POSTGAME: Rd 09 vs Port Adelaide

[DemonOX 8,791]

I really don't think the MFC is a good environment for a untried coach.

We have had a few who have came in and failed and Goody looks like the next in line. Basically success of 2018 was basically on the back of Roos work.

We need an experienced coach such as Mark Williams, Ross Lyon and or Clarkson.

I honestly think Clarkson is very gettable given the talk about Hawthorn and their current performances.

I really hope Pert and Co are looking into this option.

[Willmoy1947 4,099]

There has never been a more physically abused  Captain and player than Max. Every time he went for the ball he was stripped from the back and sides, by some two bit little runts who, if we had the players who would do the subtle interference that that mob were coached to do, in the clinches, that result would have been vastly different. Port is a side that plays the man at every opportunity. 

EG:  We would go for the ball, they would go for the tackle, and never the ball, and it looked terrible. Players held without the ball constantly. Players tripped all the time. Players randomly pushed, ragged and strangely purposely kicked and tripped on their way over fallen opponents. What a shambolic bunch of second rate umpires who even have the gall to yell out decisions that do not resemble what happened......

Personally i think we should have Women Umpires who would have far more balanced decisions based on what they see, not what they think they see. That would be a start......

 

[old55 23,625]

Well it's very hard for even @Pollyanna to find any positives from that debacle, although I guess Steven May contained Charlie Dixon.

Our biggest strength is our greatest weakness.  Max's ruck domination is too predictable.  There's a difference between first possession and clearance.  We're flat track bullies - against the weaker midfields we can turn first possession into the clearance but against stronger well-drilled midfields they turn our first possession into their clearance. Contested clearance is the centre-piece of our strategy and it all goes horribly wrong from there.

What to do?  Well it won't happen but ...

I'd ruck Max less and ruck Jackson (or Preuss when Jackson needs week off) more to change up the dynamic.  I'd also ask Max to mix up the set-plays when he rucks much more with some big thumps forward and make sure our forwards are first to the ball.  When he's not rucking I'd vary Max either in defensive 50 or attacking 50 and let him use his marking strengths which is really his biggest winning asset.  I'd also instruct him to handball from the mark to a runner going past at least some of the time, probably most of the time.

I'd move Viney forward, he has been very good this year but along with Oliver he's all first possession and it's too samey with him in the midfield rotation, he'd make a great small forward and he could cameo or provide injury coverage in the middle.  I'd put Brayshaw back in there with Petracca and Oliver and as others have pointed out - use Harmes as a stopper when Neale or Boak get on top - in this case Oliver and Petracca can go forward in his place.

[binman 43,137]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

I blame myself for getting my hopes up and thinking we were a good team (again)

Will I ever learn?

I don't

[Adam The God 30,286]

9 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Well it's very hard for even @Pollyanna to find any positives from that debacle, although I guess Steven May contained Charlie Dixon.

Our biggest strength is our greatest weakness.  Max's ruck domination is too predictable.  There's a difference between first possession and clearance.  We're flat track bullies - against the weaker midfields we can turn first possession into the clearance but against stronger well-drilled midfields they turn our first possession into their clearance. Contested clearance is the centre-piece of our strategy and it all goes horribly wrong from there.

What to do?  Well it won't happen but ...

I'd ruck Max less and ruck Jackson (or Preuss when Jackson needs week off) more to change up the dynamic.  I'd also ask Max to mix up the set-plays when he rucks much more with some big thumps forward and make sure our forwards are first to the ball.  When he's not rucking I'd vary Max either in defensive 50 or attacking 50 and let him use his marking strengths which is really his biggest winning asset.  I'd also instruct him to handball from the mark to a runner going past at least some of the time, probably most of the time.

I'd move Viney forward, he has been very good this year but along with Oliver he's all first possession and it's too samey with him in the midfield rotation, he'd make a great small forward and he could cameo or provide injury coverage in the middle.  I'd put Brayshaw back in there with Petracca and Oliver and as others have pointed out - use Harmes as a stopper when Neale or Boak get on top - in this case Oliver and Petracca can go forward in his place.

