On 10/10/2020 at 02:42, JimmyGadson said:

Never understood why we persisted for so long with him as our number one or two key post and whilst I obviously don't rate him, it's hard not to show empathy for how he must feel walking on and off the field sometimes given the amount of abuse he cops. I'm not sure how I'd handle that level scrutiny week-in-week-out.

What angers me is that the club to some degree allowed this to happen far too often and for too long. It's a complete mismanagement of a young player, not dissimilar to the way we developed Watts early days.

To my mind and the mind of many others, Oscar was not only not playing to the level early days, but his body was completely underdeveloped. Yet we persisted with him weekly in the hope it'd fast track him which just simply didn't happen.

I'm not sure any Melbourne supporter can honestly say he improved and developed in the manner young key position players should over the course of his career to date? Can they?

It's the clubs fault as much as it is his own and now we're trading him.

Sometimes it's almost as if our club is run by nuffies. I can't imagine any other side in the AFL who would play such an underdeveloped key position player as a number one key defender for as long as we did.

Especially one who had so many weaknesses to work on from both a footballing and physical point of view.

Plays exactly the way he does when he played back in 2016. Has not improved one bit, and yet I was horrified to hear that at the start of the year talks had been going well about a potential new 2 year deal.

It's an indictment on the club that we've gifted him 80 games to show absolutely zip development. 

Oscar needs to do what's best for his own career and sought out a trade to a club in need of a depth backman who can fill in for a game here and there.

 

Why did we put all that work in to him?

It's like trading Steve Waugh to England when he was a handy swing bowler who batted a bit.

  On 10/10/2020 at 03:42, dazzledavey36 said:

Oscar needs to do what's best for his own career and sought out a trade to a club in need of a depth backman who can fill in for a game here and there.

 

That's pretty much the role he is playing here now.

You would think he would move to a club that guarantees him more playing time than we can, but that offer has to be out there for him to do it. Otherwise he'll do a Preuss and end up in the same situation at a different club.

  On 10/10/2020 at 03:54, Wiseblood said:

That's pretty much the role he is playing here now.

You would think he would move to a club that guarantees him more playing time than we can, but that offer has to be out there for him to do it. Otherwise he'll do a Preuss and end up in the same situation at a different club.

Doggies, Port Adelaide and Fremantle would be the 3 who would be in serious need of a backman.

  On 10/10/2020 at 03:56, dazzledavey36 said:

Doggies, Port Adelaide and Fremantle would be the 3 who would be in serious need of a backman.

But if we all think he sucks, why would those teams take him on as a potential best 22 player?

We've 'gifted' him 80 odd games, but then a potential Grand Finalist are happy to have him in their back line?

I'm not denying that it is time we moved him on, but we can't say he sucks in one breath and then expect other teams to slot him in their back line as if they wouldn't notice themselves.

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:02, Wiseblood said:

But if we all think he sucks, why would those teams take him on as a potential best 22 player?

We've 'gifted' him 80 odd games, but then a potential Grand Finalist are happy to have him in their back line?

I'm not denying that it is time we moved him on, but we can't say he sucks in one breath and then expect other teams to slot him in their back line as if they wouldn't notice themselves.

I guarantee you he will never get a game at another club. He tries hard but is not AFL standard 

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:02, Wiseblood said:

But if we all think he sucks, why would those teams take him on as a potential best 22 player?

We've 'gifted' him 80 odd games, but then a potential Grand Finalist are happy to have him in their back line?

I'm not denying that it is time we moved him on, but we can't say he sucks in one breath and then expect other teams to slot him in their back line as if they wouldn't notice themselves.

In my first post I did also say clubs who are in need of depth backman who can plug in for a game here and there.

For instance, Fremantle backing were riddled with injuries. Oscar would have gotten a a gig. Port at times also had a undersized backline.

He's not going to clubs to be in best 22.

Trivia time.

