Casey 7,042]

It might come as a surprise but the VFL season has already begun. There was a game earlier this afternoon between Sandringham and Richmond at Punt Road with the Tigers winning by 40 points. There’s a night game on at Frankston with the other Tigers from Coburg leading by a couple of goals.

Strangely enough, nobody can find the named teams for any game at this point in time.

[binman 41,960]

17 minutes ago, KC from Casey said:

It might come as a surprise but the VFL season has already begun. There was a game earlier this afternoon between Sandringham and Richmond at Punt Road with the Tigers winning by 40 points. There’s a night game on at Frankston with the other Tigers from Coburg leading by a couple of goals.

Strangely enough, nobody can find the named teams for any game at this point in time.

It's crazy.

The AFL should be promoting the hell out of the VFL.

A strong, popular VFL can only help footy

 

[Docs Demons 1,748]

Absolute stupidity. The VFL is a joke.

[binman 41,960]

14 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

Absolute stupidity. The VFL is a joke.

Why?

[Brownie 5,864]

16 hours ago, binman said:

It's crazy.

The AFL should be promoting the hell out of the VFL.

A strong, popular VFL can only help footy

 

I was going to ask when and where we were playing but thought I'd do the right thing and look it up.

About six clicks later through the AFL site and I had to download, open and zoom into a pdf document to find out.

12.05pm Sunday btw.

at BCDHMOP stadium or something.

Onya Gil, still killing the game at all levels. Why on earth wouldn't you just play it as a curtain raiser at the G?

Comp is starting four weeks late. Ridiculous.

Good to see it on Kayo at least.

[deanox 9,662]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:20 AM, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd love to see the return of the 'Reserves' teams playing before the 'Firsts' team at the same ground, same day. The atmospheric build-up to the main game was always a super part of a day '...at the footy...'

I still think the best thing they can do for footy is to expand back to a true seconds competition, for the full AFL competition. The distance in quality between AFL and VFL means that kids need to develop at the top level, lowering the overall standard again.

Each team to have 2 squads, a small AFL available squad (~32) with a maximum number of under 20s and secondary reserve/development squad (another ~25 players).

Interchange between the squads allowed on long term inuries or limited other occasions.

Due to the limited AFL squad, it will encourage clubs to develop kids in the reserves competition and keep the best players in the main squad. Raising the standard of the AFL matches (less developing players in AFL).

The ability to interchange between lists should encourage clubs to keep the best non-AFL players in the country on their lists, raising the standed of the seconds competition and therefore the AFL too.

[binman 41,960]

49 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I was going to ask when and where we were playing but thought I'd do the right thing and look it up.

About six clicks later through the AFL site and I had to download, open and zoom into a pdf document to find out.

12.05pm Sunday btw.

at BCDHMOP stadium or something.

Onya Gil, still killing the game at all levels. Why on earth wouldn't you just play it as a curtain raiser at the G?

Comp is starting four weeks late. Ridiculous.

Good to see it on Kayo at least.

it is crazy.

How much does the stupd website cost. Erase it and spend that money on promoting the VFL.

It's doubly crazy given a number of AFL clubs have a side in the VFL, so there is a connection that didn't exist 20 years ago.

[Diamond_Jim 12,357]

There used to be a dedicated VFL website.

Nothing fancy but it worked.

Has now disappeared and everything is through the AFL site.

I am afraid the reality is that they do not want to attract crowds beyond a couple of thousand at most as that would require significant money being spent on additional toilet facilities, attendants etc. Entry is free for most people (or it was) so no money there.

[Chook 14,997]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

I still think the best thing they can do for footy is to expand back to a true seconds competition, for the full AFL competition. The distance in quality between AFL and VFL means that kids need to develop at the top level, lowering the overall standard again.

Each team to have 2 squads, a small AFL available squad (~32) with a maximum number of under 20s and secondary reserve/development squad (another ~25 players).

Interchange between the squads allowed on long term inuries or limited other occasions.

Due to the limited AFL squad, it will encourage clubs to develop kids in the reserves competition and keep the best players in the main squad. Raising the standard of the AFL matches (less developing players in AFL).

The ability to interchange between lists should encourage clubs to keep the best non-AFL players in the country on their lists, raising the standed of the seconds competition and therefore the AFL too.

Totally agreed,

This tendency for clubs to "rebuild" in the AFL (with the associated 2-3 or more years of consistent terrible performance) is an indictment on the AFL because it basically shows the only way clubs have of developing their young players is by exposing them and the club to consistent beltings in the top-level competition.

To borrow a phrase from my industry, it's the epitome of "testing in production." Any business that does that is amateur at best.

[deanox 9,662]

28 minutes ago, Chook said:

Totally agreed,

This tendency for clubs to "rebuild" in the AFL (with the associated 2-3 or more years of consistent terrible performance) is an indictment on the AFL because it basically shows the only way clubs have of developing their young players is by exposing them and the club to consistent beltings in the top-level competition.

To borrow a phrase from my industry, it's the epitome of "testing in production." Any business that does that is amateur at best.

I think the problem is that all the money is going to the top handful of players, leaving none for the journeymen.

To make this work, the full reserves comp needs to be full time, not a mix like currently (ie our Casey players are effectively amateur), with overflow only going to a 3rd tier if needed.

Minimum salary for AFL players is $115k next year and $85k for rookies (plus match fees for AFL). The reserves grade need to be around the $100k mark to make it a reasonable career choice, retaining the best 2nd tier players in one comp.

I'd also consider having the reserve squad having a minimum number under 21 and a minimum number over 23 (or something), so that clubs are forced to keep career 2nd tier players on board and therefore keep the competition standard up, rather than turning it into a development squad of kids.

