On 15/09/2020 at 23:20, Moonshadow said:

Is Tmac really on $700-800k?

Wow 

Yep. He is our no. 1 list management problem.

  On 15/09/2020 at 22:19, Dr.D said:

...

The majority of people that don't post, share my views. They are simply over the mfc and the endless promises of being a ruthless football club. 

Ah yes, the "silent majority"!

  On 15/09/2020 at 23:59, Lord Nev said:

Yep, trade value won't be high, but I think IF he goes it's because he wants to leave not because we want to ship him off.

Not sure about that. If we can move a highly paid under-performing player off the books we’d be fools not to do it. We should be moving him on any which way we can.

  On 16/09/2020 at 02:24, Better days ahead said:

Not sure about that. If we can move a highly paid under-performing player off the books we’d be fools not to do it. We should be moving him on any which way we can.

I'm sure the club won't have to think about it a long time, more talking to who is instigating the move.

  On 15/09/2020 at 09:43, Dr.D said:

So he's crap for a reason?  whatever the reason, injury or otherwise, he is now a very average player. that's not harsh, it's a reality.

Come on Dr.D, you're better than that.

  On 16/09/2020 at 02:34, Stein9193 said:

Come on Dr.D, you're better than that.

No, no he isn’t. 

  On 16/09/2020 at 01:32, Smokey said:

Like you, I could only speculate. Which is why I do not come on here and try to ram my speculation down others throats as if it were fact.. 

Tom Mitchell is down on form this year; do you blame Clarkson for that? 

Tom Mitchell is returning from a broken leg. Melbourne's players aren't.

plus, it's a trend with melbourne. it's not 1 player. it's about 10. When it becomes a trend, it's the coach in my opinion. And with regards to Tom McDonald, I'm convinced he is injured. There's no way someone can be healthy and be that slow

  On 16/09/2020 at 00:46, Siren said:

Melbourne’s current stance is that Tom will not play another game for the MFC and will be traded. 
Obvious with only one game to go, but a lot will need to change for Tom to be on the list next year 

Thanks Siren, succinct and precise intel is always appreciated. Given he has two years to run on his contact and is reportedly on very good dollars, you’d think we’d have to contribute towards his new contract if moved on. Any idea if there’s any clubs interested? 

Edited September 16, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

  On 16/09/2020 at 00:46, Siren said:

Melbourne’s current stance is that Tom will not play another game for the MFC and will be traded. 
Obvious with only one game to go, but a lot will need to change for Tom to be on the list next year 

As per ET, thanks siren. I know people often  like to jump on people that say they have info but I do appreciate getting it. 

cant help being a little nostalgic thinking about tmac. he was a genuine star of the comp in 2018. mature body, super fit, confident.  I had so much hope for at least 4-5 years of more of it.... and a flag. 

we seem to have just a terrible record w key forwards. as a kid Dillon was going to be the one. then greg Parke then Warren Dean, Spalding, schwartz , then Hogan . we’ve been genuinely unlucky at that end of the ground most of my life. A series of great ruckman i might add but v few career long key forwards. 

Edited September 16, 20204 yr by Wells 11

  On 15/09/2020 at 23:20, Moonshadow said:

Is Tmac really on $700-800k?

Wow 

It will certainly be post $600k. He signed at his absolute peak.

Couldn't help but chuckle when I saw his name being thrown around in the Saad trade thread.

No one will take him unless we underwrite a significant chunk of his salary.

Assume some team offers pick 100 and to pay $400k... Do you take it ?

  On 16/09/2020 at 07:45, Wells 11 said:

as a kid Dillon was going to be the one. then greg Parke then Warren Dean, Spalding, schwartz , then Hogan .

You missed Darren Bennett and Jacka,  also one of my favourites that never took off - David Cordner.  Very unlucky indeed.

  On 16/09/2020 at 08:33, grazman said:

You missed Darren Bennett and Jacka,  also one of my favourites that never took off - David Cordner.  Very unlucky indeed.

yes how could i forget jackovich! I wasn’t AS invested in Bennett and Cordner. but none the less good point.

we had Neitz...

Bundle Oscar up with Tommy and ship them off to the highest bidder, might get a 3rd pick if we are lucky. ... combined. 

  On 16/09/2020 at 02:14, jumbo returns said:

So why was he dropped this year by Norf?

