Interviewer to greatest coach of all time: What makes a good coach?

Coach: Good players.

Just wondering, and asking on behalf of the Norm Smith Friendship Society, is it possible we don't have enough good players?

Edited Sunday at 03:413 days by Queanbeyan Demon

6 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Think we’re scored 4 goals and 17 conceded so far in the 4th quarters this season. Out of steam or swords down when game’s gone?

Definitely out of steam in Round 1, but looked to me like we laid down last week and this week.

Okay we all know how to defend against the MFC gameplan of 2022 but I'd be interested to know how you defend the corridor game (Adelaide and Hawthorn) or the angular game (Collingwood).

Do you crowd the ball carrier trying to cause the turnover or do you close off the downfield opportunity. If the latter do you go man on man or zone.

I've noticed that when two corridor teams play each other it can become a fast fumbling mess.

Are talls relevant in todays forward lines given fast delivery on the lead.

2 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Okay we all know how to defend against the MFC gameplan of 2022 but I'd be interested to know how you defend the corridor game (Adelaide and Hawthorn) or the angular game (Collingwood).

Do you crowd the ball carrier trying to cause the turnover or do you close off the downfield opportunity. If the latter do you go man on man or zone.

I've noticed that when two corridor teams play each other it can become a fast fumbling mess.

Are talls relevant in todays forward lines given fast delivery on the lead.

You play a positional and possession game. 6-6-6. With a roaming defender. And you score over the top on the turnover. Just as Adelaide, Hawthorn and Collingwood do

The Lindsay news is a huge relief as his imminent return is already vital to our new game style.

4 hours ago, John Crow Batty said:

A couple of decades ago the Italian football team were bagged for playing the ultra defensive physically aggressive “Catenaccio” game. It was not pretty fast flowing football the critics told us. It was boring and a blight on the game. That said it brought Italy two World Cup victories and they were one of the most dominant world teams for decades. Then they changed their game to be more attacking and attractive in the modern style and duly became just another average team which can’t even make the World Cup competition any more.

Yes, thank you, that was exactly my point. I would FAR rather watch us win 71-64 in a " boring defensive style " than watch us play fast, outside football and lose by 5 goals.

Now, about our midfield. In his presser, Goody said our midfield system wasn't working, and that is obviously true. Much as he was a greatly-loved player, should we be looking at our first-year midfield coach?

1 hour ago, Ollie fan said:

should we be looking at our first-year midfield coach?

Absolutely.

6 hours ago, Adam The God said:

We're trying to play a new game style. The players didn't keep at it for long enough yesterday. It was an ordinary performance. Absolutely no doubt about that. Listless.

We are using the chipping game at half back that Geelong and then Hawthorn last year used.

When we played Hawthorn last year, we beat them by 9 goals. They spent most of the game chipping it uncontested across half back to free themselves up from our zone. It didn't work and they looked listless. Sound familiar?

Hawthorn also lost their first five games last year. They were pummelled. It took time to build confidence and trust in their system. They lost to Essendon by 4 goals, to us by 9 goals, Geelong by 6 goals, Collingwood by 5 points, Suns by practically 9 goals, before finally beating a hopeless, bottom of the table North in Round 6.

To me, our players look like they don't trust the system. Yet.

Go back to the start of 2022 and Collingwood trying to learn their new run and gun game style under McRae. They were 5 wins, 5 losses to Round 10, and at times looked completely hopeless. They got on a roll after that.

The point I'm obviously making is this will take time.

To start talking about rebuilding or sacking the coach at Round 3 is ridiculous.

Even if we were to sack Goody, the coach who would replace him would be trying to play the transition game we're trying to implement.

I think it's perfectly fine to have this conversation at the end of the season, and I think we'll know earlier, but the idea that we pack it all in after we've been trying to implement a new game style based on quick, accurate ball use (utilising Windsor, McVee, Lindsay and Kozzy), when most of them have failed to get on the park is folly IMO.

Is our list build at its conclusion? Of course it b loody isn't. We'll need to keep adding guys that can run and have clean skills like those aforementioned guys (and be aggressive with our trading), but that doesn't mean this season is over. If Hawthorn had thought that after Round 5 2024, they'd be nowhere, and Collingwood after Round 10 2022, no flag for them.

The key stumbling block is the potential mental fragility of our players, which is being mirrored by some supporters who want to rebuild after 3 rounds.

We need to execute on game day and build trust in the system, at least for 2025.

A guy like Langford who was hitting those angled kicks into the corridor yesterday, we need more of, Kozzy is capable of them too. Instead of going back slowly, because the movement ahead of the ball and around the ball carrier is stagnant or uncertain, we start hitting those kicks more, and the ball movement becomes more instinctive, which means players start to trust the game style more.

