Goodwins job is on the line. he's going to recruit to play finals in 2021 to save his own skin. 

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:02, Patches O’houlihan said:

Goodwins job is on the line. he's going to recruit to play finals in 2021 to save his own skin. 

Well he should be recruiting to play finals in 2021.

I'd be more concerned if a) he wasn't trying to play finals in 2021 and/or b) we were going to the draft this year with a view to rebuilding for 2025.

What are you expecting him to be aiming for?

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:04, deanox said:

Well he should be recruiting to play finals in 2021.

I'd be more concerned if a) he wasn't trying to play finals in 2021 and/or b) we were going to the draft this year with a view to rebuilding for 2025.

What are you expecting him to be aiming for?

Obviously a balance of short term and long term, but the point i am trying to make, is he's obviously going to favour the short term over long term, with a view to saving his job. 

I fully expect the 2021 first round pick to be moved for the same reason. 

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:08, Patches O’houlihan said:

Obviously a balance of short term and long term, but the point i am trying to make, is he's obviously going to favour the short term over long term, with a view to saving his job. 

I fully expect the 2021 first round pick to be moved for the same reason. 

Again. Why wouldn't that be the goal?

We have a publicly stated aim of finals and a premiership in the next 3 years.

We have Hibberd and Jetta aged 31, Melksham, Gawn and May aged 29. (We spent up on May for the purpose of finals)

We have a core of players between 23 and 27, including 11 who will have played 100 games next year. It includes 3 of the better mids in the comp.

 

Why wouldn't we be planning for finals next year?

 

Do you really think he should reduce our chance of finals in the next 2-3 years in order to be more competitive in 5 years?

 

His job IS to make finals the next couple of years and win a flag. Not to set us up for 2026.

 

Edited October 13, 20204 yr by deanox

  On 13/10/2020 at 07:42, old dee said:

That is what I thought about Lewis and we ended up getting 2 good years and a reasonable third year. 

True, but Lewis didn’t have speed as a main asset, if Smith loses his speed then he becomes a HFF? and once again we don’t have a winger. 
personally I’d be hoping Baker comes along.

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:02, Patches O’houlihan said:

Goodwins job is on the line. he's going to recruit to play finals in 2021 to save his own skin. 

Unless you're up the creek without a paddle, you should always be recruiting to play finals.

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:08, Patches O’houlihan said:

Obviously a balance of short term and long term, but the point i am trying to make, is he's obviously going to favour the short term over long term, with a view to saving his job. 

I fully expect the 2021 first round pick to be moved for the same reason. 

Any mail on this in particular Patches?  I don't mind the idea of moving on next years first for an aggressive push towards finals. This is all within reason of course with a quality player or early 2020 pick coming in. In my opinion we should be courting Merrett with offers now and throw out our future first out there + extras to get Essendon thinking. It won't happen of course but we will be laying the foundations for a hard play for him as a free agent next year.

As others have said our time is now, we have enough talent on our list and if we're successful in getting to finals and grand finals repetitively then we'll be an attractive free agency option.  We have plenty of talent on our list that will net us first round selections should we choose to go back to the draft as well.

hawks' mate tells me that they apparently don't offer anything more than two years to any player who is over 30 years old

he thinks they're nuts - reckons smith is easily still in their best handful of players and given his skillset they should fight tooth and nail to keep him

Confirmed by his manager Michael Pickering that Melbourne are talking to him about Isaac Smith and that we are definitely in the mix

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by DeeZee

  On 13/10/2020 at 23:08, whatwhatsaywhat said:

hawks' mate tells me that they apparently don't offer anything more than two years to any player who is over 30 years old

he thinks they're nuts - reckons smith is easily still in their best handful of players and given his skillset they should fight tooth and nail to keep him

Actually they don't offer more than one. Shows how keen they are to keep him by going away from that.

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:16, deanox said:

Again. Why wouldn't that be the goal?

We have a publicly stated aim of finals and a premiership in the next 3 years.