NOrth act in form slump desperation. Why on earth would North ever drop Pedersen?

With his salary I'm not sure many clubs would be keen without us contributing a significant portion. We will also be lacking significantly in KPF depth if he goes. We only really have Weideman in that roll at the moment and he is still relatively young and in need of further development.

We then have;

• Jackson - A hybrid ruck/forward with consensus view that he will more likely play as an extra mid more the Key Position.
• Mitch Brown - Ageing journey man that's scraped together some games because of McDonalds form and injury to Jackson. Maybe retained as insurance for another year but quite possibly delisted
• Petty - I high hopes for this kid, looks promising but yet unproven with a year out from a debilitating groin injury. Queries as to whether he plays his footy forward or back.

Does trading Tom improve our list and depth? Factor in his low trade value and likely high wage would have to remove him from the list, I don't think that leaves us in a better position overall. 

We certainly did Tom no favours by playing him as sole Key forward for the first few rounds with no support. I would have liked to see him combine more with Weideman throughout the year but alas not to be.  If we are telling him to pack his bags with two years to go, I wonder what that does to the psyche of the playing group and culture of our club. Perhaps this is where we need to get ruthless to improve our list, but I can't help but feel this path is fraught with danger. In any case, if he does go I would hope that we acquire some Key Position players either through trade or draft as just one or two injuries to our talls would see us light on at either end of the ground. Interesting trade period coming up!

  On 15/09/2020 at 09:47, Wiseblood said:

What about those who have improved?

Steven May has easily been in career best form.

Trac has been in career best form.

Sam Weideman has continued to improve.

Ed Langdon has arrived and continued to improve and be an instrumental part of the side.

Our three picks this year have all come into the side to play senior footy, and all three have looked very good.

Michael Hibberd has also had a terrific year.

I mean, sure, some have had off years, but there are plenty of other examples of improvement.

May arguably yes. Trac no doubt

Weideman. Nope

Langdon? 2x top 5 B&F at Freo. Having a good year but arguably not 'improved'

Hibberd has had much better years 

Don't think you're winning this debate.

 

  On 16/09/2020 at 02:24, Better days ahead said:

Not sure about that. If we can move a highly paid under-performing player off the books we’d be fools not to do it. We should be moving him on any which way we can.

Package him with Oscar

 

 

Please.

  On 16/09/2020 at 10:24, jnrmac said:

May arguably yes. Trac no doubt

Weideman. Nope

Langdon? 2x top 5 B&F at Freo. Having a good year but arguably not 'improved'

Hibberd has had much better years 

Don't think you're winning this debate.

 

Want to go a bit deeper then?

Max Gawn is a two time All Australian and a two time best and fairest winner under Goodwin.  He had an AA under Roos in 2016, but clearly kicked on and continued to develop after he left.

Weideman hasn't developed?  I'd love you to elaborate here.

Both Harmes and Brayshaw have had their best seasons under Goodwin.  I'll readily admit that their shift in playing positions has contributed to average seasons, but I would argue that was more down to where they played as opposed to their development.

Clayton Oliver is a two time best and fairest winner and All Australian under Goodwin, who clearly continued to develop him after taking over from Roos.

You conveniently left off the three rookies from this season as well.

No doubt there are outliers - Tom Mac is one, although his injuries in 2019 have clearly had a massive effect on him - while other players hit patches of bad form or were played out of position.  But to suggest so many players have had their development 'stall' under Goodwin is just plain wrong.

Why just trade away a guy who has kicked 50+? Only a [censored] would do that willy nilly.

  On 15/09/2020 at 23:03, spirit of norm smith said:

May is in career best form ... undeniably. Definitely should be AA this year.  

Back to the Tmac subject. 
 

He is now about to turn 28. He has certainly deteriorated in form and it might be time to offer him up in a trade. He might represent some value for a club looking at depth in a key position back or forward. Unfortunately his $$$ ask might scare some clubs away.  What would we get? Not much I’d imagine.  
 

I hope he has some injury that is preventing from being able more mobile. Let's hope Burgess can work his magic and Tom comes good in 2021. 

Tmac for Hogan

  On 16/09/2020 at 09:56, Nascent said:

With his salary I'm not sure many clubs would be keen without us contributing a significant portion. We will also be lacking significantly in KPF depth if he goes. We only really have Weideman in that roll at the moment and he is still relatively young and in need of further development.

