Goodwin shows some emotion...finally

[bing181 9,194]

As soon as I saw that image on the video I knew there'd be a thread along these lines.

So cuffing predictable.

Don't ever change Demonland.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

15 minutes ago, dworship said:

I don't really expect an answer from SWYL. No doubt it will be Chinese whispers from his media contacts and by definition will be without substance.

Wrong. Nothing to do with media contacts

[binman 42,690]

2 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Don't ever change Demonland.

 

Don't go changing to try and please me
You never let me down before
Don't imagine you're too familiar
And I don't see you anymore

 

I wouldn't leave you in times of trouble
We never could have come this far
I took the good times; I'll take the bad times
I'll take you just the way you are

 

Don't go trying some new fashion
Don't change the color of your hair
You always have my unspoken passion
Although I might not seem to care

 

I don't want clever conversation
I never want to work that hard
I just want someone that I can talk to
I want you just the way you are

 

I need to know that you will always be
The same old someone that I knew
What will it take till you believe in me
The way that I believe in you?

 

I said I love you and that's forever
And this I promise from the heart
I could not love you any better
I love you just the way you are

[Dr. Gonzo 24,195]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We were about 5 goals when we did that. I immediately said to my missus that was legit the first time I've seen the coach actually show some anger.

I personally loved it!

I missed this was it 2nd or 3rd quarter?

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

39 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Not denying it, just asking you to back up a claim you made

Are you in contact with those in the Manly Hub or Bartlett or Pert, coz he would only listen to either Richo or those 2, if in fact he has been told at all

Coz if you are not in contact with those 3, you are getting it second hand

Whereas when Chaplin was asked the question, he answered directly to those online

 

You have no idea who i am in contact with, and i will never out a source. 
They have been pretty close to the mark over the last 6-7 years and i plan to keep it that way  

Yes i am getting it second hand from someone who was involved, that is why they were able to tell me what occurred with some authority. 

That is how a source operates...

Edited July 19, 2020 by Sir Why You Little

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I was told by my source that he normally hits the underneath of the desk in an upward motion. He was told to make it more overt by raising his fist and hitting the top of the desk with a downward motion. Make of it what you will. 

So does that mean it was a skill issue or decision making? 

[Beetle 4,601]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I missed this was it 2nd or 3rd quarter?

Last quarter 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

21 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You have no idea who i am in contact with, and i will never out a source. 
They have been pretty close to the mark over the last 6-7 years and i plan to keep it that way  

Yes i am getting it second hand from someone who was involved, that is why they were able to tell me what occurred with some authority. 

That is how a source operates...

What ever was said or not said,I don't think that made Goodwin slam the desk when we were 48 points up, talk about long bows 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Not from wear i'm sitting CDP.  Goody has been experimenting with a variation of the rolling zone (loose to tight variants) and the high press (half press and somewhat higher press, no spare out the back, a spare out the back etc) since 666 came in last season.

Since the match against the Cats we moved away from pretty much giving up the front half of the ground in a pretty loose rolling zone (with no spare) from the get go till nearing the end of the 3rd (when the game was pretty much lost), and effectively conceding the match early.  We then moved away from a loose zone in the front half, tightened up, pressured down hard on the man but still lost pretty badly trying to come from too far behind.

Compare this to after the match against the Cats. Mostly playing man on man / or a tight pressure down zone (early on...and staying in the game early) to maintaining a slightly tighter zone once the game opens up (usually much later in the match but we are still in it or in touch).  The exception was the Tigers, where the change to a pressure down style took place early.  We stayed in the match and with them early before their cleaner disposal and better conversion in front (vs the reverse of those for us for much of the match) took its toll after quarter time.

This change up in game style, particularly team defence early, means we have our teeth into the match (or have been) since the get go post the match against the Cats and, in my view, this began to pay dividends from the first quarter against the Tiges and has improved each week since then culminating in today's result.

The replacement of T-Mac with Weid has also seen a big improvement inside 50.  Giving the team a genuine leading target (structure / options coming inside 50, options out the back on occasions with room being created when Weid is dragging his opponent out on the lead) and bringing the ball to ground at the feet of our smalls and small mediums like Hannan & Kozzy a little closer to goal instead of the many shallow entries we were seeing up until the match against the Tigers (but no genuine in form KF to take advantage), along with the return of Harley and some manic tackling inside 50 / return to form from the likes of Hannan.

Langdon and Salem (pushing up through the middle) have also been outstanding (Langdon all season....Salem in the last two matches)  and added some outside run / class that wasn't there last season.  As has Harley of course as he ramps up his game time slowly (75% last two matches vs 50% in his first match).

