Caroline Wilson on MFC rumblings

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

You didn't and couldn't have, because they haven't and won't release their 2020 assessments until the season is over.

You again as always were being selective. Only problem was you didn't get your years correct

They release the list assessment before each season.

2020 list ratings

 

[whatwhat say what 22,774]

Champion Data list ratings are based on rolling 40 game average so tend to be up to two seasons behind

Hence why Kangas were rated far more highly than they deserved to be in reality

[picket fence 17,172]

On 9/11/2020 at 6:22 PM, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Spot on

She clearly has only a small pool of sources,  most of whom appear to have an axe to grind

She has become the mouthpiece of those wanting to air dirty laundry because they can't get their own way through decent channels 

Sheeeit sounds like some of her sources come from Demonland LOL!

[DeeSpencer 25,717]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Been widely panned this year, not totally sure I agree with this mate. How much more pressure do you think can possibly come onto a coach? Reckon game plan is a fair part of that.

I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened.

 

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Rated no 1 in 2019 (Champion Data)

Rated no 9 in 2020

Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder.

 

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Don't remember Pickett and Spargo? Or Fritsch being "late to training"? Also, apparently the officials in Cairns had a bit to say about how much the Dees sooked while up there.

Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one.  The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything  we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't.

 

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Do you legitimately believe that's due solely to the performance of Goodwin and Mahoney? Injuries weren't a factor?

Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt.

 

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Why not? Assistant coaches at other clubs would have looked on in horror at Mahoney's review and changes mid-season. If he's gone and we get a highly rated quality person in of course that impacts the situation positively.

Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. 

 

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

There's always next year hey.... The eternal cry of us long suffering Dees supporters.

I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

Fair enough mate. We might not agree on it all but appreciate your well reasoned response.

Personally I think Mahoney and Goodwin are a bit TOO joined at the moment and could be part of the reason Mahoney is not with us next year should that eventuate.

(Also, just didn't want to take up the whole page with quoting your full post)

Cheers!

[whatwhat say what 22,774]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Fair enough mate. We might not agree on it all but appreciate your well reasoned response.

Personally I think Mahoney and Goodwin are a bit TOO joined at the moment and could be part of the reason Mahoney is not with us next year should that eventuate.

(Also, just didn't want to take up the whole page with quoting your full post)

Cheers!

this for me is why he's gotta go at the end of the season

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm unclear on the basis for these two bolded statements. If they're from Caroline Wilson's article, I'm not convinced that her opinion should automatically be accepted as fact.

Keen to see the answer to this “fact” as well. 

[old dee 23,792]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened.

 

Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder.

 

Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one.  The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything  we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't.

 

Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt.

 

Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. 

 

I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

Re your last comment above I think there is little to no chance that they will not be at the club in 2021. Financially we cannot afford to move them.  

[Pennant St Dee 13,188]

7 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

They release the list assessment before each season.

2020 list ratings

 

And as I said it's not based on the 2020 season 

So again don't use it as a basis to say we haven't improved in 2020

Edited September 17, 2020 by Pennant St Dee

[rjay 24,935]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened.

 

Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder.

 

Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one.  The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything  we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't.

 

Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt.

 

Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. 

 

I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

I think you've argued this well 'Dee' and backed it up with solid logic.

As much as the defeats really p... me off, there have been changes made to the game and we are still building the list.

...and I know others don't like it but the fixture hasn't helped us.

The one are I get really angry with Goodwin is on selection, some decisions defy logic.

...as an aside, I did love seeing him emotionally involved in the game on the weekend rather than his boring poker face look.

I hope we see a lot more of it.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

And as I said it's not based on the 2020 season 

So again don't use it as a basis to say we haven't improved in 2020

It's a rating not a prediction of the future.

Shouldn't be so hard to understand really.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

19 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Champion Data list ratings are based on rolling 40 game average so tend to be up to two seasons behind

Hence why Kangas were rated far more highly than they deserved to be in reality

Shows why many take champion data with a large grain of salt

[Lord Travis 10,736]

Champion Data is just statistics. It's not always going to represent the reality of what happens, as there are variables they can't account for.

However, they rate our list 9th and we're currently 9th on the ladder... so it's fairly accurate! ?

