Full Review of the AFL called for by Swans and Hawks

[old dee 23,872]

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

You hear that mantra discussed often but given the crowds of the second team in Sydney and Brisbane it doesn't really hold water. When the TV ratings for the second team are published they rarely score well.

They also used to agrue that it got them media coverage but that is probably not borne out by reality either.

Knowing a few Swans supporters in Sydney they have no interest whatsoever in GWS.

One other point...big revenue growth in the next ten years will be in crowds and sponsorship not media money. Fewer teams the bigger the crowds between the surviving teams.

PS...one good thing is that this has spelled the end of the China junkets

As they say DJ every cloud has a silver lining. The only way that GCS and GWS will be disbanded is if Gil is replaced. Gil would lose too much face if he is in charge. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Swans eh?

Is that the club that used to regularly get 5,000 to their home games (and we're not talking a COVID restricted 5,000) 

The Swans who would've gone out of business in the early 90s if not for the Vic clubs. Who have been propped up for 25 years by the AFL to ensure they never drop out of the finals for too long because they "can't afford to be a poor performer". The Swans who had COLA for years until they [censored] off the AFL by snatching Buddy from under the Giants noses. The Swans who get priority draft picks every year in the form of Academy selections (top 3 picks Heeney and Mills as well as Blakey and that's just in the last few years!)

They've got some cheek.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

42 minutes ago, old dee said:

As they say DJ every cloud has a silver lining. The only way that GCS and GWS will be disbanded is if Gil is replaced. Gil would lose too much face if he is in charge. 

JK has been gunning for the Commissioners for a while.

He'd be happy to see Gil go.

As you know the clubs agreed to the Commission concept when most of them were near broke. The power clubs are well set up now and they see little reason for the socialism practiced by the Commission.

Reducing the number of clubs in Melbourne would be welcomed by SA and WA as they are convinced the competition is Melbourne centric.

BTW Mergers don't necessarily have to be limited to another AFL club. I'd like to see the if there was a business case for a merger between the Storm and ourselves for example.

[Cards13 9,117]

49 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

JK has been gunning for the Commissioners for a while.

He'd be happy to see Gil go.

As you know the clubs agreed to the Commission concept when most of them were near broke. The power clubs are well set up now and they see little reason for the socialism practiced by the Commission.

Reducing the number of clubs in Melbourne would be welcomed by SA and WA as they are convinced the competition is Melbourne centric.

BTW Mergers don't necessarily have to be limited to another AFL club. I'd like to see the if there was a business case for a merger between the Storm and ourselves for example.

Didn’t we do that already, with netball and rugby? I think it’s a great concept, but can you get some kind of cost reductions/revenue increases by doing that? 
Storm

Rebels and?

[monoccular 17,575]

16 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The Hawks IIRC were going to fund around 33% by debt, 33% foundation money (supporters) and 33% government money.

Here's a 2015 article... couldn't find a newer one

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/hawthorn-hawks/hawthorn-plan-to-relocate-to-dingley-debt-free-confident-it-wont-risk-financial-future-ng-397a3ad16c8c4692ff108ddfae5c6af2

DJ.  I am surprised that you are a socialist.  Only socialists talk of government money which is a myth.  It is taxpayer money. 

6 hours ago, drdrake said:

The AFL do need to relocate sides but the concern is players won't stay.  Ideally GWS should be in Canberra, Gold Coast should have been in Tassie however Tassie is the fall back for a failing club, the Bulldogs or North should be in Ballarat.

The AFL banked on the lifestyle in Sydney and Gold coast to keep players at the club.  How long they can keep funding this time will tell.

Geelong is a successful club as they have a hole region of supporters and own stadium.  They also target kids from the Geelong falcons and go after players that have been recruited to other clubs from their region.  Need to replicate this in other large regional areas, Ballarat is ideal 1 hour from Melbourne, existing stadium which can be continued to be developed.

You could also make a case for a club to move to the East, Gippsland way giving them Eastern Ranges and Dandenong Stingrays and you build like Geelong.  You could have Geelong, Ballarat and Pakenham, basically the 100km rim outside Melbourne.

 

Again, taxpayer stadium. 

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,496]

Merge Footscray with St Kilda. Change the black on the saints guernsey to blue or the blue on the dogs jumper to black. Change the bulldog logo to a saint bernard. Simples. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Rab D Nesbitt

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

It's growing... (strange for GWS to be calling for a review)that makes 6 clubs.... only three more required

"Andrew Pridham's call for a comprehensive and independent review of Australian rules football from the structure of the AFL Commission to the game's grass roots has grown legs with club presidents across Australia throwing their support behind the Sydney chairman.

