POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs Fremantle

[Kent 2,914]

15 hours ago, SFebes said:

I thought of this however I don’t think it explains not being able to bend down, I’m no doctor though, just an observation.

again why play him is unbelievable?

[SFebes 4,884]

19 minutes ago, Kent said:

again why play him is unbelievable?

I don't understand many of our selections over the last few years tbh.

[Lucifers Hero 40,365]

Goodwin saying the club is immature and needs to be 'ruthless' may come back to haunt him.  ruthless-or-toothless  Questions posed therein:  "Ruthless about what? Ruthless on the field? In team selection? In list management? Standards?"

It has a few 'home truths' but its a fair article.  Interestingly, Gleeson says:  "We tried to speak to president Glenn Bartlett for his thoughts about this culture of immaturity but after a blustery outburst earlier this year he has gone silent".

And on Fox, Brereton highlighted Goodwin's lack of 'ruthlessness' in team selection with players who regularly let him down.  Said he is 'too nice'.  We all know who Dermie might be thinking of!

Edited September 8, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[SFebes 4,884]

7 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Goodwin saying the club is immature and needs to be 'ruthless' may come back to haunt him.  ruthless-or-toothless  Questions posed therein:  "Ruthless about what? Ruthless on the field? In team selection? In list management? Standards?"

Therein are a few 'home truths' but its a fair article.  Interestingly, Gleeson says:  "We tried to speak to president Glenn Bartlett for his thoughts about this culture of immaturity but after a blustery outburst earlier this year he has gone silent".

And on Fox, Brereton highlighted Goodwin's lack of 'ruthlessness' in team selection with players who regularly let him down.  Said he is 'too nice'.  We all know who Dermie might be thinking of!

Thanks for this, nothing wrong with home truths at all. Wonder why Bartlett has gone silent and cannot be contacted?

[Lucifers Hero 40,365]

6 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Thanks for this, nothing wrong with home truths at all. Wonder why Bartlett has gone silent and cannot be contacted?

No idea and anything I come up is pure conjecture.  My conjecturing ranges from Bartlett realising he made a mistake with his last outburst to not taking too kindly to Goodwin saying the whole club (which he is President of) needs to be more ruthless.  Or anything in between.

I'm guessing Goodwin feels secure to go on as coach to say the whole club needs to be more ruthless otherwise he is setting himself up for the most ruthless thing the club could do:  sack him.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[binman 43,823]

15 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Goodwin saying the club is immature and needs to be 'ruthless' may come back to haunt him.  ruthless-or-toothless  

 

This quote hit home like an arrow, as it mirrors my thoughts after both games - which of these teams is in finals contentions?. which of these teams are playing with a desperation born of a refusal to countenance losing?, which of these teams are playing wit the required intensity?

'A ruthless analysis will condemn Melbourne most for their losses to Sydney and Fremantle by acknowledging that those two teams looked to be galloping past the Demons. The ruthless observation would be that they looked to be teams with desire, a plan and a style.

As clubs they played with, yes, a ruthlessness that the season might have ended for them a while ago as far as finals were concerned but small victories could be taken in any sporting contest. They understood that with less at stake than Melbourne in the grand scheme of this season and finals they would still play like there was more at stake.'

[Demon3 2,541]

18 hours ago, loges said:

Seen this too often from Weideman, will never be more than an average player. Needs to be 2nd or third man, not good enough for the number 1 key.

