Not saying that any D’lander is a hypocrite (God forbid), but in the interests of full disclosure and transparency I think we should all declare, before passing comment on chip, whether we have ever

a)       changed jobs in our life

b)      choose an option which resulted in a greater financial return to us

c)       choose an option which provided us with greater opportunity

I tick all the above.

He gave 7 good years of good service when we were a rabble, (the last year club and player had separated in spirit) and we got pick 3 when he left. Won his medallion at the Hawks and has now taken the option of an extra year at the saints. Are people seriously saying he should forego a years income, at a level that he’ll probably never be able to earn post career.

And another thing, the assumption that a flag at the Hawks has a lesser value than one he would have won at the Dees is bogus. A flag, is a flag, is a flag. Pretty sure Brian Lake wouldn’t swap his 3 peat with the Hawks for a flag at the Dogs.

On 11/26/2020 at 4:52 PM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i think players playing for three or more teams will become more and more the norm

the cachet of being a 'one club player' has completely disappeared in the modern era, with afl player and club mentality finally catching up to where overseas sports have been for 40+ years

For one reason only.... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

4 hours ago, BAMF said:

I get the angst and I agree that his premiership medallions aren't worth as much as others.

Yeah, he was at the highest level and should have got the best out of himself no matter what the scenario was.

But think about how poorly the club was being run.

Our priorities:

Losing games. High draft picks. Arguing with suppliers about the colour red. Blazers. Complicated logos. The presidents health. Whiteboards. 

At the time I was really disappointed with how Chip left the club. In hindsight I think it was a fantastic decision for him and don't begrudge him a single thing.

The Club is bigger than the individual player and Frawley decided he did not accept that Group value. That does not go well for the man then or now.. Dollars speak bigger values for Frawley.. If you do not believe me just go to the Saints web site ( after he "retired" and signed with St Kilda.....and read the BS he told their supporters... ) One could ask from those comments  if he thought so much of St kilda now why did he go to Hawthorn...  Oh, yeah, to get away from the "mismanaged Melbourne"  -  BS it was for fame and fortune.....at Hawthorn.. I have no time for this type of player who shows no Club loyalty... and I totally disagree with the excuses made in the post above. Facts are Facts...

16 minutes ago, Ohio USA - David said:

The Club is bigger than the individual player and Frawley decided he did not accept that Group value. That does not go well for the man then or now.. Dollars speak bigger values for Frawley.. If you do not believe me just go to the Saints web site ( after he "retired" and signed with St Kilda.....and read the BS he told their supporters... ) One could ask from those comments  if he thought so much of St kilda now why did he go to Hawthorn...  Oh, yeah, to get away from the "mismanaged Melbourne"  -  BS it was for fame and fortune.....at Hawthorn.. I have no time for this type of player who shows no Club loyalty... and I totally disagree with the excuses made in the post above. Facts are Facts...

Are you in one of the States where weed is legal?

1 hour ago, Ohio USA - David said:

For one reason only.... $$$

What about the opportunity to play finals and win a flag, David?  Surely that would be an incentive to switch clubs if you've spent years playing for a lowly team.

53 minutes ago, Ohio USA - David said:

I have no time for this type of player who shows no Club loyalty.

You must really dislike May, Lever, Hibberd and Langdon, then.  It works both ways, you realise.

1 hour ago, Ohio USA - David said:

For one reason only.... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

yeah, it's called a career

2 hours ago, demonstone said:

You must really dislike May, Lever, Hibberd and Langdon, then.  It works both ways, you realise.

nah ds, it's one of those things that only work one way

not everything has to be scientifically logical

why else would we all be here spreading our passion on 'land when nothing much is coming the other way

4 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

The Club is bigger than the individual player and Frawley decided he did not accept that Group value. That does not go well for the man then or now.. Dollars speak bigger values for Frawley.. If you do not believe me just go to the Saints web site ( after he "retired" and signed with St Kilda.....and read the BS he told their supporters... ) One could ask from those comments  if he thought so much of St kilda now why did he go to Hawthorn...  Oh, yeah, to get away from the "mismanaged Melbourne"  -  BS it was for fame and fortune.....at Hawthorn.. I have no time for this type of player who shows no Club loyalty... and I totally disagree with the excuses made in the post above. Facts are Facts...

Of course, if you're living in Ohio, you're in the land that has alternative facts.

9 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Of course, if you're living in Ohio, you're in the land that has alternative facts.

More so perpetually on the move

In a red phone box

6 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

For one reason only.... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Obviously you don't believe that a player should have more important responsibilities in his life beyond the team... how dare he accept a position doing what he loves (playing footy) while at the same time putting his future in a much more secure position!

I sure hope that you never accepted a pay rise, or left one company to work for another that was offering better remuneration, conditions and a real shot at success; I'd hate to think you were a hypocrite. 