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Statistics: 60% of the time they're right every time

(according to the anchorman)

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,802]

32 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Statistics: 60% of the time they're right every time

(according to the anchorman)

And about 10% of the time people can't even say stastistics...stastitics...statistics properly, so say "data" instead.

[Pennant St Dee 13,188]

13 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

It's a rating not a prediction of the future.

Shouldn't be so hard to understand really.

So they are predicting we haven't improved.

I'll leave it there I understand footy and football clubs. 

You just continue pedalling out rumours of unrest etc and big noting yourself 

[TRIGON 4,783]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

And about 10% of the time people can't even say stastistics...stastitics...statistics properly, so say "data" instead.

Is it true that the word statistics is banned in Spain?

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

18 hours ago, old dee said:

Re your last comment above I think there is little to no chance that they will not be at the club in 2021. Financially we cannot afford to move them.  

What information is the 'we cannot afford to' opinion based on?

Actual finance? What is our current cash status? 

Cost? What are the basic terma of the payout?

 

 

 

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

54 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

So they are predicting we haven't improved.

I'll leave it there I understand footy and football clubs. 

You just continue pedalling out rumours of unrest etc and big noting yourself 

You're confused with things that are statistical ratings and things that are predictions.

Continue with your potshots if you wish. I'll just chat footy with the grown ups.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

You're confused with things that are statistical ratings and things that are predictions.

Continue with your potshots if you wish. I'll just chat footy with the grown ups.

They are not necessarily  mutually exclusive entities. 

Statistical information is used as a basis for predictions.

 

[old dee 23,792]

2 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

What information is the 'we cannot afford to' opinion based on?

Actual finance? What is our current cash status? 

Cost? What are the basic terma of the payout?

 

 

 

 

Goodwins contract is said to be $750k PA. Mahoneys is probably multi 6 figures. Let’s be conservative and say collectively they are being paid $1million PA. So $2 miillion for the next two years if they are sacked early I.e. next month. The AFL has made a number of comments about them not helping to pay sacked coaches salaries. So the $2 million falls to the MFC we are too small and have too little resources to cover that pay out as well as pay a replacement that at the least would cost Another $500k PA. And $300k for the Mahoney replacement. Conservatively the cost to the MFC To sack both would be $3.6 million Over the next two years and as high as $2.8 million in 2021. It simply is not going to happen this year. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,867]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Goodwins contract is said to be $750k PA. Mahoneys is probably multi 6 figures. Let’s be conservative and say collectively they are being paid $1million PA. So $2 miillion for the next two years if they are sacked early I.e. next month. The AFL has made a number of comments about them not helping to pay sacked coaches salaries. So the $2 million falls to the MFC we are too small and have too little resources to cover that pay out as well as pay a replacement that at the least would cost Another $500k PA. And $300k for the Mahoney replacement. Conservatively the cost to the MFC To sack both would be $3.6 million Over the next two years and as high as $2.8 million in 2021. It simply is not going to happen this year. 

There is a good chance Mahoney is out of contract this year, at least I hope so.

[whatwhat say what 22,774]

pretty significant change 

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-insists-on-six-month-payout-clauses-for-coaches-20200918-p55wu1.html

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Goodwins contract is said to be $750k PA. Mahoneys is probably multi 6 figures. Let’s be conservative and say collectively they are being paid $1million PA. So $2 miillion for the next two years if they are sacked early I.e. next month. The AFL has made a number of comments about them not helping to pay sacked coaches salaries. So the $2 million falls to the MFC we are too small and have too little resources to cover that pay out as well as pay a replacement that at the least would cost Another $500k PA. And $300k for the Mahoney replacement. Conservatively the cost to the MFC To sack both would be $3.6 million Over the next two years and as high as $2.8 million in 2021. It simply is not going to happen this year. 

That's actually not a bad estimate but you haven't answered my question.

How do you know we cant afford it?

[Cards13 9,117]

16 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

That's actually not a bad estimate but you haven't answered my question.

How do you know we cant afford it?

I’d say zero clubs could afford it in the current climate. No one knows what the Covid future holds for us let alone sporting entities where clubs in Aust are generally not billionaire owed like the US or UK. Even being billionaire owned most sports entities world wide are contracting, non playing  staff wise dramatically/looking to reduce as much cost from the business as possible.