See, this to me is shutting up shop. If the opposition exploits your strength, you have to look at how they and why they're exploiting that strength. If just about your entire game plan is based around this strength, then maybe the game plan is too one dimensional? Surely it'd be better to look at ways of making our strength more of a strength, not just avoiding it by not using it. 

Completely agree with your last paragraph though. They are all moves I'd make as well. They align with the one time we've been reasonably consistent as a team (ie 2018). 

I think if we know we're likely to get first hands to the stoppage, we need not rush our next disposal. Just keep resetting until we can get a cleaner clearance. Make the opposition have to revert to a plan B to get their hands on it. The new form of possession game. I'm sure this is too overly simplified, but we still undoubtedly have a dominance in Max. Therefore, let's go less attacking in terms of stoppage set ups, which enable us to defend or flip the switch to attack if appropriate.

[jules7 792]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Can't imagine life in the hub is much fun right now...

...no way to get away from the horror show.

Good !!!!

[old55 23,625]

2 minutes ago, A F said:

See, this to me is shutting up shop. If the opposition exploits your strength, you have to look at how they and why they're exploiting that strength. If just about your entire game plan is based around this strength, then maybe the game plan is too one dimensional? Surely it'd be better to look at ways of making our strength more of a strength, not just avoiding it by not using it. 

What I'm trying to suggest is a way to harness his dominance more effectively by using it more dynamically and not letting the opposition set up for it on a permanent basis.  IMHO a big ruckman's greatest asset is around the ground marking which Max is great at and my suggestion tries to maximise this.  I've never rated tap-outs, no matter how good they are.

[In Harmes Way 7,796]

Maybe they should change Jackson's nickname to Samson

As soon as his hair was cut off, we turned to [censored]. 

Much like his haircut (not a fan....)

[Fat Tony 5,252]

After a bad nights sleep reflecting on last night's loss, it is pretty clear the players were extremely flat and tired going into the game. They only had a four day break and have been on the road for a month, so it is a bit understandable to have a let down. (That's not to say it wasn't very disappointing.) We have played pretty well over the last three weeks and so the game needs to be put into perspective.

In saying this, I am a bit perplexed by Goodwin saying last week that he wasn't going to rest any players over this period of compressed games. This is clearly a mistake. We should be making significant changes to bring in some fresh legs, otherwise we will just get the same result as last night. Our game style is about pressure at the contest and we cannot win if we don't get this right. And we need fresh players to achieve this. Plus, our depth is reasonably good. I would prefer to see a fresh Tomlinson play instead of a cooked Jackson.

[Adam The God 30,286]

9 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

What I'm trying to suggest is a way to harness his dominance more effectively by using it more dynamically and not letting the opposition set up for it on a permanent basis.  IMHO a big ruckman's greatest asset is around the ground marking which Max is great at and my suggestion tries to maximise this.  I've never rated tap-outs, no matter how good they are.

It's just a pity we have such a dominant ruckman in a way, because I agree. If you look at Nankervis or even Boyd when he was at the Bulldogs, McEvoy at Hawthorn, it's the one position that the powerhouses have never really had. Even Geelong with Ottens. 

I take it that Ben Matthews is entirely our midfield coach now, given Plapp is forward coach. We might need to look at this area, from a coaching personnel perspective, because McCartney was very good in this area and getting stoppages right. 

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,251]

3 hours ago, layzie said:

Didn’t write much in this thread last night, trying to wait till the day after once all the smoke has settled on results like these.

I watched the second half of the West Coast v Collingwood game last week and with margins over 40 points this year being a bit more rare I had a slight chuckle and grin on my face. “Hey, that team is getting completely scorched and it’s Collingwood! A flag favourite! Who cares at least it’s not us for a change!”

Well… We didn’t even have to wait a full week, be careful what you wish for as a Melbourne fan because no matter how embarrassing another team’s performance is you can bet your bottom dollar we are happy for someone to hold our beer and go one better, putting our supporters in that oh so familiar position of not only sad to lose but beyond embarrassed, not wanting to show their faces in public and void of any hope once again.