In what is shaping as a test of the strength of the 18 clubs, Richmond, West Coast, Brisbane Lions, and Greater Western Sydney have joined Hawthorn's Jeff Kennett in backing Pridham. The Sydney chairman warned on Friday that the game was in danger of heading in the wrong direction beyond recovery unless it was prepared to undergo objective scrutiny for the first time in 27 years."......

While denying accusations from the AFL that his primary focus was a push to rationalise or relocate clubs, Pridham said the 18-club structure needed to be reviewed and recalled the Swans' historic and ultimately successful decision to leave South Melbourne back in 1982."

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2020-more-club-presidents-back-call-for-independent-review-of-the-afl-20201015-p565fl.html

[Hampton 22 519]

In favour of a review is the lack of transparency associated with AFL operations and decisions. For example, the other day I decided to properly test the widely held theory that tribunal decisions are biased in favour of high profile players. ANB copping 4 matches; Lynch getting a small fine, albeit for a far less serious incident. Ok, I decided, I’ll plot penalties against player rankings. But no, the AFL appears not to publish a list of tribunal findings. To complete the exercise, I’d need to check media reports round by round and compile my own penalty list. How weak is that - a billion dollar plus industry not producing an annual tribunal summary. 

[Roost it far 8,627]

Let’s be honest, Melbourne should merge with North, Gold Coast should head to Tassie and Jeff Kennet should retire 

[Mt. Dee-Maaan 608]

Don't they say the Saints and Dees fanbases are around the South East of Melbourne? Bayside, etc..? I can see a merge potential there, also, what a marriage! Bayside 64/66 FC. Lol. Bulldogs aren''t going anywhere (the 'Western' saves them - a key to a developing region). North are in big trouble for sure. They play for a inner city suburb and have a low fan base. Growing up a League fan, I have seen the pain caused by mergers.. They never work. Even if the clubs win premierships/flags.. They lose their soul. May as well just go down to the VFL/state league to play and keep the identity..

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,880]

Simple solution - just get rid of the bottom 4 teams from this season.

Serously, Jeff Kennett is vulture like.  F@#% off Jeff.

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

11 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Depends if it is Amazon vs Apple vs Netflix bidding for the rights?

faang companies have no interest in paying to telecast a small fry domestic competition

there was a study done not too long ago that showed that the cost of running the two northern franchises was greater than the uplift of the 9th telecast match

but, as others have said, it's all about capturing 'hearts and minds' (and private schools) and converting them to afl supporters over the course of the next couple of generations, not an immediate move to drive viewership, attendance, etc.

afl is playing the long game, at least in theory

[BDA 22,890]

9 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Let’s be honest, Melbourne should merge with North, Gold Coast should head to Tassie and Jeff Kennet should retire 

Why on earth should we merge with North!

North to Tassie and pull the pin on Gold coast. The suns are nothing but a drain. It's rugby league country and yet the titans struggle to attract members and are effectively operated by the NRL commission so what hope an AFL team! Pure folly by the AFL.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

Everything has changed with Covid. 

12 months ago I could see only 1 change and that was 1 of the Suns or North relocating to Tassie. IMO that was still a fair way off 

My biggest concern is that Covid isn't going away and the financial impact on clubs it will have.

Members stayed on board this year, but if it continues into 2021 with fans unable to get to attend matches, clubs will face financial crisis some will not recover from.

I was fortunate enough to attend Amateurs and/or WAFL games every week in 2020. My two boys also managed to get scratch, home and away, finals and development games in.  So we weren't impacted as much as those back in Melbourne/Victoria. 

I noticed a realisation by people/players on return from Covid interuption how much they loved/missed footy. I also noticed a  distinct shift in many towards grass roots footy and an anger towards the AFL, with everything always being about them. Those of us involved in community footy have known about this for years but the awareness grew this year.

The game as we know it is going to change. The TV deals, amount of clubs, how clubs function,  second tier comps is all under review.

I don't believe it's only us, Saints, North and Dogs under the pump. Some of the bigger clubs will also be under massive financial stress, which they can not recover from.

2021 and beyond will be interesting 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Pennant St Dee

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,496]

St Kilda should be relocated to their rightful home. 

[old dee 23,872]

33 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Everything has changed with Covid. 

12 months ago I could see only 1 change and that was 1 of the Suns or North relocating to Tassie. IMO that was still a fair way off 

My biggest concern is that Covid isn't going away and the financial impact on clubs it will have.

Members stayed on board this year, but if it continues into 2021 with fans unable to get to attend matches, clubs will face financial crisis some will not recover from.

I was fortunate enough to attend Amateurs and/or WAFL games every week in 2020. My two boys also managed to get scratch, home and away, finals and development games in.  So we weren't impacted as much as those back in Melbourne/Victoria. 

I noticed a realisation by people/players on return from Covid interuption how much they loved/missed footy. I also noticed a  distinct shift in many towards grass roots footy and an anger towards the AFL, with everything always being about them. Those of us involved in community footy have known about this for years but the awareness grew this year.