Hibb's run off HB and the return of a much improved O-Mac (vs last season) has also been a huge help across HB.  Lever has also begun to hit a bit of form.  May in his best form (for us) so far.  Added together, this has taken our back 6 to another level, making us even more difficult to score against.  I would argue our back 6 is now better than what we had in 2018 which augers well going forward.

A classy and detailed response to my assertions. I'm going to take a look at those games and re-evaluate.

The personnel based stuff, I certainly agree with.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Cheesy D. Pun

[Adam The God 30,130]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Great post Rusty.

I'd add that another change has been playing more tempo footy and being a bit more patient with our ball movement.

We are still looking to pull the trigger though, which makes us an exciting team to watch when it comes together as it has in the last couple of weeks where have scored goals with quick, aggressive ball movement - as we di so often in 2018.

And like 2018 when on we run in waves with 2 or 3 players in a line as the ball sweeps forward as an option for the handball.

The thing that remains the same is the commitment to pressure, tackling and contest out footy. Footy built for finals.

It's essentially Richmond's game plan with a bit of 2018 Melbourne thrown in. We're finally seeing the plan A and B. The ability to play tempo when necessary. But the zone we played today was a high press, but then it had about a 20m gap again between the next reinforcement. We set up beautifully today.

It's definitely built for finals, but unlike Richmond, if Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney get going, it's too much for an opposition to counter and I think if they can find a level of consistency, in many ways we've got a greater ceiling than Richmond. 

What we have lacked that the great Hawthorn sides had and Richmond over the past 3 seasons, is that cleverness and creativeness around the stoppages and the forward half to create scoring chances and keep the ball moving forward. That ability to keep the pressure high on the opposition and capitalise when there's a chance to score. 

This is why I love the inclusion of Kozzie and Bennell, and even Jackson. They're clever, crafty, clean players that have great awareness and if they can stay fit, this will really give us another string to our bow.

Edited July 19, 2020 by A F

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

2 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

What ever was said or not said,I don't think that made Goodwin slam the desk when we were 48 points up, talk about long bows 

What are you talking about??

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

8 hours ago, binman said:

Great post Rusty.

I'd add that another change has been playing more tempo footy and being a bit more patient with our ball movement.

We are still looking to pull the trigger though, which makes us an exciting team to watch when it comes together as it has in the last couple of weeks where have scored goals with quick, aggressive ball movement - as we di so often in 2018.

And like 2018 when on we run in waves with 2 or 3 players in a line as the ball sweeps forward as an option for the handball.

The thing that remains the same is the commitment to pressure, tackling and contest out footy. Footy built for finals.

Good point Bin.  Constant play on was really hurting us.  They finally woke up a little after the match against the Tiges in this area as you say.

The other part about running in waves yes.  Also i've noticed a few more handballs to players positioned wider of immediate contest, opening up the channels and giving the receiver more time to execute and less bodies in front to spot up targets.

I can't recall against GC, but we seemed more intent on switching y'day as well.

All good signs if they can keep up these improved habits and not revert back to 2019 and the first 4 to 5 matches this season.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

7 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

A classy and detailed response to my assertions. I'm going to take a look at those games and re-evaluate.

The personnel based stuff, I certainly agree with.

Thanks CD.  Just don't look too closely or you might find too many holes in my assertions!  Amateur warrior here.

The other side to it is, Goody may have used some of the zone set ups (slightly more pressure or slightly less / higher / shallower etc) on other occasions and depending on skill level of the opponent it might have worked a treat.  But the same set up then might get picked apart by a highly skilled unit the very next week.

I'm not saying one style/tweak of method is necessarily better and Goody should use this method vs that etc.  But the old saying "horses for courses" might be at play here.  And it would appear SG and the team itself (eg; its ability to adapt in game and learn from past mistakes being a key ingredient to success on the field) ... is now starting to learn from experience that some horses are wet trackers but put them on a good one and...well you get the drift.

[SPC 3,534]

Any footage of this “emotion”?

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

36 minutes ago, SPC said:

Any footage of this “emotion”?

[drysdale demon 4,830]

14 hours ago, deanox said:

It's only a watershed moment for the people who were saying tripe like "he shows no emotion" "he talks in coach speak instead of real terms" etc. 

He hasn't changed. Their perception of him has. 

Well said.

[drysdale demon 4,830]

14 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Things were said. He has taken notice

No doubt some will believe you

[Lucifers Hero 39,609]

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Things were said. He has taken notice

I would not be surprised if Pert read the riot act to Goodwin after the Rich game.  The blowtorch had been brutal that week (and imv unfair).