We all know teams have the mulligan performance, it happens we get it. All the best sides get it blah blah blah. This team does it WAY too often. We’ve had at least 3 of them this year and it is just a habit now. In Grade 4 my teacher told us that for creative writing that we were only allowed to write one short story that included any violence. I did it anyway, by the middle of the year I had written about 3 and she politely reminded me that we were only allowed to write one. It’s a stupid and laughable example and yes I have gone a little loopy but it’s the same thing, you get 1 horribly inept performance in this game. It should be unacceptable, it should be criticised, it should be something you never aim to do again but for some reason you just keep writing violent 4^th grade quality short stories and the message doesn’t get through. For as long as I can remember Round 1 2012 straight after Jim’s passing – no ticker, Round 1 2013 against Port – No ticker, Round 1 last year – no ticker the list goes on and on and on and it seems perfectly acceptable.

For the first time almost ever I would have loved to push a button to enforce the mercy rule in the 3^rd quarter and end the game with the final score there, I had no faith at all that we were going to score and even though we got a couple it was still crappy viewing.

I think responsibility is 70% players and 30% Goodwin last night. Weak as water efforts, Under 10 level skill errors and bad bad bad decision making. Really reverted back to the panic and don’t see open players thing. Max is now completely wasted and I firmly believe half of an oppositions preparation is going into him, studying his hitouts and where they go. How do we god damn solve this issue because it’s going to keep going.

One dimensional, beat us at contested ball and win. No plan B, no ‘if X is happening we’ll do Y’ X was Port making us kick to the left hand side every time and Y seemed to be let’s keep kicking it long down the left hand side.

I’m too tired and unproductive at work to keep this going right now, big thanks to anyone who read this. Just needed to get it out, at least the podcast is on tonight. I think everyone will be impressed hearing from Adrian he’s as die hard as they come.

Wow ... fantastic post.

[Adam The God 30,286]

12 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

After a bad nights sleep reflecting on last night's loss, it is pretty clear the players were extremely flat and tired going into the game. They only had a four day break and have been on the road for a month, so it is a bit understandable to have a let down. (That's not to say it wasn't very disappointing.) We have played pretty well over the last three weeks and so the game needs to be put into perspective.

In saying this, I am a bit perplexed by Goodwin saying last week that he wasn't going to rest any players over this period of compressed games. This is clearly a mistake. We should be making significant changes to bring in some fresh legs, otherwise we will just get the same result as last night. Our game style is about pressure at the contest and we cannot win if we don't get this right. And we need fresh players to achieve this. Plus, our depth is reasonably good. I would prefer to see a fresh Tomlinson play instead of a cooked Jackson.

Well, if you have watched the video with Burgo on the MFC website prior to yesterday's match, it's pretty clear that our fitness guys thought we had the legs in us. Burgo seemed to intimate that he had to convince the guys that they had the legs in them and that if we got the mental stuff right, we'd be fine, given the amount of kms we'd done over pre season and then the COVID mini pre season. I reckon a lot of last night was above the shoulders.

Edited July 31, 2020 by A F

[Willmoy1947 4,099]

17 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Well it's very hard for even @Pollyanna to find any positives from that debacle, although I guess Steven May contained Charlie Dixon.

Our biggest strength is our greatest weakness.  Max's ruck domination is too predictable.  There's a difference between first possession and clearance.  We're flat track bullies - against the weaker midfields we can turn first possession into the clearance but against stronger well-drilled midfields they turn our first possession into their clearance. Contested clearance is the centre-piece of our strategy and it all goes horribly wrong from there.

What to do?  Well it won't happen but ...

I'd ruck Max less and ruck Jackson (or Preuss when Jackson needs week off) more to change up the dynamic.  I'd also ask Max to mix up the set-plays when he rucks much more with some big thumps forward and make sure our forwards are first to the ball.  When he's not rucking I'd vary Max either in defensive 50 or attacking 50 and let him use his marking strengths which is really his biggest winning asset.  I'd also instruct him to handball from the mark to a runner going past at least some of the time, probably most of the time.

