Jump to content

Caroline Wilson on MFC rumblings

Hogan2014
Hogan2014
in Melbourne Demons

Featured Replies

  On 17/09/2020 at 05:18, Pennant St Dee said:

You didn't and couldn't have, because they haven't and won't release their 2020 assessments until the season is over.

You again as always were being selective. Only problem was you didn't get your years correct

They release the list assessment before each season.

2020 list ratings

 

  • Quote
    •  

    Champion Data list ratings are based on rolling 40 game average so tend to be up to two seasons behind

    Hence why Kangas were rated far more highly than they deserved to be in reality

  • Quote
    • Like 2
      On 11/09/2020 at 08:22, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

    Spot on

    She clearly has only a small pool of sources,  most of whom appear to have an axe to grind

    She has become the mouthpiece of those wanting to air dirty laundry because they can't get their own way through decent channels 

    Sheeeit sounds like some of her sources come from Demonland LOL!

  • Quote
    • Haha 2
     
      On 17/09/2020 at 03:08, Lord Nev said:

    Been widely panned this year, not totally sure I agree with this mate. How much more pressure do you think can possibly come onto a coach? Reckon game plan is a fair part of that.

    I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened.

     

      On 17/09/2020 at 03:08, Lord Nev said:

    Rated no 1 in 2019 (Champion Data)

    Rated no 9 in 2020

    Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder.

     

      On 17/09/2020 at 03:08, Lord Nev said:

    Don't remember Pickett and Spargo? Or Fritsch being "late to training"? Also, apparently the officials in Cairns had a bit to say about how much the Dees sooked while up there.

    Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one.  The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything  we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't.

     

      On 17/09/2020 at 03:08, Lord Nev said:

    Do you legitimately believe that's due solely to the performance of Goodwin and Mahoney? Injuries weren't a factor?

    Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt.

     

      On 17/09/2020 at 03:08, Lord Nev said:

    Why not? Assistant coaches at other clubs would have looked on in horror at Mahoney's review and changes mid-season. If he's gone and we get a highly rated quality person in of course that impacts the situation positively.

    Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. 

     

      On 17/09/2020 at 03:08, Lord Nev said:

    There's always next year hey.... The eternal cry of us long suffering Dees supporters.

    I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

  • Quote
    • Like 10
      On 17/09/2020 at 07:20, DeeSpencer said:

     

    Fair enough mate. We might not agree on it all but appreciate your well reasoned response.

    Personally I think Mahoney and Goodwin are a bit TOO joined at the moment and could be part of the reason Mahoney is not with us next year should that eventuate.

    (Also, just didn't want to take up the whole page with quoting your full post)

    Cheers!

  • Quote
    • Like 1

      On 17/09/2020 at 07:24, Lord Nev said:

    Fair enough mate. We might not agree on it all but appreciate your well reasoned response.

    Personally I think Mahoney and Goodwin are a bit TOO joined at the moment and could be part of the reason Mahoney is not with us next year should that eventuate.

    (Also, just didn't want to take up the whole page with quoting your full post)

    Cheers!

    this for me is why he's gotta go at the end of the season

  • Quote
      On 17/09/2020 at 05:04, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

    I'm unclear on the basis for these two bolded statements. If they're from Caroline Wilson's article, I'm not convinced that her opinion should automatically be accepted as fact.

    Keen to see the answer to this “fact” as well. 

  • Quote
      On 17/09/2020 at 07:20, DeeSpencer said:

    I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened.

     

    Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder.

     

    Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one.  The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything  we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't.

     

    Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt.

     

    Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. 

     

    I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

    Re your last comment above I think there is little to no chance that they will not be at the club in 2021. Financially we cannot afford to move them.  

  • Quote
    •  
      On 17/09/2020 at 05:22, Lord Nev said:

    They release the list assessment before each season.

    2020 list ratings

     

    And as I said it's not based on the 2020 season 

    So again don't use it as a basis to say we haven't improved in 2020

    Edited by Pennant St Dee

  • Quote
    • Like 3
    • Haha 1
      On 17/09/2020 at 07:20, DeeSpencer said:

    I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened.

     

    Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder.

     

    Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one.  The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything  we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't.

     

    Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt.

     

    Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. 

     

    I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

    I think you've argued this well 'Dee' and backed it up with solid logic.

    As much as the defeats really p... me off, there have been changes made to the game and we are still building the list.

    ...and I know others don't like it but the fixture hasn't helped us.

    The one are I get really angry with Goodwin is on selection, some decisions defy logic.

    ...as an aside, I did love seeing him emotionally involved in the game on the weekend rather than his boring poker face look.

    I hope we see a lot more of it.

  • Quote
    • Like 6

      On 17/09/2020 at 12:49, Pennant St Dee said:

    And as I said it's not based on the 2020 season 

    So again don't use it as a basis to say we haven't improved in 2020

    It's a rating not a prediction of the future.

    Shouldn't be so hard to understand really.

