Is Alistair Clarkson worth a discussion

[BigMacjnr 283]

It would be an anomaly in the sporting world if Goodwin were on a straight x dollars over x years. I know the media talk in those terms but as the players will tell you, their top rate is only achieved if they achieve all of their contract incentive triggers based on performance. If the board were smart there would have been flexibility in the contract so that if he significantly under performs the contract that the contract would only have the base rate guaranteed. You would also want to clause to have any payout to be over the years of the contract instead of one upfront payment which is more difficult for the financial and cash flow position of the club. 

Let's hope the board were forward thinking.   

[Ted Lasso 19,414]

Not sure if anyone of the legal minds on here can answer this, but surely clubs hiring a senior coach could put in legal clauses so that if certain performance markers weren't met the clubs would have the oppotunity to move them on without paying them out?

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,358]

At this stage of his life he'd probably prefer something a little less challenging, like finding a two state solution to the Israel / Palestine problem. 

[demonique 314]

1 hour ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Yes. Lyon or Clarko would be my preference. I don’t think the club will part ways with Goodwin though...COVID means he will see out his contract imo

I don't think the club can afford not to give Goodwin the push along with others in the FD 

[dees189227 12,373]

He wouldn't have the patience to deal with us. He'd get so frustrated and probably walk out. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,554]

1 hour ago, BigMacjnr said:

It would be an anomaly in the sporting world if Goodwin were on a straight x dollars over x years. I know the media talk in those terms but as the players will tell you, their top rate is only achieved if they achieve all of their contract incentive triggers based on performance. If the board were smart there would have been flexibility in the contract so that if he significantly under performs the contract that the contract would only have the base rate guaranteed. You would also want to clause to have any payout to be over the years of the contract instead of one upfront payment which is more difficult for the financial and cash flow position of the club. 

Let's hope the board were forward thinking.   

Good analysis but in the absence of  a break clause unlikely. You may recall that Goodwin's contract was delayed and I suspect he was making sure it had reasonable security. Good on him.

If we terminate him early we have to compensate him for the base plus the chance of the bonuses. Measuring the loss of a chance is difficult but it is commonly done in legal proceedings.

There's always the Scott outcome where it was said that he walked from North on the understanding of a full payout less what he got should he take up a coaching position with another club. As it turned out he didn't get another job so I assume he got the full payout. Combine that with the fact that Shaw would have come cheap at least in his initial years and you understand how North were able to afford it. Clarkson on the other hand would not come cheap.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,202]

9 hours ago, billyblanks32 said:

Teague is a prototype good modern coach. Doesn't over coach structure/method. Encourages players to take the game on, play their natural instincts & style.

How did that work out for him tonight?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,202]

5 hours ago, TRIGON said:

Clarkson and Hodge as an assistant?

Would rather Sam Mitchell but seems he's Hawks coach in waiting.

[Demonland 71,653]

 

[Cards13 9,117]

Who would you prefer Kennett or Bartlett?

Easy answer for mine. 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

Interesting everyone says Goodwin not a good coach, Clarkson is a master coach, that Goodwin is often out coached, but he has a winning record against the master coach, even the great Norm Smith ran out of ideas, Ron barassi ran out of ideas, Kevin Sheedy ran out of ideas, every great coach ends up with a poor team.

[Adam The God 30,153]

10 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Interesting everyone says Goodwin not a good coach, Clarkson is a master coach, that Goodwin is often out coached, but he has a winning record against the master coach, even the great Norm Smith ran out of ideas, Ron barassi ran out of ideas, Kevin Sheedy ran out of ideas, every great coach ends up with a poor team.

This is why I'm not all in on Clarkson. Has he run out of ideas, as you say? It's a pertinent question.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 minute ago, don't make me angry said:

Interesting everyone says Goodwin not a good coach, Clarkson is a master coach, that Goodwin is often out coached, but he has a winning record against the master coach, even the great Norm Smith ran out of ideas, Ron barassi ran out of ideas, Kevin Sheedy ran out of ideas, every great coach ends up with a poor team.

Hi dmda, not quite sure I get you’re point,  happy to hear it again but for mine Goody isn’t quite in the same sphere as the coaches you’ve mentioned. He really needs to get this group over the hump.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

10 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Hi dmda, not quite sure I get you’re point,  happy to hear it again but for mine Goody isn’t quite in the same sphere as the coaches you’ve mentioned. He really needs to get this group over the hump.

 I am not saying Goodwin is in the same sphere as those greats, Every coach's  end comes, Clarkson might be at the end at  being a great coach, just because Clarkson has 4 flags does not mean he is still a great coach, he is not hungry anymore, you can see he has taken short cuts in trying to rebuild his list.

[dazzledavey36 54,435]

Clarkson is washed up.

Going down the same path as Sheedy, Malthouse Pagan where the game has caught up to them and they haven't moved with the times. 

Clarkson has left the Hawks list in a mess.

[Adam The God 30,153]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Clarkson is washed up.

Going down the same path as Sheedy, Malthouse Pagan where the game has caught up to them and they haven't moved with the times. 

Clarkson has left the Hawks list in a mess.

Look, I'm inclined to agree, but at this stage, all we know for sure is he's left the Hawks list in a mess.

Malthouse went to Collingwood after winning the Eagles' flags and still managed to pull out a flag, so there is a precedence. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,661]

6 hours ago, A F said:

Look, I'm inclined to agree, but at this stage, all we know for sure is he's left the Hawks list in a mess.

Malthouse went to Collingwood after winning the Eagles' flags and still managed to pull out a flag, so there is a precedence. 

Plus Matthews won 3 flags at the Lions after one at the Pies.

Trying to think of premiership coaches going to another club and not winning a flag  (exluding Roos and Sheedy as their roles were set-up/rebuild).  Not many I suspect.

So not sure the folks that say premiership coaches don't succeed at a second club has a lot of merit.  imv, it would be silly to not consider Clarkson on that assumption or his last few years.  He simply hasn't had the players and key ones have been injured.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[dazzledavey36 54,435]

6 hours ago, A F said:

Look, I'm inclined to agree, but at this stage, all we know for sure is he's left the Hawks list in a mess.

Malthouse went to Collingwood after winning the Eagles' flags and still managed to pull out a flag, so there is a precedence. 

Was more talking about Malthouse from his Carlton days.

[BDA 22,735]

Maybe Clarkson has run out of ideas but Goodwin definitely has. In fact i'm not sure he's had any good ideas in 4 years.

What we do know is with a quality list Clarkson can deliver. 

What I expect from Clarkson is man management to get the best out of the group of players we have. We don’t need a tactical genius just get the basics right, such as midfield and forward step-up. Cut out these lapses in concentration and application. I think Clarkson can do that, motivate and lead the players and bring some belief into the club as someone who has been there and done that.

If he's available and excited by the prospect to coach our group then he should be number 1 on our list to replace Goodwin.

[Adam The God 30,153]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Was more talking about Malthouse from his Carlton days.

Yeah, I know you were, but champion coaches don't always lose it at their second club.

[Smokey 4,389]

On 7/30/2020 at 10:56 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

It doesn't surprise me that you still use one of these at home 

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

4 minutes ago, Smokey said:

It doesn't surprise me that you still use one of these at home 

Always good to keep a landline Smokey. Just in case the iphone dies

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Kangas going hard at Paul Roos for senior assistant

[Smokey 4,389]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Always good to keep a landline Smokey. Just in case the iphone dies

Can never be too prepared, SWYL! 

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

1 minute ago, Smokey said:

Can never be too prepared, SWYL! 

Google Image is a great help :)