I still think Viney needs to play forward (he won't be dropped), Trac needs to play majority forward and Sparrow needs to make way or (as @rjay has previously suggested), we try him in the Hibberd lockdown defensive role, which might free McVee up to play high half back. Rivers needs to play midfield too, because he butchers it too often at half back.

Our starting midfield should be Oliver, Langford and Kozzy, with support coming from Trac, Rivers and Viney.

We looked very similar to the Hawks in that game. All I can hope is that we can turn it around in a similar fashion to them.

The season is still young...

On 28/03/2025 at 19:44, Ollie fan said:

On another track, I have been thinking about some of the players we have let go - Jordon, Bedford and Harms in particular. All of them have made their way elsewhere as taggers. We have not really focused on having a tagger - Harms did it occasionally but not consistently. But it didn't seem to be a part of Goody's method.

But at the moment there are a number of players who absolutely MUST be tagged - eg Cripps, Daicos, Neale - and I wonder if we should develop a player in that role. And as someone who just doesn't seem to be making it, but who is a good size and might have the discipline, I wonder if Woey Jr could do that?

Noticeable point. I'd give Sparrow a go, but he would need some specialist advice in order to so do, some depth coaching and speed work. Goody misuses him most of the time, anyway.

8 hours ago, Adam The God said:

We're trying to play a new game style. The players didn't keep at it for long enough yesterday. It was an ordinary performance. Absolutely no doubt about that. Listless.

We are using the chipping game at half back that Geelong and then Hawthorn last year used.

When we played Hawthorn last year, we beat them by 9 goals. They spent most of the game chipping it uncontested across half back to free themselves up from our zone. It didn't work and they looked listless. Sound familiar?

Hawthorn also lost their first five games last year. They were pummelled. It took time to build confidence and trust in their system. They lost to Essendon by 4 goals, to us by 9 goals, Geelong by 6 goals, Collingwood by 5 points, Suns by practically 9 goals, before finally beating a hopeless, bottom of the table North in Round 6.

To me, our players look like they don't trust the system. Yet.

Go back to the start of 2022 and Collingwood trying to learn their new run and gun game style under McRae. They were 5 wins, 5 losses to Round 10, and at times looked completely hopeless. They got on a roll after that.

The point I'm obviously making is this will take time.

To start talking about rebuilding or sacking the coach at Round 3 is ridiculous.

Even if we were to sack Goody, the coach who would replace him would be trying to play the transition game we're trying to implement.

I think it's perfectly fine to have this conversation at the end of the season, and I think we'll know earlier, but the idea that we pack it all in after we've been trying to implement a new game style based on quick, accurate ball use (utilising Windsor, McVee, Lindsay and Kozzy), when most of them have failed to get on the park is folly IMO.

Is our list build at its conclusion? Of course it b loody isn't. We'll need to keep adding guys that can run and have clean skills like those aforementioned guys (and be aggressive with our trading), but that doesn't mean this season is over. If Hawthorn had thought that after Round 5 2024, they'd be nowhere, and Collingwood after Round 10 2022, no flag for them.

The key stumbling block is the potential mental fragility of our players, which is being mirrored by some supporters who want to rebuild after 3 rounds.

We need to execute on game day and build trust in the system, at least for 2025.

A guy like Langford who was hitting those angled kicks into the corridor yesterday, we need more of, Kozzy is capable of them too. Instead of going back slowly, because the movement ahead of the ball and around the ball carrier is stagnant or uncertain, we start hitting those kicks more, and the ball movement becomes more instinctive, which means players start to trust the game style more.

I still think Viney needs to play forward (he won't be dropped), Trac needs to play majority forward and Sparrow needs to make way or (as @rjay has previously suggested), we try him in the Hibberd lockdown defensive role, which might free McVee up to play high half back. Rivers needs to play midfield too, because he butchers it too often at half back.

Our starting midfield should be Oliver, Langford and Kozzy, with support coming from Trac, Rivers and Viney.

Whilst some of this might be true, it doesn't explain our annihilations in back to back weeks in CPs/clearances.

I can accept we're trying to move the ball differently, and failing. That's in part due to personnel issues and in part due to old dogs being unable to learn new tricks.

But how we try to move the ball is irrelevant to what we're doing at stoppage.

Also, IMO we can't play Trac forward unless and until we sort ourselves out in the middle.

6 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Okay we all know how to defend against the MFC gameplan of 2022 but I'd be interested to know how you defend the corridor game (Adelaide and Hawthorn) or the angular game (Collingwood).

Do you crowd the ball carrier trying to cause the turnover or do you close off the downfield opportunity. If the latter do you go man on man or zone.

I've noticed that when two corridor teams play each other it can become a fast fumbling mess.

Are talls relevant in todays forward lines given fast delivery on the lead.

You ask are talls relevant in the same post you talk about Adelaide playing a corridor game with fast delivery.