I'd move Viney forward, he has been very good this year but along with Oliver he's all first possession and it's too samey with him in the midfield rotation, he'd make a great small forward and he could cameo or provide injury coverage in the middle.  I'd put Brayshaw back in there with Petracca and Oliver and as others have pointed out - use Harmes as a stopper when Neale or Boak get on top - in this case Oliver and Petracca can go forward in his place.

Totally agree with everything you said. Horses for courses and Preuss in particular, in that, and last weeks situation , would fill the bill, and the fear of the Lord.

Did notice that the opposition did seem to have a high opinion of Burgess. He should have told them to feck off.

[layzie 33,863]

4 minutes ago, bingers said:

Wow ... fantastic post.

Cheers, fairly sure I've gone bonkers.

[Fat Tony 5,252]

29 minutes ago, A F said:

Well, if you have watched the video with Burgo on the MFC website prior to yesterday's match, it's pretty clear that our fitness guys thought we had the legs in us. Burgo seemed to intimate that he had to convince the guys that they had the legs in them and that if we got the mental stuff right, we'd be fine, given the amount of kms we'd done over pre season and then the COVID mini pre season. I reckon a lot of last night was above the shoulders.

It must have been a combination of legs and mental. But my point stands, we needed to make more changes given the short turnaround and the road ahead.

We also went into the game too top heavy.

[jnrmac 20,108]

5 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

For the second time this year we have witnessed the opposition bench openly laughing while having a rest. I have never seen this before and this time they were all kids!

At the same time our bench resembled a wake with Brayshaw's body language in particular a real concern.

If anyone thinks there are not some issues ongoing within the playing group /coaching group, it's time to take the rose coloured glasses off. 

It's humiliating enough to be a Melbourne supporter and deal with the garbage this lot give us but for professional players to have this happen on the field is a total embarrassment and shows what the competition really thinks of Melbourne.

What a basket case and a joke are we.

It is outright shameful and to me demonstrates a complete breakdown in team ethos. Whether they are peeved at the coach or there are different factions amongst the playing group as rumoured for several years now it is beyond the point where it can be fixed by the current administration and coaching staff.

Why does it take the blowtorch of the AFL community for the team to come out in a half decent effort (Hawthorn game) then fall back again the next week against Brisbane for 3 poor qtrs.

And now this disgusting 4 quarter capitulation against Port.

Something yet again is terribly wrong at Demon-land.

Maybe someone is missing their puppy?

 

[Adam The God 30,286]

12 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

It's humiliating enough to be a Melbourne supporter and deal with the garbage this lot give us but for professional players to have this happen on the field is a total embarrassment and shows what the competition really thinks of Melbourne.

What a basket case and a joke are we.

It is outright shameful and to me demonstrates a complete breakdown in team ethos. Whether they are peeved at the coach or there are different factions amongst the playing group as rumoured for several years now it is beyond the point where it can be fixed by the current administration and coaching staff.

Why does it take the blowtorch of the AFL community for the team to come out in a half decent effort (Hawthorn game) then fall back again the next week against Brisbane for 3 poor qtrs.

And now this disgusting 4 quarter capitulation against Port.

Something yet again is terribly wrong at Demon-land.

Maybe someone is missing their puppy?

 

It doesn't have to be all baby out with the bathwater stuff. I'd look at our midfield coach, I'd like at our forward coach / or ball movement, and the head coach. 

[loges 6,767]

4 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

 

Yeh nah.  

Your Jesse Hogan posts were deleted because they were unsubstantiated rubbish ('he was at a party in my apartment building'), not because you had any 'inside mail' that needed censoring. You then pretended to be a lawyer when you were called out on your limited understanding of defamation and the legal risk to which you exposed the site's owners, one of whom is an actual lawyer.

Interesting

[TRIGON 4,783]

I think the depths that last night's performance plumbed to can be summed up by the fact that this morning, when I thought about the game, I genuinely felt sorry for the commentators who had to call it; fully appreciating that they were paid to do so.

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

This is the broken record we encounter every week.