  • Quote
      On 17/09/2020 at 05:27, whatwhatsaywhat said:

    Champion Data list ratings are based on rolling 40 game average so tend to be up to two seasons behind

    Hence why Kangas were rated far more highly than they deserved to be in reality

    Shows why many take champion data with a large grain of salt

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    Champion Data is just statistics. It's not always going to represent the reality of what happens, as there are variables they can't account for.

    However, they rate our list 9th and we're currently 9th on the ladder... so it's fairly accurate! ?

  • Quote
    • Like 3

    Statistics: 60% of the time they're right every time

    (according to the anchorman)

  • Quote
      On 18/09/2020 at 01:35, Moonshadow said:

    Statistics: 60% of the time they're right every time

    (according to the anchorman)

    And about 10% of the time people can't even say stastistics...stastitics...statistics properly, so say "data" instead.

  • Quote
    • Like 2

      On 17/09/2020 at 14:24, Lord Nev said:

    It's a rating not a prediction of the future.

    Shouldn't be so hard to understand really.

    So they are predicting we haven't improved.

    I'll leave it there I understand footy and football clubs. 

    You just continue pedalling out rumours of unrest etc and big noting yourself 

  • Quote
    • Like 3
    • Love 3
    • Haha 2
      On 18/09/2020 at 02:09, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

    And about 10% of the time people can't even say stastistics...stastitics...statistics properly, so say "data" instead.

    Is it true that the word statistics is banned in Spain?

  • Quote
    • Haha 3
      On 17/09/2020 at 08:57, old dee said:

    Re your last comment above I think there is little to no chance that they will not be at the club in 2021. Financially we cannot afford to move them.  

    What information is the 'we cannot afford to' opinion based on?

    Actual finance? What is our current cash status? 

    Cost? What are the basic terma of the payout?

     

     

     

     

  • Quote
      On 18/09/2020 at 03:33, Pennant St Dee said:

    So they are predicting we haven't improved.

    I'll leave it there I understand footy and football clubs. 

    You just continue pedalling out rumours of unrest etc and big noting yourself 

    You're confused with things that are statistical ratings and things that are predictions.

    Continue with your potshots if you wish. I'll just chat footy with the grown ups.

  • Quote
    • Haha 3
      On 18/09/2020 at 04:28, Lord Nev said:

    You're confused with things that are statistical ratings and things that are predictions.

    Continue with your potshots if you wish. I'll just chat footy with the grown ups.

    They are not necessarily  mutually exclusive entities. 

    Statistical information is used as a basis for predictions.

     

  • Quote
    • Like 1

      On 18/09/2020 at 03:52, Unleash Hell said:

    What information is the 'we cannot afford to' opinion based on?

    Actual finance? What is our current cash status? 

    Cost? What are the basic terma of the payout?

     

     

     

     

    Goodwins contract is said to be $750k PA. Mahoneys is probably multi 6 figures. Let’s be conservative and say collectively they are being paid $1million PA. So $2 miillion for the next two years if they are sacked early I.e. next month. The AFL has made a number of comments about them not helping to pay sacked coaches salaries. So the $2 million falls to the MFC we are too small and have too little resources to cover that pay out as well as pay a replacement that at the least would cost Another $500k PA. And $300k for the Mahoney replacement. Conservatively the cost to the MFC To sack both would be $3.6 million Over the next two years and as high as $2.8 million in 2021. It simply is not going to happen this year. 

  • Quote
      On 18/09/2020 at 06:13, old dee said:

    Goodwins contract is said to be $750k PA. Mahoneys is probably multi 6 figures. Let’s be conservative and say collectively they are being paid $1million PA. So $2 miillion for the next two years if they are sacked early I.e. next month. The AFL has made a number of comments about them not helping to pay sacked coaches salaries. So the $2 million falls to the MFC we are too small and have too little resources to cover that pay out as well as pay a replacement that at the least would cost Another $500k PA. And $300k for the Mahoney replacement. Conservatively the cost to the MFC To sack both would be $3.6 million Over the next two years and as high as $2.8 million in 2021. It simply is not going to happen this year. 

    There is a good chance Mahoney is out of contract this year, at least I hope so.

  • Quote
    • Like 1
     
      On 18/09/2020 at 06:13, old dee said:

    Goodwins contract is said to be $750k PA. Mahoneys is probably multi 6 figures. Let’s be conservative and say collectively they are being paid $1million PA. So $2 miillion for the next two years if they are sacked early I.e. next month. The AFL has made a number of comments about them not helping to pay sacked coaches salaries. So the $2 million falls to the MFC we are too small and have too little resources to cover that pay out as well as pay a replacement that at the least would cost Another $500k PA. And $300k for the Mahoney replacement. Conservatively the cost to the MFC To sack both would be $3.6 million Over the next two years and as high as $2.8 million in 2021. It simply is not going to happen this year. 

    That's actually not a bad estimate but you haven't answered my question.

    How do you know we cant afford it?