Adelaide play Walker, Fogarty, Thilthorp and Curtain in the same side (plus O'Brien). Those four combined for 11 goals today.

24 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Whilst some of this might be true, it doesn't explain our annihilations in back to back weeks in CPs/clearances.

I can accept we're trying to move the ball differently, and failing. That's in part due to personnel issues and in part due to old dogs being unable to learn new tricks.

But how we try to move the ball is irrelevant to what we're doing at stoppage.

Also, IMO we can't play Trac forward unless and until we sort ourselves out in the middle.

I've acknowledged also that something is going on internally, because there seems to be pretty clear mentality fragility amongst the playing group.

6 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Also, IMO we can't play Trac forward unless and until we sort ourselves out in the middle.

Agree...

Not sure who has had a chance to look at Kings analysis on first crack, but shows some damming vision of Trac Oliver and Viney just trailing Matt Rowell out of a clearance all the way down the ground where Rowell gets to the next contest to create an out number which results in Rowell getting a holding the ball free at the top of 50 where he then proceeds to hand it off to another unmanned player for an easy goal. Wouldn’t matter what tactics we have if our supposed 3 best mids are doing that we aren’t winning many games. They should honestly all be dropped to the VFL, no wonder Goodwin sent Trac Fwd it wasn’t to create a goal chance it was to hide him. Langford a first year player showed them all up why keep playing them when we have kids that will actually try

Edited Monday at 00:432 days by Garbo

More and more I'm looking at our midfield coach. He was brought in for PR really but we are getting shellacked in the clearances so there are no good forward opportunities and too much pressure on the defence. And the players look very unhappy - why is that?

22 hours ago, Adam The God said:

We're trying to play a new game style. The players didn't keep at it for long enough yesterday. It was an ordinary performance. Absolutely no doubt about that. Listless.

We are using the chipping game at half back that Geelong and then Hawthorn last year used.

When we played Hawthorn last year, we beat them by 9 goals. They spent most of the game chipping it uncontested across half back to free themselves up from our zone. It didn't work and they looked listless. Sound familiar?

The problem I have is that this might be true of us. But it doesn't excuse missed tackles, dropped chest marks, handballs to feet and 20m kicks to the opposition. And losing clearance and woeful leg speed.

Oh and our fwd 50 entries. Fundamentals of any game plan.

Other than that I get your point.

On 29/03/2025 at 18:50, jnrmac said:

Our last 11 games we have won clearance twice.

I'd say its a fairly important part of the game that we have dropped dramatically

Without checking, i assume you mean we've lost the raw clearance count 9 times in the last 11 games.

If yes, that would actually be pretty consistent with our numbers even when playing winning footy. Which is unsurprising given we bring one less to around stoppages (or did - have we been doing this season?).

Whilst important in terms of winning terrority, the key clearance related stat (j6stbahead of post clearance contested possession), particularly for us, is scores from clearances. We rarely lose that stat.

Unfortunately, in what is a real worry atm - the roos and suns both smashed us in scores from clearances.

Edited Monday at 02:212 days by binman

On 30/03/2025 at 12:44, Neil Crompton said:

Hey @binman , serious questions, can you please explain to me just what our game plan is supposed to be. Because what I’m seeing is just a mass of confusion and contradictions.

For example, the keeping’s off game down back is so slow that it allows the opposition time to flood back and block up any forward entry. There is no room for forwards to lead- hence we are always bombing to a pack. So that form of entry is self defeating surely.

Whatever it is, do you believe our game plan is suited to and is appropriate for today’s game style? What we are doing looks different to all other teams I’ve watched this year. And it certainly doesn’t look like it is a winning game plan so far.

Do you think it’s time for Goody to be honest and admit it’s not working and change our approach? Not easy, and there would be initial pain, but perhaps we’d see some light at the end of the tunnel There is certainly no light at present And the players look and are playing like they are none believers.

I know we have injuries to key players, but that doesn’t account for the unacceptable skill levels we are seeing, or the complete lack of awareness being shown (or lack of on field communication) by players with the ball, or simply the confusion demonstrated by the players on how to play the game.

They have had the whole preseason to get the game plan working Its now coming up to round 4, we are 0/3, and looking confused and utterly bereft of any shred of confidence. Do you feel that the players have lost confidence in the game plan and, by extension, Goody as well?

What, IYO, is the best way forward?

Thanks

G'day @Neil Crompton I saw this post.

When i get some time I'll respond

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

The problem I have is that this might be true of us. But it doesn't excuse missed tackles, dropped chest marks, handballs to feet and 20m kicks to the opposition. And losing clearance and woeful leg speed.

Oh and our fwd 50 entries. Fundamentals of any game plan.

Other than that I get your point.

I agree. Above, I've said that we have a mental fragility that we were told Darren Shand would be all over.