I agree, i think Weid could be a good player and in fact has had a really good year, 19 goals from 10 games.. if you double it its nearly a 40 goal season. SO he has had a good year. He will benefit from another really good fwd, because at the moment he is trying to be teh stay at home fwd and teh lead up CHF.. he has to be one or the other. We are desperate for a key fwd, is it Jackson? who knows, he really showed something but is it enough to bank on him. We need 3 players that can kick 30 plus for the year, one of those to be 45+. Right now we have Weid 19/ Fritsch 18 and Melksham 15

small / crumbers: Pickett - 6 / Spargo 6 - its not enough

On ball: Trac 13 / Brayshaw 5 / Viney 5 / Oliver 3 - its not enough. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Demon3

[Demon3 2,541]

Further to that, Goodwin has played Melksham all year and he has been less that average.. 15 goals is a surprise so its hard to argue on just numbers but he is playing part time football. We need him full time. I cant believe Hannan isnt given the time Melksham is. Hannan is quicker, better mark, more flexible and can kick goals. I actually think they have a winger right there is Hannan and they have not tried him. The frustration levels are increasing everyday with this club the more i think about their failures and why the poor supporters continue to be the brunt of the jokes of the AFL while the players and teh FD and teh club seem to be covered in oil, because nothing sticks to them. You can hold them to account all you like but until there are changes, whats teh point. Nothing has changed in 2 years since we lost a prelim and the club thought they would waltz into finals the next year, they thought they could coast through a pre season, they didnt think injury management and a timeline was important, they confirmed to me that they are the most unproffesional sporting organisation in Australia. Convince me that they are not? ill wait. there is a list a mile long of poor decisions and mismanagement and mistakes. They simply cannot get their act together and until they do, this is our lot. I care about them, i love them, but right now, i hate them.

[chook fowler 19,568]

we have so many players that get only a handful of possessions - ANB, Hannan, Hunt, Smith, AVB, Spargo, Pickett, Bedford, Lockhart, Harmes - and when they do get it , turn it over. Nibblers disposal on Monday was disgraceful. To add to this we are the worst tackling side in the comp. No wonder we are where we are.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,311]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:17 AM, rolling fog said:

It's all well and good to say that we need better players, not sub par/VFL standard etc. players. 

This doesn't just happen through high draft picks and expensive trades. There simply isn't the supply of players that are both quality and available, not to mention you generally need to pay over the odds to prise players from another club. 

So the key is to develop what you have and/or draft strategically and place elite development resources and support structures around the players. 

The great sides of the last 20-ish have all done this in a sustainable way - Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney, Richmond (?)

That's true moneyball, and I don't see us doing this. 

Goodwin's game plan relies on the individual brilliance of some highly touted players - Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, May.

So when they stink it up or are well held there isn't the depth or game structure to adapt.  

The converse to this is that those players who don't have the skills need to play to their strengths. Not everyone can drop it on a dime from 50m away but everyone can run hard, pressure and defend.

We are simply not a well drilled team and that is on the coaches. All of them.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Dr. Gonzo

[jnrmac 20,189]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

No idea and anything I come up is pure conjecture.  My conjecturing ranges from Bartlett realising he made a mistake with his last outburst to not taking too kindly to Goodwin saying the whole club (which he is President of) needs to be more ruthless.  Or anything in between.

I'm guessing Goodwin feels secure to go on as coach to say the whole club needs to be more ruthless otherwise he is setting himself up for the most ruthless thing the club could do:  sack him.

The President's spray was timely but we don't need him commentating every week

 

[Demon17 5,203]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

No idea and anything I come up is pure conjecture.  My conjecturing ranges from Bartlett realising he made a mistake with his last outburst to not taking too kindly to Goodwin saying the whole club (which he is President of) needs to be more ruthless.  Or anything in between.

I'm guessing Goodwin feels secure to go on as coach to say the whole club needs to be more ruthless otherwise he is setting himself up for the most ruthless thing the club could do:  sack him.

My version of ruthless would have been not offering Nathan Jones a new 1 year deal for the swan song. Goodwin is hypocritcial in this regard.

I suspect he has no answers and resorts to jargon because of this.

Successful clubs, sort of, in this predicament, kept the head coach and brought in quality assistants and support.

I defy anyone to make an argument that our forward and midfield coaches should be retained on 2 years of statistical disasters.