  • Quote
      On 18/09/2020 at 08:22, Unleash Hell said:

    That's actually not a bad estimate but you haven't answered my question.

    How do you know we cant afford it?

    I’d say zero clubs could afford it in the current climate. No one knows what the Covid future holds for us let alone sporting entities where clubs in Aust are generally not billionaire owed like the US or UK. Even being billionaire owned most sports entities world wide are contracting, non playing  staff wise dramatically/looking to reduce as much cost from the business as possible.

  • Quote

    • Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
    Reply to this topic...
    Go to topic listing

    Featured Content

    • PREVIEW: Brisbane

      And just like that, we’re Narrm again. Even though the annual AFL Sir Doug Nicholls Round which commemorates the contributions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture to our game has been a welcome addition to our calendar for ten years, more lately it has been a portent of tough times ahead for we beleaguered Narrm supporters. Ever since the club broke through for its historic 2021 premiership, this has become a troubling time of the year for the club. For example, it all began when Melbourne rebranded itself as Narrm across the two rounds of the Sir Doug Nicholls Round to become the first club to adopt an Indigenous club name especially for the occasion. It won its first outing under the brand against lowly North Melbourne to go to 10 wins and no losses but not without a struggle or a major injury to  star winger Ed Langdon who broke his ribs and missed several weeks. In the following week, still as Narrm, the team’s 17 game winning streak came to an end at the hands of the Dockers. That came along with more injuries, a plague that remained with them for the remainder of the season until, beset by injuries, the Dees were eliminated from the finals in straight sets. It was even worse last year, when Narrm inexplicably lowered its colours in Perth to the Waalit Marawar Eagles. Oh, the shame of it all! At least this year, if there is a corner to turn around, it has to be in the direction of something better. To that end, I produced a special pre-game chant in the local Narrm language - “nam mi:wi winnamun katjil prolin ambi ngamar thamelin amb” which roughly translated is “every heart beats true for the red and the blue.” >y belief is that if all of the Narrm faithful recite it long enough, then it might prove to be the only way to beat the Brisbane Lions at the Gabba on Sunday. The Lions are coming off a disappointing draw at Marvel Stadium against a North Melbourne team that lacks the ability and know how to win games (except when playing Melbourne). Brisbane are, however, a different kettle of fish at home and have very few positional weaknesses. They are a midfield powerhouse, strong in defence and have plenty of forward options, particularly their small and medium sized players, to kick a winning score this week after the sting of last week’s below par performance.

      • 0 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • REPORT: Hawthorn

      There was a time during the current Melbourne cycle that goes back to before the premiership when the club was the toughest to beat in the fourth quarter. The Demons were not only hard to beat at any time but it was virtually impossible to get the better them when scores were close at three quarter time. It was only three or four years ago but they were fit, strong and resilient in body and mind. Sadly, those days are over. This has been the case since the club fell off its pedestal about 12 months ago after it beat Geelong and then lost to Carlton. In both instances, Melbourne put together strong, stirring final quarters, one that resulted in victory, the other, in defeat. Since then, the drop off has been dramatic to the point where it can neither pull off victory in close matches, nor can it even go down in defeat  gallantly.

      • 0 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • CASEY: Footscray

      At twenty-four minutes into the third term of the game between the Casey Demons and Footscray VFL at Whitten Oval, the visitors were coasting. They were winning all over the ground, had the ascendancy in the ruck battles and held a 26 point lead on a day perfect for football. What could go wrong? Everything. The Bulldogs moved into overdrive in the last five minutes of the term and booted three straight goals to reduce the margin to a highly retrievable eight points at the last break. Bouyed by that effort, their confidence was on a high level during the interval and they ran all over the despondent Demons and kicked another five goals to lead by a comfortable margin of four goals deep into the final term before Paddy Cross kicked a couple of too late goals for a despondent Casey. A testament to their lack of pressure in the latter stages of the game was the fact that Footscray’s last ten scoring shots were nine goals and one rushed behind. Things might have been different for the Demons who went into the game after last week’s bye with 12 AFL listed players. Blake Howes was held over for the AFL game but two others, Jack Billings and Taj Woewodin (not officially listed as injured) were also missing and they could have been handy at the end. Another mystery of the current VFL system.

      • 0 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • PREGAME: Brisbane

      The Demons head back out on the road in Round 10 when they travel to Queensland to take on the reigning Premiers and the top of the table Lions who look very formidable. Can the Dees cause a massive upset? Who comes in and who goes out?

        • Like
      • 131 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • PODCAST: Hawthorn

      The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 12th May @ 8:00pm. Join Binman, George & I as we dissect the Demons loss to the Hawks. Your questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

      • 52 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • POSTGAME: Hawthorn

      Wayward kicking for goal, dump kicks inside 50 and some baffling umpiring all contributed to the Dees not getting out to an an early lead that may have impacted the result. At the end of the day the Demons were just not good enough and let the Hawks run away with their first win against the Demons in 7 years.

        • Sad
        • Like
      • 374 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland
    View All