The mental stuff is the most worrying. How much of it can be fixed by building trust in the system? I suspect much of it, so we need to play 4 quarters of footy that utilises the ball movement we've spent the summer and the previous summer practising, and give it a chance to gel, and from there perhaps belief and confidence grows.

We had a similar game style in 2017-2018 that took a bit of time to gel, but by the second half of 2018 was becoming instinctive.

When we shifted our game style from a super high press and repeat entries of this era to the defence first, contest first of territory, but less aggressive but repeat entries and overrunning the opposition in 3rd and 3th quarters across 2021, it took us 2019-2020 to shift that game style.

Last year, we started the first part of the season playing a hybrid stoppage / transition game that was very hit and miss, but had us 6-2. We then lost to Collingwood, and lost our most influential score involvement player in Trac that was helping sustain the new game style. But the coaches (and players, I reckon) lost their nerve and went back to a territory contest game of 2021-2023. This had us in games against quality opposition like GWS and Port, but it meant we were delaying the inevitable, and wasting time practising the new model.

I'd hope we could get it to click in 2025, but as I say, it took us two years 2019-2020 to get the defence first two way running game perfected by 2021, so 2026 might be the year we rocket up.

It's hard to say, but first and foremost we have to stick to the plan and hold our nerve. Second, we need continuity out on the field with those guys that can transition the ball without simple turnovers. And third, we need to sort out our mental fragility.

2 hours ago, binman said:

Without checking, i assume you mean we've lost the raw clearance count 9 times in the last 11 games.

If yes, that would actually be pretty consistent with our numbers even when playing winning footy. Which is unsurprising given we bring one less to around stoppages (or did - have we been doing this season?).

Whilst important in terms of winning terrority, the key clearance related stat (j6stbahead of post clearance contested possession), particularly for us, is scores from clearances. We rarely lose that stat.

Unfortunately, in what is a real worry atm - the roos and suns both smashed us in scores from clearances.

I've been looking to try to work out numbers at the contest and it didn't appear we were doing that on Saturday. When I watched, both teams seemed to play one behind the ball.

That being said, numbers around the contest weren't always even (side by side). So it was a bit like both teams were playing +1 at the contest, but on the fat/skinny side. I thought our stoppage setups looked a bit awkward at times, with the loose player not in the right spot (boundary line side).

But I didn't watch consistently to see if this was a pattern.

Edited Monday at 04:412 days by At the break of Gawn

We have seen so many teams start the games this year with pressure games 200+ sustained for multiple quarters. You can see it clearly on the telly, when there is an intensity to the game. When i refer to effort - this is the only thing i look for. I know we will make mistakes and changing gameplan i expect them. It'll annoy me but i can walk away thinking we are trying something new.

However, i don't understand why we dont bring that frantic pressure we are seeing from just about every other team. Have we even got a quarter over 200 yet? Part of me thinks that it is planned, i.e. not to spend our tickets too early or save the body? Is that because we are not fit enough? What if its not planned? What then? I really hope somebody asks these questions of Goody and others in the club.

Pressure is how you generate turnovers more effectively. Turnovers are crucial to the transition game all over the ground. So to me pressure is fundamental to this game style, that doesn't need a pre-season to train. It just needs you to turn up and fight (very close to inserting Trump's fight GIF).

I never would have thought that having good kicks of the ball would be the way going forward, never in my wildest dreams 🤪

1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

GC started the 3rd quarter centre clearances 7- 0

We were hopeless and Jeff White has identified some of the problems

Structural but also self imposed pressure where players like Viney have no confidence in their team mate and so repeatedly dives into a contest leaving a GC player on the outside.

This is the classic bees to the honeypot and our bad old days. Because the mids are under pressure they seem to have reverted to these poor standards.

1 hour ago, GS_1905 said:

We have seen so many teams start the games this year with pressure games 200+ sustained for multiple quarters. You can see it clearly on the telly, when there is an intensity to the game. When i refer to effort - this is the only thing i look for. I know we will make mistakes and changing gameplan i expect them. It'll annoy me but i can walk away thinking we are trying something new.

However, i don't understand why we dont bring that frantic pressure we are seeing from just about every other team. Have we even got a quarter over 200 yet? Part of me thinks that it is planned, i.e. not to spend our tickets too early or save the body? Is that because we are not fit enough? What if its not planned? What then? I really hope somebody asks these questions of Goody and others in the club.

Pressure is how you generate turnovers more effectively. Turnovers are crucial to the transition game all over the ground. So to me pressure is fundamental to this game style, that doesn't need a pre-season to train. It just needs you to turn up and fight (very close to inserting Trump's fight GIF).

Melbourne have a history of crumbling under sustained pressure.

GC and GWS' only games at the G this year they were both primed to perform well