We then have;

• Jackson - A hybrid ruck/forward with consensus view that he will more likely play as an extra mid more the Key Position.
• Mitch Brown - Ageing journey man that's scraped together some games because of McDonalds form and injury to Jackson. Maybe retained as insurance for another year but quite possibly delisted
• Petty - I high hopes for this kid, looks promising but yet unproven with a year out from a debilitating groin injury. Queries as to whether he plays his footy forward or back.

Does trading Tom improve our list and depth? Factor in his low trade value and likely high wage would have to remove him from the list, I don't think that leaves us in a better position overall. 

We certainly did Tom no favours by playing him as sole Key forward for the first few rounds with no support. I would have liked to see him combine more with Weideman throughout the year but alas not to be.  If we are telling him to pack his bags with two years to go, I wonder what that does to the psyche of the playing group and culture of our club. Perhaps this is where we need to get ruthless to improve our list, but I can't help but feel this path is fraught with danger. In any case, if he does go I would hope that we acquire some Key Position players either through trade or draft as just one or two injuries to our talls would see us light on at either end of the ground. Interesting trade period coming up!

You raise some excellent points Nascent. However, he looks finished. Slow and with the turning circle of the QE2. From a list management point of view, if the club thinks he won't get any better,  it is better to offload him now than in three years time. That way we get 700k off the books and have the chance to draft/develop a couple of key position players to replace him. 

It is easy to be sentimental but I would like to see a more ruthless streak to ensure we add depth and talent to our list. These days you can't not perform for two years and command big money. It destroys your list and salary cap.

To me Tom looked the same last year physically, but had a crap year when he was regularly taking the best defender in a team that could barely move the ball. 

This year is different. Absolutely nothing to this other than gut feel and personal experience, but to me Tom has the look of a guy that's been thrown out of kilter a little by having a kid.

The 'heavy' look of his middle/lower body, the general sluggishness, the lack of vibrancy....you could complain about many aspects of Tom's game over the years but you could never question his mental or physical preparation. His one wood. Interrupt that a little ...whether due to lack of sleep, shifting priorities or a dose of age/reality in a year of tremendous challenge for him and his new family...I wouldn't be surprised if it is a factor. 

Ditto Melksham to some degree. 

For all the blokes that claim it transforms their mindset (see Harley), I know personally and from friends that the new dad flat spot is a thing - not in a total inescapable postnatal depression kind of way - but in a 'life has changed and my routine is broken' kind of way.

If so (and who knows really), I wouldn't be surprised if Tom return to some form in a year or two. I would hope that's with us, but let's be honest, for what we are paying and what he delivered he has to carry the can for a decent share of our forward-half challenges since 2018.

  On 16/09/2020 at 10:35, Wiseblood said:

Want to go a bit deeper then?

Max Gawn is a two time All Australian and a two time best and fairest winner under Goodwin.  He had an AA under Roos in 2016, but clearly kicked on and continued to develop after he left.

Weideman hasn't developed?  I'd love you to elaborate here.

Both Harmes and Brayshaw have had their best seasons under Goodwin.  I'll readily admit that their shift in playing positions has contributed to average seasons, but I would argue that was more down to where they played as opposed to their development.

Clayton Oliver is a two time best and fairest winner and All Australian under Goodwin, who clearly continued to develop him after taking over from Roos.

You conveniently left off the three rookies from this season as well.

No doubt there are outliers - Tom Mac is one, although his injuries in 2019 have clearly had a massive effect on him - while other players hit patches of bad form or were played out of position.  But to suggest so many players have had their development 'stall' under Goodwin is just plain wrong.

whether Harmes is played in the wrong position or not is irrelevant. As that falls on Goodwin too. Harmes was one of the best taggers in the afl, getting the ball himself in the process. He was one of our first picked. People forget justhow good he was. His decline is very costly. 

Also, seems like I've got another back up with regards to Weideman. I haven't seen improvement.  I've actually always liked him but I haven't seen anything remotely close to his 2018 finals series. 

Oliver was always destined for greatness. ever since his first practice game in craigieburn.

I don't doubt that a lot of players had career best years in 2018.  Personally i put a lot of it down to the flow on effect from Roos. But if Goodwin gets credit for their 2018 career years then he also must be responsible for their last 2 seasons under that rationale.