Edited November 28, 20204 yr by hardtack

7 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

And another thing, the assumption that a flag at the Hawks has a lesser value than one he would have won at the Dees is bogus. A flag, is a flag, is a flag. Pretty sure Brian Lake wouldn’t swap his 3 peat with the Hawks for a flag at the Dogs.

I don't necessarily agree on this...

Whilst I'm sure his flag at the Hawks fills him with pride.

If he had won one with the Dees after going through the hard times with mates he started out with it would have just that little bit more value not the Hawks one of lesser value.

...but as you say, a flag is a flag and as I say, they're hard to come by...good luck to him.

I don't understand all this 'passion' about James Frawley. He walked, as every employee is entitled to. Good riddance, have a good life, James. 

I also understand that what galls is that he played good footy as a Demon, then played rather ordinary football - the lack of a tackle against the Bulldogs - and in the end, that's life. Sailor Vee, as they say in the navy.

Good luck chip, he never retired, the Hawks officially delisted him.

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I don't necessarily agree on this...

Whilst I'm sure his flag at the Hawks fills him with pride.

If he had won one with the Dees after going through the hard times with mates he started out with it would have just that little bit more value not the Hawks one of lesser value.

...but as you say, a flag is a flag and as I say, they're hard to come by...good luck to him.

Nah a flag is a flag. I left one club where I played in a flag, to another where I won back to back. All three are as good as each other

I think the dichotomy of the current AFL being a BIG business that requires monetary decisions to be made but or the feeling of fans for the idea that it's about 'bleeding for the jumper' is very much at play here.

If you see the AFL as a business then what the clubs and players do in their decision making is just that, a business decision. Not a lot of room for romanticism.

If you see the AFL as being the old school tribalism that requires club loyalty and moves and trades eliciting an emotional response or betrayal then yeah, I can see how people would get [censored] at players for leaving and such.

I kind of swing between the two but find trying to fit them both in to be a case of cognitive dissonance.

8 hours ago, hardtack said:

Obviously you don't believe that a player should have more important responsibilities in his life beyond the team... how dare he accept a position doing what he loves (playing footy) while at the same time putting his future in a much more secure position!

I sure hope that you never accepted a pay rise, or left one company to work for another that was offering better remuneration, conditions and a real shot at success; I'd hate to think you were a hypocrite. 

I believe that playing a Team sport is different  at the AFL  sporting level and is quite different than a "day job" in some ways that you and I enjoy. These players are on performance contracts and that contract encompasses a Team attitude to win ultimate glory - a Premiership flag for The Team and its members. There is little loyalty in a Club these days......Should a player leave a Team for another Club then he does it selfishly for money and other glory and not for the spirit of the Team he left behind. Just read the St Kilda Web site where Frawley speaks of how lovely it is to be at St Kilda and his reasoning...  Wipe away the BS and you begin to see it is for money $$$  There is no loyalty to The Team.. You can disagree with me all you like  but I am entitled to my own opinion.

 

4 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

I believe that playing a Team sport is different  at the AFL  sporting level and is quite different than a "day job" in some ways that you and I enjoy. These players are on performance contracts and that contract encompasses a Team attitude to win ultimate glory - a Premiership flag for The Team and its members. There is little loyalty in a Club these days......Should a player leave a Team for another Club then he does it selfishly for money and other glory and not for the spirit of the Team he left behind. Just read the St Kilda Web site where Frawley speaks of how lovely it is to be at St Kilda and his reasoning...  Wipe away the BS and you begin to see it is for money $$$  There is no loyalty to The Team.. You can disagree with me all you like  but I am entitled to my own opinion.

 

But it’s a 2 way street Ohio. Collingwood showed no loyalty to Treloar and Stephenson so you can’t blame players for making decisions that are in their best interests.

Loyalty left the building when the AFL went professional. Perhaps revert back to the amateur status, take all that TV money and distribute it to clubs and grassroots to spend on facilities and junior coaching. Players play for the teams in the postcodes where they were born. It’s the model used in Gaelic Games in Ireland. You play for the county team you were born into. No transfers. It’ll never happen, too much money involved, but it’s the only way to ensure genuine loyalty to the Guernsey.

18 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

But it’s a 2 way street Ohio. Collingwood showed no loyalty to Treloar and Stephenson so you can’t blame players for making decisions that are in their best interests.

Loyalty left the building when the AFL went professional. Perhaps revert back to the amateur status, take all that TV money and distribute it to clubs and grassroots to spend on facilities and junior coaching. Players play for the teams in the postcodes where they were born. It’s the model used in Gaelic Games in Ireland. You play for the county team you were born into. No transfers. It’ll never happen, too much money involved, but it’s the only way to ensure genuine loyalty to the Guernsey.