We have Hibberd and Jetta aged 31, Melksham, Gawn and May aged 29. (We spent up on May for the purpose of finals)

We have a core of players between 23 and 27, including 11 who will have played 100 games next year. It includes 3 of the better mids in the comp.

 

Why wouldn't we be planning for finals next year?

 

Do you really think he should reduce our chance of finals in the next 2-3 years in order to be more competitive in 5 years?

 

His job IS to make finals the next couple of years and win a flag. Not to set us up for 2026.

 

I think we're saying the same thing. he's gone if we don't make finals in 2021 so of course he's not going to care about 22,23 and 24 anywhere near as much. 

 

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:02, Patches O’houlihan said:

Goodwins job is on the line. he's going to recruit to play finals in 2021 to save his own skin. 

 

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:04, deanox said:

Well he should be recruiting to play finals in 2021.

I'd be more concerned if a) he wasn't trying to play finals in 2021 and/or b) we were going to the draft this year with a view to rebuilding for 2025.

What are you expecting him to be aiming for?

 

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:08, Patches O’houlihan said:

Obviously a balance of short term and long term, but the point i am trying to make, is he's obviously going to favour the short term over long term, with a view to saving his job. 

I fully expect the 2021 first round pick to be moved for the same reason. 

We need a strong showing in 2021 and finals of itself won't be a pass mark.

Top 4 is probably it, personally it's GF for me.

I've read a lot of the posts and my initial thoughts were 3 years is too much.

..but my thinking has been swayed by the arguments that he doesn't cost us anything but probably a list spot in his 3rd year.

I don't think that's a lot to pay for a shot at a premiership.

We get 1 or 2 good years then he's a bargain...

  On 14/10/2020 at 01:08, Patches O’houlihan said:

I think we're saying the same thing. he's gone if we don't make finals in 2021 so of course he's not going to care about 22,23 and 24 anywhere near as much. 

 

I think we are saying the same thing but imo it is the tone/connotation which are different.

You seemed to imply derisively that he was choosing short term success for a selfish reason and that it is not the best decision for the club.

I disagree and think that you are playing both sides: if he trades/drafts for finals you will say it "was to save himself" but if doesn't make finals you'll be one of the first to say he needs to be sacked. Am I correct?

 

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by deanox

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:02, Patches O’houlihan said:

Goodwins job is on the line. he's going to recruit to play finals in 2021 to save his own skin. 

I think you've got a warped view. Goodwin is going to recruit to play finals in 2021 because he wants success not to save his job.  He will ultimately stand or fall on whether he leads us to flag success. 

There's no job retention incentive for him, if he ultimately doesn't deliver flag success then he'll have job security as a well paid assistant coach elsewhere.

You either believe we're in the flag window in which case recruit accordingly or you don't which means draft.  Don't get caught half way between.

We've shown balance - we effectively drafted in 2019 and 2020 and brought in Langdon and Tomlinson.  IMO it's fine to concentrate on mature players now to fill in the missing elements.

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by Pollyanna

  On 14/10/2020 at 01:17, rjay said:

 

 

...

I've read a lot of the posts and my initial thoughts were 3 years is too much.

..but my thinking has been swayed by the arguments that he doesn't cost us anything but probably a list spot in his 3rd year.

I don't think that's a lot to pay for a shot at a premiership.

We get 1 or 2 good years then he's a bargain...

Agree with this. You can get players through the draft, through trading or FA.

Draft probably represents best chance of value: could get a bargain, but its riskier and takes time to develop.

Trading is the lowest risk but there are limited resources we can use on trading and it is the most expensive (players are developed so more confidence in what you are getting).

FA allows you to get good players for no resource (other than cap and list space, which we need to use and fill up anyway). In our situation plugging a few gaps for 2-3 years while developing younger players from the draft allows us to accelerate our improvement short term.

  On 14/10/2020 at 01:17, rjay said:

 

 

We need a strong showing in 2021 and finals of itself won't be a pass mark.

Top 4 is probably it, personally it's GF for me.