Also, they get feedback on the public persona of coach and players.  Goodwin's deadpan style had turned people off.  In his press conf since the Rich game he has sounded and looked more energised.  Also, I think it is no coincidence that our team selection and game plan changed after that game. 

This has a very similar vibe to when PJ read the riot act and declared 'the players trashed our brand' post Hawks game 2018..  No public comment about the coach but we all knew where the problem was.  Something happened behind the scenes:  game plan changed, Goodwin stopped the silly experiments of 1) playing without wingman  and 2) playing a lot of players out of position 3) best midfielder used as a tagger when we were being thrashed in the middle etc.

Now similar outcomes post Rich game:  dropped the one tall forward experiment, dropped the experiment where we abandoned our f50 when Geelong had the ball.  Moved to a more conventional team set up.

The change could be the Hub environment but I would bet a penny to a pound 'things were said'.  In 2018 we went on to play in a Prelim.  Lets hope this leads to the same or better result ?

Edited July 19, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

10 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Not denying it, just asking you to back up a claim you made

Are you in contact with those in the Manly Hub or Bartlett or Pert, coz he would only listen to either Richo or those 2, if in fact he has been told at all

Coz if you are not in contact with those 3, you are getting it second hand

Whereas when Chaplin was asked the question, he answered directly to those online

 

I always loved your training reports!  These days it seems like you are all about point scoring against posters.   How are you to know he did not get some information that was highly pertinent?  You think you are the only Melbourne supporter out there in close enough proximity to get privileged information from a club source? Your source is a public one where Chaplin told other members and you think that honestly has more validity? Sorry to get involved her but these type comments from you are really tiring. You are adding nothing.

[jnrmac 20,055]

11 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Not from wear i'm sitting CDP.  Goody has been experimenting with a variation of the rolling zone (loose to tight variants) and the high press (half press and somewhat higher press, no spare out the back, a spare out the back etc) since 666 came in last season.

 

I think he has Nev playing a different role as well with Lockhart doing the locking down. Nev is a bit freer to do creative things and be a 'general'

The backline are clearly working better together.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

29 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think he has Nev playing a different role as well with Lockhart doing the locking down. Nev is a bit freer to do creative things and be a 'general'

The backline are clearly working better together.

Yes now that you mention it i did notice Nev running up the ground a few times and making a few plays Jnr.

That makes sense and hopefully freshen him up a little from playing that on the shoulder type role as you say.  He has a lovely kick on him so why not free him up a bit more and use it in more dangerous positions.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

2 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

No doubt some will believe you

Keep your head in the sand Dry...

”nothing to see here”

[old55 23,412]

10 hours ago, A F said:

It's essentially Richmond's game plan with a bit of 2018 Melbourne thrown in. We're finally seeing the plan A and B. The ability to play tempo when necessary. But the zone we played today was a high press, but then it had about a 20m gap again between the next reinforcement. We set up beautifully today.

It's definitely built for finals, but unlike Richmond, if Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney get going, it's too much for an opposition to counter and I think if they can find a level of consistency, in many ways we've got a greater ceiling than Richmond. 

What we have lacked that the great Hawthorn sides had and Richmond over the past 3 seasons, is that cleverness and creativeness around the stoppages and the forward half to create scoring chances and keep the ball moving forward. That ability to keep the pressure high on the opposition and capitalise when there's a chance to score. 

This is why I love the inclusion of Kozzie and Bennell, and even Jackson. They're clever, crafty, clean players that have great awareness and if they can stay fit, this will really give us another string to our bow.

Goodwin is a brave innovator.  He thought there was an opportunity in this weird season to select a very pacy dynamic athletic line-up to get the jump on the competition, hence the selection of Hunt and Smith but it didn't work and he's reverted to a more traditional line-up with the talls at both ends - even then he's shown his courage to select Jackson ahead of Brown.

I think the key thing is that with the "Richmond-style" gameplan you need footballers-first to execute because it's frenetic and you need to be able to rely on instinctive skills.  I think athletes like Hunt, Smith and ANB who lack innate football skills are not suited to the style.  We've been blessed/lucky that we have footballers we can bring in like Bennell, Lockhart, Langdon, Hannan, OMac, Weid and the return to desperation in Hibberd.  Of course it helps when you add incredible athletes who can also play the game like Kosi and Jacko.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Fifty-5

[drysdale demon 4,830]

23 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Keep your head in the sand Dry...

”nothing to see here”

yawn

[Fat Tony 5,220]

It wouldn't bother me if Goodwin was watching re-runs of The Simpsons in the box. As long as we win.