Zac Dawson was named, alongside Lenny Hayes,as St Kilda's "Player of the Finals' in 2010. He was also a pillar of the St Kilda 2009 finals run, as well as being highly regarded in finals at Fremantle, including "Player of the Finals' in 2014.

That's Zac Dawson. The unco, dour, skinny, tall defender who 'never looked like it' and who nobody really rated even AFTER he was given these nods.

I'm far from writing off Oscar McDonald and people really need to accept that the modern last-line-of-defence player is probably the hardest to judge from outside the club, especially on television. 

I've said before that I would accept it comfortably if he was traded, but I hate that people talk such rubbish about him, and I wouldn't be troubled at all if he stayed on our list.

 

Don’t see why any club would want him, perhaps as back up/depth. So if it happens it’ll be for nothing or a 4th rounder. 
not trying to be harsh, he’s just not a great player 

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:09, DubDee said:

Don’t see why any club would want him, perhaps as back up/depth. So if it happens it’ll be for nothing or a 4th rounder. 
not trying to be harsh, he’s just not a great player 

Its not harsh, just the reality really.

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:09, dazzledavey36 said:

In my first post I did also say clubs who are in need of depth backman who can plug in for a game here and there.

For instance, Fremantle backing were riddled with injuries. Oscar would have gotten a a gig. Port at times also had a undersized backline.

He's not going to clubs to be in best 22.

Which is what we can do.

If that is good enough for other clubs, then it is good enough for us.

He is probably better off going elsewhere for a fresh start, but I don't understand how some can write him off as no good but then expect other teams to take him off our hands.  If he was that bad then clubs wouldn't touch him.

  On 10/10/2020 at 03:07, Pollyanna said:

English at Western.  He's going to be a very good player.  Maybe Beveridge is a nuffie?

 

  On 10/10/2020 at 03:20, whatwhatsaywhat said:

or malthouse who pushed josh fraser to start straight away (200 games) or buckley who did the same to brodie grundy (second best ruckman of his generation)

 

I can't help either of you if you genuinely can't see the stark differences in those comparisons. 

You've compared two first round draft picks to Oscar, a speculative pick in the 50's.

Oscar didn't have the body, or the ability early days. The others you've mentioned didn't have the body but offered a greater skill set.

Look no further than our own Luke Jackson. Played this season, doesn't have the body but has serious ability and most importantly, competes with an edge.

Oscar had limited ability and nearly always lacked intensity and desire.

Edited October 10, 20204 yr by JimmyGadson

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:09, Little Goffy said:

Trivia time.

Zac Dawson was named, alongside Lenny Hayes,as St Kilda's "Player of the Finals' in 2010. He was also a pillar of the St Kilda 2009 finals run, as well as being highly regarded in finals at Fremantle, including "Player of the Finals' in 2014.

That's Zac Dawson. The unco, dour, skinny, tall defender who 'never looked like it' and who nobody really rated even AFTER he was given these nods.

I'm far from writing off Oscar McDonald and people really need to accept that the modern last-line-of-defence player is probably the hardest to judge from outside the club, especially on television. 

I've said before that I would accept it comfortably if he was traded, but I hate that people talk such rubbish about him, and I wouldn't be troubled at all if he stayed on our list.

 

Zac Dawson was a good athlete who built strength and became a very good defensive player even with limited skills. 

Oscar's never shown any kind of athleticism and hasn't improved his defensive ability. 

The camera work likely obscures some of stuff Oscar does well but too many times he'll be in good position with his opponent and just led to the ball. If you can't compete you aren't even going to make it.

  On 10/10/2020 at 05:20, JimmyGadson said:

Interesting comparison. I'd agree their 'footballing ability' was not dissimilar.

However, there's still a glaringly obvious difference between Zac Dawson and Oscar McDonald and a reason why Zac played so many games and was indeed named as 'player of the finals series'.

Anyone want a *crack ? 

*(Hint)

Dawson was like a slightly smarter, better positioned and touch slower version of Frosty. Could make plenty of blunders but he'd make you earn your kick one on one.