Treloar and Stephenson were on Contracts as distinct from Frawley at Hawthorn where he chose to retire. Treloar had no reason to leave he could have stayed there and ran out his Contract.

Frawley on the other hand left Melbourne at the end of his contract and chose to retire from Hawthorn as I said then he writes this bizarre piece on the St Kilda Web site that makes him  out to be such a fallen soldier. A martyr for the Club and how he just loves being at the Club that his cousin Danny played for...  What he should have said to St Kilda fans is that " I am here for the money and if you think you can get an extra year out of me then fine... I will still take the money but I have no loyalty to the Club despite what I just said ...." I stand by my comments and please respect my point that I too have views - it is not a one way web site here. People have opposite views - so be it.

On 10/8/2020 at 11:24 PM, Cheesy D. Pun said:

You can't blame anyone for leaving in that era. The club was a complete and utter shambles.

Many potentially great young players had their careers ruined by incompetence - he didn't want to be one of them.

Think you might be giving "shambles" a bad wrap CDP. The Filth and Norff are an example "shambles" this year. We were the dictionary definition of diabolical ineptitude bordering on the criminally insane. 

4 minutes ago, Ohio USA - David said:

Treloar and Stephenson were on Contracts as distinct from Frawley at Hawthorn where he chose to retire. Treloar had no reason to leave he could have stayed there and ran out his Contract.

Frawley on the other hand left Melbourne at the end of his contract and chose to retire from Hawthorn as I said then he writes this bizarre piece on the St Kilda Web site that makes him  out to be such a fallen soldier. A martyr for the Club and how he just loves being at the Club that his cousin Danny played for...  What he should have said to St Kilda fans is that " I am here for the money and if you think you can get an extra year out of me then fine... I will still take the money but I have no loyalty to the Club despite what I just said ...." I stand by my comments and please respect my point that I too have views - it is not a one way web site here. People have opposite views - so be it.

I respect your point of view Ohio. Your opinion is just as valid as mine.  If a player can do a job and perform the club will retain them and as long as the player believes the team can win a flag they'll stay. If the interests of club and player align, happy days, if not then a parting of the ways occurs. Loyalty plays little part in it imv.

5 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

We were the dictionary definition of diabolical ineptitude bordering on the criminally insane.

I think that’s an understatement QD ?

7 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

I believe that playing a Team sport is different  at the AFL  sporting level and is quite different than a "day job" in some ways that you and I enjoy. These players are on performance contracts and that contract encompasses a Team attitude to win ultimate glory - a Premiership flag for The Team and its members. There is little loyalty in a Club these days......Should a player leave a Team for another Club then he does it selfishly for money and other glory and not for the spirit of the Team he left behind. Just read the St Kilda Web site where Frawley speaks of how lovely it is to be at St Kilda and his reasoning...  Wipe away the BS and you begin to see it is for money $$$  There is no loyalty to The Team.. You can disagree with me all you like  but I am entitled to my own opinion.

Yes, of course you're entitled to your own opinion, no one is denying that.  However, for AFL footballers these days, football IS a day job and as such they have the right to seek better conditions, better wages, and better opportunities for their advancement elsewhere, as soon as their contract has run its term.  

Gone are the days of footballers who held day jobs and played as part of a team on the weekends with a couple of evening practices a week.  These days AFL is a business, a very big business, and loyalty is a rarity.  Clubs move out players regardless of whether they have a contract or not just so they can free up salary cap space in order to attract the big names with big dollars and to attract big name sponsors with equally big cheque books - it's a two way street (give loyalty to get loyalty). 

If you want to apportion the blame, then I suggest you first look at the clubs who are offering the big money... as I have said in previous posts, the players are, rightfully, looking to secure their own (and their family's) futures and it is the clubs that are enabling that by making offers they can't refuse.  Their life as footballers with an opportunity to use their talents to make a good living is very limited unless they are one of the handful that have what it takes to move into the media post footy.

8 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

I believe that playing a Team sport is different  at the AFL  sporting level and is quite different than a "day job" in some ways that you and I enjoy. These players are on performance contracts and that contract encompasses a Team attitude to win ultimate glory - a Premiership flag for The Team and its members. There is little loyalty in a Club these days......Should a player leave a Team for another Club then he does it selfishly for money and other glory and not for the spirit of the Team he left behind. Just read the St Kilda Web site where Frawley speaks of how lovely it is to be at St Kilda and his reasoning...  Wipe away the BS and you begin to see it is for money $$$  There is no loyalty to The Team.. You can disagree with me all you like  but I am entitled to my own opinion.

 

frankly I think you are taking the pi.. Football Clubs do not give out contracts for the life of a players career. Players and Club typically commit for three years. That is the extent of each parties loyalty to each other. I think you are confused with amateur, social footy or underage stuff played with your mates. AFL mateship is mostly BS.