The game as we know it is going to change. The TV deals, amount of clubs, how clubs function,  second tier comps is all under review.

I don't believe it's only us, Saints, North and Dogs under the pump. Some of the bigger clubs will also be under massive financial stress, which they can not recover from.

2021 and beyond will be interesting 

Over the next two years IMO it will be vital to remain financially viable, even more important than winning a flag. We are currently not reliant on AFL assistance. We need to stay that way but as you say I can only see a drop in memberships next year. The really bad part is we cannot afford paying out contracts. 

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

10 minutes ago, old dee said:

Over the next two years IMO it will be vital to remain financially viable, even more important than winning a flag. We are currently not reliant on AFL assistance. We need to stay that way but as you say I can only see a drop in memberships next year. The really bad part is we cannot afford paying out contracts. 

Morning Old Dee, hope you are going well and the pending lifting of restrictions has brought a smile.

I agree it is vitally important to remain frugal over the next couple of years till we are post Covid.

I don't think the paying out of a contract will be as big an issue next season as it  would this year. I understand from a good source there are KPI's within the contract.

IMO the most important thing we do onfield is to sign the keys to long term deals and surround them with good foot soldiers. Oliver, Trac, Rivers and Jackson are the ones we need to lock in to 2025/6 moving forward 

I really hope 2021 allows you to get back watching live footy and reinvigorate your love of the game

Edited October 17, 2020 by Pennant St Dee

[sue 9,145]

28 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

St Kilda should be relocated to their rightful home. 

Training will be difficult. There is no flat area there big enough for an oval unless the military base is razed.

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,496]

7 minutes ago, sue said:

Training will be difficult. There is no flat area there big enough for an oval unless the military base is razed.

There's a wee bit of relatively flat land that could be levelled just up from the beach. There'd be no need to turn on the sprinklers the night before a game. 

[The heart beats true 18,145]

22 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The AFL aern’t going to send Clubs to Country towns. 

The expansion Clubs exist entirely for Broadcast reasons. Straight up the East Coast, where the Population lives. 
Games on each weekend 

it’s that simple 

I think you’re right on here SWYL. The TV bank rolls the competition, and it’s as simple as more games = more money. I know some will argue ‘what about when The Suns play Freo’, but it’s easily offset by when The Suns play Collingwood, Richmond, The Eagles, Essendon etc.

This is posturing by Jeff and Co to not have to pay as much into the coffers given their economic forecasts due to the Pandemic.

[old dee 23,872]

39 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Morning Old Dee, hope you are going well and the pending lifting of restrictions has brought a smile.

I agree it is vitally important to remain frugal over the next couple of years till we are post Covid.

I don't think the paying out of a contract will be as big an issue next season as it  would this year. I understand from a good source there are KPI's within the contract.

IMO the most important thing we do onfield is to sign the keys to long term deals and surround them with good foot soldiers. Oliver, Trac, Rivers and Jackson are the ones we need to lock in to 2025/6 moving forward 

I really hope 2021 allows you to get back watching live footy and reinvigorate your love of the game

Until there is an effective vaccine I cannot see crowds being allowed into games in Victoria I.e. if we have any games here. I am in the kill zone of the virus and I am simply not going to big crowd events. Will need a miracle IMO for our lives to return to the old “normal” in 2021. I will just have to be happy with 1 in 3 games on FTA tv. I live in hope that this review / discussions by  the clubs On the AFL produces some changes. It is time for a new  crew at HQ level the old boys club must go. The future needs people who are not wedded to their high  salaries and perks. As an example the number they took to QLD for the finals is ridiculous, half that number should have gone for half the period. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

11 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

but, as others have said, it's all about capturing 'hearts and minds' (and private schools) and converting them to afl supporters over the course of the next couple of generations, not an immediate move to drive viewership, attendance, etc.

If youth participation was a measure of success basketball would be the most popular sport in the country.

Sydney has been in NSW now for nigh on fifty years and the market penetration has not been that great.  

Looking at it from the flipside can you really say that the Storm who has been the most successful team in the NRL for so many years has made major inroads into the average Melbournian's psyche.

Dollar for dollar the northern state expansion clubs don't really stack up.  

BTW the biggest youth sport on the Gold Coast is probably Nippers

Edited October 17, 2020 by Diamond_Jim

[one_demon 826]

The AFL does an excellent job at running the competition. 

[old dee 23,872]

Just now, one_demon said:

The AFL does an excellent job at running the competition. 

Just sprayed my coffee all over the table!

[one_demon 826]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

Just sprayed my coffee all over the table!

Yep.  The AFL is constant fodder for perennial wingers, but it's the the most successful sporting competition in the country.   You don't get that unless it's well run.