Pies brought in Caracella dn Longmuir for Buckley, Hardwick had chanegs likewise.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,311]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:58 AM, Wiseblood said:

I disagree, but only because they are young.  Kozzie has played a handful of games and is 18 years old.  That was Bedford's second game.  Of course we would like to see more, and they had little influence last night, but that's not what has me worried.  They at least have time on their side to continue to develop.

How many players have ever developed beyond what they bring to the club when first recruited? I'm not holding out hope on that one. I thought Kozzie had great goal sense before we drafted him based on his highlights package but sadly that seems to not be the case.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

The President's spray was timely but we don't need him commentating every week

 

I tend to agree.

We neither need, nor want, the president to comment every time we lose. I don't think that's a smart or helpful way for the president/board to deal with the club.

That's not to say Bartlett or the board shouldn't be putting pressure on internally and/or reviewing all operations. Just that it doesn't need to be done publicly every time something goes wrong.

[old dee 23,872]

11 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I tend to agree.

We neither need, nor want, the president to comment every time we lose. I don't think that's a smart or helpful way for the president/board to deal with the club.

That's not to say Bartlett or the board shouldn't be putting pressure on internally and/or reviewing all operations. Just that it doesn't need to be done publicly every time something goes wrong.

They would never be out of the news.

[SFebes 4,884]

I'd like to think that our President, if and when approached, would answer tough questions and not run for the hills though.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

1 minute ago, SFebes said:

I'd like to think that our President, if and when approached, would answer tough questions and not run for the hills though.

Hopefully formulating a Plan A,B,C & D!  No real point in saying too much in public before our season is officially over.  Doubt he is running away from the tough questions.  Answering with a cool head with overall perspective is probably smarter than being reactionary like most of us here on Demonland.

[Earl Hood 6,101]

2 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Further to that, Goodwin has played Melksham all year and he has been less that average.. 15 goals is a surprise so its hard to argue on just numbers but he is playing part time football. We need him full time. I cant believe Hannan isnt given the time Melksham is. Hannan is quicker, better mark, more flexible and can kick goals. I actually think they have a winger right there is Hannan and they have not tried him. The frustration levels are increasing everyday with this club the more i think about their failures and why the poor supporters continue to be the brunt of the jokes of the AFL while the players and teh FD and teh club seem to be covered in oil, because nothing sticks to them. You can hold them to account all you like but until there are changes, whats teh point. Nothing has changed in 2 years since we lost a prelim and the club thought they would waltz into finals the next year, they thought they could coast through a pre season, they didnt think injury management and a timeline was important, they confirmed to me that they are the most unproffesional sporting organisation in Australia. Convince me that they are not? ill wait. there is a list a mile long of poor decisions and mismanagement and mistakes. They simply cannot get their act together and until they do, this is our lot. I care about them, i love them, but right now, i hate them.

Yes I have been wondering why Hannan hasn’t been given a run on the wing. Does he lack the endurance to do the required running like Langdon? He looks to have the speed and skills but playing forward he goes missing but again is that as much to do with our forward entries, kick long to contested packs of defenders hoping for someone to crumb the ball but we rarely have someone front and centre for the spilled ball. Hannan, Melk and Fritsch aren’t crumbers or defensive forwards more the slippery, smart flanker types who can get free to mark on the lead. But we rarely spot a forward up with our entries so can’t play 3 blokes we aren’t gonna use. Moving Hannan to the wing might make better use of his skills but only if he is prepared to gut run to position, chase, tackle, all the stuff that most of our players should be able to do but often don’t. 

[bazza226 74]

There is no sign of Glen Bartlett because he is out the back in his shed sharpening his axe

[jnrmac 20,189]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The converse to this is that those players who don't have the skills need to play to their strengths. Not everyone can drop it on a dime from 50m away but everyone can run hard, pressure and defend.

We are simply not a well drilled team and that is on the coaches. All of them.