When left to try to defend a man and the ball at the same time Oscar wilts and fails to get to the contest. Just can't read the play physically or mentally quick enough. I've often thought if we could send him to the Germans back in the day and load him up with meth he'd be a chance to show a bit of intensity. Unfortunately ASADA wouldn't approve.

  On 10/10/2020 at 05:09, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I can't help either of you if you genuinely can't see the stark differences in those comparisons. 

You've compared two first round draft picks to Oscar, a speculative pick in the 50's.

Oscar didn't have the body, or the ability early days. The others you've mentioned didn't have the body but offered a greater skill set.

Look no further than our own Luke Jackson. Played this season, doesn't have the body but has serious ability and most importantly, competes with an edge.

Oscar had limited ability and nearly always lacked intensity and desire.

Yeah even better, cripple potential stars by exposing them in a more demanding position before they are physically ready for it.

  On 10/10/2020 at 05:49, Pollyanna said:

Yeah even better, cripple potential stars by exposing them in a more demanding position before they are physically ready for it.

What. Didn't you just use English as your rebuttal?

Confusing.

As long as you manage young players, it shouldn't be not an issue. 

Oscar McDonald wasn't managed well. In all ways. The end.

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:18, Wiseblood said:

Which is what we can do.

If that is good enough for other clubs, then it is good enough for us.

He is probably better off going elsewhere for a fresh start, but I don't understand how some can write him off as no good but then expect other teams to take him off our hands.  If he was that bad then clubs wouldn't touch him.

But don't you think its damming that the club preferred Joel Smith ahead of him towards the end? I think that's quiet telling on McDonald's behalf.

And to the highlighted part, it happens every year during trade period and delisted free agency Wise. If Goodwin simply sees no plans for him at this footy club moving forward, then what's to say a Fremantle or North Melbourne that can pick him up cheap and get 10 games out of him. Its the nature of the trade and free agency world.

May, Lever, and Tomlinson will be our starting backs next year with Joel Smith and Petty as our back up options.

Oscar's had 6 years to show something and imo he's shown no improvement from when he started.

It's time for him to move on and stop hanging on to list cloggers. Is the club is fair dinkum about being ruthless then its list changes like these that needs to happen.

I do appreciate Oscar for trying his hardest each and every game and thank him for his efforts. But its time now that he and the club moves on.

My memory was he was a late pick and likely influenced because of Tom so he has done okish in a less than okish team. Would he have improved at a Hawthorn, probably.

  On 10/10/2020 at 06:12, dazzledavey36 said:

But don't you think its damming that the club preferred Joel Smith ahead of him towards the end? I think that's quiet telling on McDonald's behalf.

And to the highlighted part, it happens every year during trade period and delisted free agency Wise. If Goodwin simply sees no plans for him at this footy club moving forward, then what's to say a Fremantle or North Melbourne that can pick him up cheap and get 10 games out of him. Its the nature of the trade and free agency world.

May, Lever, and Tomlinson will be our starting backs next year with Joel Smith and Petty as our back up options.

Oscar's had 6 years to show something and imo he's shown no improvement from when he started.

It's time for him to move on and stop hanging on to list cloggers. Is the club is fair dinkum about being ruthless then its list changes like these that needs to happen.

I do appreciate Oscar for trying his hardest each and every game and thank him for his efforts. But its time now that he and the club moves on.

I agree with all of that, dazzle.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that some supporters are quick to call him spud, useless etc (not saying that was you), yet they then turn around and think others will pick him up and have him on their list.  He can't be that bad if that's the case.

And I think the re-signing of Smith for another season might be the final nail in the coffin for Oscar.  I think it would be beneficial for both parties to move him on during this off-season.  I'm not too fussed what we get for him either.  A third or fourth rounder (or a swap of third rounders that sees us move up 5 or 6 positions, for example) will probably be the outcome.

  On 10/10/2020 at 06:20, Wiseblood said:

I agree with all of that, dazzle.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that some supporters are quick to call him spud, useless etc (not saying that was you), yet they then turn around and think others will pick him up and have him on their list.  He can't be that bad if that's the case.