I've read a lot of the posts and my initial thoughts were 3 years is too much.

..but my thinking has been swayed by the arguments that he doesn't cost us anything but probably a list spot in his 3rd year.

I don't think that's a lot to pay for a shot at a premiership.

We get 1 or 2 good years then he's a bargain...

He brings a heap of experience and probably will be a on field coach which we seem to need

  On 13/10/2020 at 08:02, Patches O’houlihan said:

Goodwins job is on the line. he's going to recruit to play finals in 2021 to save his own skin. 

This is a silly argument.

That's exactly what Goodwin should be doing. Our list is in "challenge now" mode. Gawn's at his peak. Our core list is coming into its peak. If the opportunity arises to bring a player in that will deliver a flag in the next 1-3 years, we should be exploring that option, not shying away from it because we're worried about what our list might look like in 2024.

  On 14/10/2020 at 03:36, titan_uranus said:

This is a silly argument.

That's exactly what Goodwin should be doing. Our list is in "challenge now" mode. Gawn's at his peak. Our core list is coming into its peak. If the opportunity arises to bring a player in that will deliver a flag in the next 1-3 years, we should be exploring that option, not shying away from it because we're worried about what our list might look like in 2024.

That's exactly the point i am making Titan, though i think ever senior coach does have a responsibility to keep one eye on the future, but Goodwins situation in unique in that it'd be silly for him to do so, i'm mostly referring to the option to trade our 2021 first round pick. 

 

  On 14/10/2020 at 03:48, Patches O’houlihan said:

That's exactly the point i am making Titan, though i think ever senior coach does have a responsibility to keep one eye on the future, but Goodwins situation in unique in that it'd be silly for him to do so, i'm mostly referring to the option to trade our 2021 first round pick. 

 

I would be totally fine with us trading our 2021 1st round pick if it brings a quality player that will take us closer to a flag over the next 3 years.  We have effectively used 1st rounders in 2019 Jackson and 2020 Pickett.

  On 14/10/2020 at 04:57, Pollyanna said:

I would be totally fine with us trading our 2021 1st round pick if it brings a quality player that will take us closer to a flag over the next 3 years.  We have effectively used 1st rounders in 2019 Jackson and 2020 Pickett.

Me too, but based on Goodwins position he'd be silly not to fully explore that option to make sure 2021 is better. i don't think he has the luxury of forward thinking at this point, he needs to load up. 

so there is no way we aren't going to explore options like Issac Smith and others.

We are just waiting on Smith to decide now , stay at Hawthorn or come across to us.

I will support Smith getting 3 years if that’s what it takes to get him across. I suggest money wont be high. He will clearly be in our best 18 next year. I would suggest unlikely being we don’t really have up and coming outside quality that it would be unlikely he is not in our best 22 year 2. With a smaller coaching fraternity having him on list at Casey even at year 3 and even back half of year two to develop our outside talent as the last player on your list would not be a bad spend still. He is of good character, a successful environment and as others have mentioned came to AFL late and is a type of player and body type that are durable to an older age. 

 

  On 14/10/2020 at 08:16, big_red_fire_engine said:

I will support Smith getting 3 years if that’s what it takes to get him across. I suggest money wont be high. He will clearly be in our best 18 next year. I would suggest unlikely being we don’t really have up and coming outside quality that it would be unlikely he is not in our best 22 year 2. With a smaller coaching fraternity having him on list at Casey even at year 3 and even back half of year two to develop our outside talent as the last player on your list would not be a bad spend still. He is of good character, a successful environment and as others have mentioned came to AFL late and is a type of player and body type that are durable to an older age. 

 

Dare say we would have spoken to Ooze about him as well.

He is turning 32 in a few months, even a 2 year contract is a stretch.

  On 12/10/2020 at 12:14, Ethan Tremblay said:

Another no-brainer. Played his first AFL game at 22, comes from a successful club and fills a need for us. For the posters who are against this, I’d like to know what their realistic answer is for our ‘wing’ issue? 

here's a whole thread on it xx