No one gets to AFL without some decent skills. Yes they can fail under pressure but they all start with being able to kick handball and mark

[leave it to deever 17,526]

I noticed that most of havent been too hard on the umpiring of the dockers game.

This is probably due to shock and anger.

We feel (rightly )that we would lose any finals regardless.

Nonetheless under good umpiring we would have won that game. In wet windy condtions in a low scoring game dodgy free kick differentials have a big impact.

I base this on my half baked, double bourban , bald brained theory that 2.567 free kicks are worth 7.543 points. This takes into account the reciprical number of where they were paid added to the number they simply dont multiplied by 1 factorial of 50m penalties.

All that aside I really do think the umpiring was atrocious. Sometimes it seems that these blokes just go through a period in their thick heads where they will just penalize a side come what may. That first quarter and half of the 2nd seemed like one such time. 

Yea yea, all supporters feel jibbed but in this case there were a heap of clangers made by these professionals and the level of consistency was woeful.

And yea its the last refuge of the disgruntled supporter but in watching other non Dee's games this year I feel that many of these umps suffer from adhd.

Booooooooooo.

[Cards13 9,117]

28 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I noticed that most of havent been too hard on the umpiring of the dockers game.

This is probably due to shock and anger.

We feel (rightly )that we would lose any finals regardless.

Nonetheless under good umpiring we would have won that game. In wet windy condtions in a low scoring game dodgy free kick differentials have a big impact.

I base this on my half baked, double bourban , bald brained theory that 2.567 free kicks are worth 7.543 points. This takes into account the reciprical number of where they were paid added to the number they simply dont multiplied by 1 factorial of 50m penalties.

All that aside I really do think the umpiring was atrocious. Sometimes it seems that these blokes just go through a period in their thick heads where they will just penalize a side come what may. That first quarter and half of the 2nd seemed like one such time. 

Yea yea, all supporters feel jibbed but in this case there were a heap of clangers made by these professionals and the level of consistency was woeful.

And yea its the last refuge of the disgruntled supporter but in watching other non Dee's games this year I feel that many of these umps suffer from adhd.

Booooooooooo.

How Preuss was not given a 50 after his run down tackle, only to be scragged by the Freo player?! Vanders had a free turn around earlier in the year for less ffs.

[old dee 23,872]

5 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Further to that, Goodwin has played Melksham all year and he has been less that average.. 15 goals is a surprise so its hard to argue on just numbers but he is playing part time football. We need him full time. I cant believe Hannan isnt given the time Melksham is. Hannan is quicker, better mark, more flexible and can kick goals. I actually think they have a winger right there is Hannan and they have not tried him. The frustration levels are increasing everyday with this club the more i think about their failures and why the poor supporters continue to be the brunt of the jokes of the AFL while the players and teh FD and teh club seem to be covered in oil, because nothing sticks to them. You can hold them to account all you like but until there are changes, whats teh point. Nothing has changed in 2 years since we lost a prelim and the club thought they would waltz into finals the next year, they thought they could coast through a pre season, they didnt think injury management and a timeline was important, they confirmed to me that they are the most unproffesional sporting organisation in Australia. Convince me that they are not? ill wait. there is a list a mile long of poor decisions and mismanagement and mistakes. They simply cannot get their act together and until they do, this is our lot. I care about them, i love them, but right now, i hate them.

The other glaring thing in his statement is he has had this team for 4 years now if he cannot get that out of them after  4 years he never will.

[Lucifers Hero 40,365]

Btw Kozzie got fined, again, for a rough conduct charge.  Yet nothing to the Freo players who flattened Viney and Hunt with body hits to the head.  Would have expected fines for them at least.  Nothing.

[Ham 741]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How many players have ever developed beyond what they bring to the club when first recruited? I'm not holding out hope on that one. I thought Kozzie had great goal sense before we drafted him based on his highlights package but sadly that seems to not be the case.

Gawn, Trac, Hibberd, Jetta, Melksham just off the top of my head.