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by deanox

[deanox 9,662]

30 minutes ago, Chook said:

To borrow a phrase from my industry, it's the epitome of "testing in production." Any business that does that is amateur at best.

Wait, you mean the AFL is not operated professionally?

[Pates 9,625]

52 minutes ago, deanox said:

I think the problem is that all the money is going to the top handful of players, leaving none for the journeymen.

To make this work, the full reserves comp needs to be full time, not a mix like currently (ie our Casey players are effectively amateur), with overflow only going to a 3rd tier if needed.

Minimum salary for AFL players is $115k next year and $85k for rookies (plus match fees for AFL). The reserves grade need to be around the $100k mark to make it a reasonable career choice, retaining the best 2nd tier players in one comp.

I'd also consider having the reserve squad having a minimum number under 21 and a minimum number over 23 (or something), so that clubs are forced to keep career 2nd tier players on board and therefore keep the competition standard up, rather than turning it into a development squad of kids.

 

This would be a great idea if there was money in the reserves competition from crowds turning up to watch and watching on TV. In an ideal world it would be something similar to the popularity of the EFL in the UK or college football in the states where there’s enough interest to sustain it as a low-end professional league. 

The catch is that if the AFL do this then it could pull interest away from the main league so the question is would they be willing to sacrifice crowd sizes and broadcast ratings for the AFL in order to boost and provide a serious 2nd tier competition. 

[Deemania since 56 6,550]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

Wait, you mean the AFL is not operated professionally?

There was a close link and information flow between the Firsts and the Reserves - and this was explored and scanned closely by the general public (usually across several clubs at a time) before team selections for the game that week. Tens of hundreds of fans assembled at the ground during Reserve game time to observe, support and familiarise with the Reserve players prior to the main match that followed with the Firsts. It put the supporter '...deep inside the Club and the thinking that the Club employed...' that was updated weekly in 'both-teams' performances. Now that was an aspect of football administration that was effective, highly efficient and professionally organised - but it was scrapped ... never to return. Two games for the price of one every week and some weeks, there was a night series played, as well. 

 

[Docs Demons 1,748]

3 hours ago, binman said:

it is crazy.

How much does the stupd website cost. Erase it and spend that money on promoting the VFL.

It's doubly crazy given a number of AFL clubs have a side in the VFL, so there is a connection that didn't exist 20 years ago.

Exactly Binman and you answered your own question to my post yesterday

[Nascent 8,644]

I had an AFL notification about a live game. It was for what appeared to be a vfl game between Carlton and STP which I presume to be Southport sharks. It looked like the AFL game centre complete with live stats and all the named players. However I accidentally closed the window and have not been able to find it since. Can't even find a simple link to the vfl pages on the afl website and when I get there most links seem to come back to the afl games. 

[deanox 9,662]

4 hours ago, Pates said:

This would be a great idea if there was money in the reserves competition from crowds turning up to watch and watching on TV. In an ideal world it would be something similar to the popularity of the EFL in the UK or college football in the states where there’s enough interest to sustain it as a low-end professional league. 

The catch is that if the AFL do this then it could pull interest away from the main league so the question is would they be willing to sacrifice crowd sizes and broadcast ratings for the AFL in order to boost and provide a serious 2nd tier competition. 

Why does the reserves comp need to be financially self sufficient?

If we fund the reserves comp out of the AFL money, it will increase the quality of the AFL product overall. Increased quality in AFL product would mean increased revenue overall.

The only problem is that this is a long term approach to growth (a but like sharing the TV exposure around). And the AFL have taken a short term approach to maximise the earnings of the top handful of players (a bit like playing Collingwood every Friday).

[dl4e 5,849]

I rreally wonder what the side is. Had a look earlier at Casey and vfl but nothing. 

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

It’s on free to air for Melbourne anyway

[Pates 9,625]

21 minutes ago, deanox said:

Why does the reserves comp need to be financially self sufficient?

If we fund the reserves comp out of the AFL money, it will increase the quality of the AFL product overall. Increased quality in AFL product would mean increased revenue overall.

The only problem is that this is a long term approach to growth (a but like sharing the TV exposure around). And the AFL have taken a short term approach to maximise the earnings of the top handful of players (a bit like playing Collingwood every Friday).

I guess I see it as if the reserves players are going to be paid as full time professionals we can’t continue with the second tier being a nothing league with zero interest. I think there needs to be a level of interest and exposure to it that gives it respect in its own right. Perhaps the prize money for winning the reserves is worth say 400k or a salary cap concession. 

I’d agree that maybe it doesn’t need to be self sufficient but I think it should be sustainable where it doesn’t become a money pit. 

[deanox 9,662]

47 minutes ago, Pates said:

I guess I see it as if the reserves players are going to be paid as full time professionals we can’t continue with the second tier being a nothing league with zero interest. I think there needs to be a level of interest and exposure to it that gives it respect in its own right. Perhaps the prize money for winning the reserves is worth say 400k or a salary cap concession. 

I’d agree that maybe it doesn’t need to be self sufficient but I think it should be sustainable where it doesn’t become a money pit. 

The point of it is not to be self sustainable though. The point is for it to be good enough to support the proper development of young players and good enough that journey players (who are good enough to be on the verge of the AFL but clearly not career stars) aren't lost to the game because they don't get paid.

Basically the reserves league is propping up the quality of the main comp. Thus the investment.

 

I like the idea of something that adds interest, and I think salary cap or draft picks would be a good idea.

 

Edit: Draft picks might work as a balance. Keeping a strong seconds list means higher draft picks. Drafting too many raw kids means the ressies get smashed and the picks go down.

Edited April 17, 2021 by deanox