Every coach has studied our "game plan". Whereas our coaches appear to know nothing about the opposition.

Every coach comes up with some strategy to thwart us. Our coaches are bewildered every time and have no answer.

When was the last time our coaches did a number on the opposition, strategy-wise?

Our coaches have had their pants pulled down so many times they might as well donate them to the Salvos. They're so used to going around bare-arsed.

 

Great post

[Pates 9,660]

I just had a listen to May's post-match interview, he wasn't talking in cliche's or anything, I'm glad to see he's p-ssed and hopefully that will get a better effort next match. They all need rocket's up their bums leading up to Adelaide, we're going to have a longer break than them and there is no reason at all why we shouldn't be smashing them.

They should all be utterly ashamed by what they put up, that's worse than what we saw in 2019.

[DemonOX 8,791]

One positive is that Jackson can really rock the mullet 

Looked awesome. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

10 hours ago, Deesprate said:

I totally agree with this post. The whole transition of captaincy has destabilised this club. Unless your in the inner sanctum  it speculation but you can’t have so many talented players and be this bad. Jones has been a great servant but he has been a part of 15 years of failure. He need to own that as a leader. Right or wrong he is associated with losing but could be a powerful force for agitation. Jones to me look like Turnbull got the boot and rather than hand the baton to Viney lobbied the troop to soft option in Gawn. I think we have a lot of precious players and a bull like Viney was pushed aside for Max. Don’t get me wrong Max is a great player but as a captain if you wanted the easy ride as a player Gawn would be your man. I would love Melbourne to conduct a secret culture survey I think it would uncover deep cracks. If you want to improve culture identify those who exemplify you’re values build around them and offload those who don’t no matter how good they are as players. If there are cracks being quarantined with COVID would surely be bringing it out.

May is Captain material.  The only bloke with venom and agro who gives it to the others around if they [censored] up.   The only adjustment...how he delivers the barrage.  More Hodge like would be helpful maybe.

 

9 hours ago, BScotti said:

last night was pathetic.  cant deny it. like most long serving supporters and members I have never been flatter (other than 2018, and 2007-14, and most of the 70's and 80;s).  Lets hope it was just issues over the 4 day break and we do bounce back but this must be the line in the sand.

changes are required.  The TMac experiment as a forward is over - back to defense you go and Omac back to scratch matches.  Harmes needs a a rest and as much as we love Oliver in his inside work he just needs to be dropped and practicing his execution and kicking skills - deplorable.

Jones - we need to find a way to honour hius legacy to the club so we dont treat him like James Mc - but he should not be in the side.  Pickett will be a star, but he needs a rest and some work on skills.  

Changes for this week:

IN:  VdB, ANB, Bennell, Tomlinson, Rivers, Brown, Bedford, 

out: Harmes, OMac, Jones, Fritch, Pickett, Oliver, Jackson

 

In full agreement with those changes.  Probably wont happen though.

Brown gets a look at CHF for 3 to 4 and IF that's a flop then May MUST go to CHF.  He is a leader and i reckon needs to take the game by the scruff of the neck and is capable of dragging the rest by their ball sacks to victory or at least die trying.

It's time to start kicking winning scores.  Tomlinson replaces May down back.  Season's gone.  Subject to Brown being given a chance (and doesn't look like he is on Goody's favoured list) we must roll the dice and see what we've got with May playing out of this position.  He is very good down back but we need the leadership and grunt up forward.  The forward line is a complete rabble without him and IMV he is our big hope, bar a solid clean out at season's end.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Mickey 4,685]

Clarry fined for the hit on Ladhams 

[John Demonic 5,817]

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I am still haunted by losing to Sydney at the MCG after Sydney had lost 26 games in a row.

 

When was that? I'm still haunted by attending a Friday night rare prime time game we received in the 90s Vs a hapless freo when Modra kicked 10.  Pumped myself up all week for it, I sat behind goals expecting to see some action, but all I saw all night was Modra taking speccys and a  Freo cheer squad cheering to a silent stadium. A truelly woeful evening. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by John Demonic