And I think the re-signing of Smith for another season might be the final nail in the coffin for Oscar.  I think it would be beneficial for both parties to move him on during this off-season.  I'm not too fussed what we get for him either.  A third or fourth rounder (or a swap of third rounders that sees us move up 5 or 6 positions, for example) will probably be the outcome.

Yes I've been known to say those things in the past on poor Oscar in the heat of the moment. But I made a real effort this year to not use the term 'spud'. We forget they're humans at the end of the day.

But on a pure football sense I think its best he gets a fresh start somewhere else.

But Melbourne fans need to also be realistic. We'll be looking at a late 3rd round draft pick early 4th.

 

  On 10/10/2020 at 05:09, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I can't help either of you if you genuinely can't see the stark differences in those comparisons. 

You've compared two first round draft picks to Oscar, a speculative pick in the 50's.

Oscar didn't have the body, or the ability early days. The others you've mentioned didn't have the body but offered a greater skill set.

Look no further than our own Luke Jackson. Played this season, doesn't have the body but has serious ability and most importantly, competes with an edge.

Oscar had limited ability and nearly always lacked intensity and desire.

not comparing them to o mac; comparing them to jackson

we've got 250+ games out of two players who were selected in the 50s - that's amazing

if we now trade oscar for anything below a fourth rounder we'll have got 'worth' out of him

i complete understand why the coaches persevered with him - we didn't have anyone else to play the role of key defender - the minute we did we added lever and then may

he's been a durable and occasionally effective player; his bro even more so

i personally think he'll get a go at another club and given his relative youth could definitely see him playing for another six to eight seasons; alternatively he might only last another three if he gets replaced by someone better

a team like hawthorn could do worse than look at him as defensive coverage, something that they arguably lack

i would thoroughly enjoy seeing frost and o mac running around together again, and personally would wish them all the luck in the world other than against us

Edited October 10, 20204 yr by whatwhatsaywhat

  On 10/10/2020 at 02:42, JimmyGadson said:

Sometimes it's almost as if our club is run by nuffies. I can't imagine any other side in the AFL who would play such an underdeveloped key position player as a number one key defender for as long as we did.

Especially one who had so many weaknesses to work on from both a footballing and physical point of view.

A common, and big, ponderous realisation. We did little to improve him - or was that even possible? We will do better without such a freeway through the backline.

 

  On 10/10/2020 at 06:05, JimmyGadson said:

What. Didn't you just use English as your rebuttal?

Confusing.

As long as you manage young players, it shouldn't be not an issue. 

Oscar McDonald wasn't managed well. In all ways. The end.

You are making the point that MFC is particularly bad at managing developing tall players and used OMac as an example.  I used English as an example of another club mismanaging a tall in worse ways and @whatwhatsaywhat brought up the even more conclusive example of Josh Fraser. 

Your whole shtick is unique "MFC mismananagement". You seem unable to follow a relatively straightforward rebuttal.

OMacs worth about a token pick around the sixties if someone wants him. he could be a target for a rebuilding team as a full back for a year or two while they develop a kid to ultimately replace him.

  On 10/10/2020 at 04:09, Little Goffy said:

Trivia time.

Zac Dawson was named, alongside Lenny Hayes,as St Kilda's "Player of the Finals' in 2010. He was also a pillar of the St Kilda 2009 finals run, as well as being highly regarded in finals at Fremantle, including "Player of the Finals' in 2014.

That's Zac Dawson. The unco, dour, skinny, tall defender who 'never looked like it' and who nobody really rated even AFTER he was given these nods.

I'm far from writing off Oscar McDonald and people really need to accept that the modern last-line-of-defence player is probably the hardest to judge from outside the club, especially on television. 

I've said before that I would accept it comfortably if he was traded, but I hate that people talk such rubbish about him, and I wouldn't be troubled at all if he stayed on our list.

 

Dawson was 10x better than OMac is