On 12/07/2020 at 04:26, Demon Disciple said:

The only way it hurts the perpetrator is in the hip pocket. $50,000 fine (and yes, i'm being serious. If they can't pay then off to prison you go).

And also forced to undergo some kind of education and reconciliation process.  Probably not going to sink through to all of them, but perhaps it will for some and in that way hopefully some kind of progress can be made.

It also needs the mainstream media to take a strong stand and call it out as well.  Channel Nine's reaction to Pauline Hanson's latest jib of racist comments, still lent her an air of legitimacy that she doesn't deserve by only going as far as labeling her statements as divisive and not having the guts to call her our for being the racist bigot that she it.  People like Pauline encourage and give comfort to the faceless racists amoung us and the mainstream media has been giving them a platform for way too long now at the expense of basic decency.

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:01, deanox said:

Even if you don't believe it and you are just trying to get a reaction, by using that language you contribute to the systemic oppression and vilification of the target group. 

You signal to others that it is ok to speak or act that way or believe those things, even just in secret.

You signal to that group that they need to be on the look out for attacks. 

That makes it racism. It makes them racist. It needs to be called out for what it is. 

well i think you have mischaracterized what i (probably poorly) was thinking

i am just merely saying that there are sociopaths in our midst who are not just racist but probably every other 'ist' you can think of. their motivation is not just racist. without social media as it exists now they would have a more limited way to express their anti-socialism and certainly to a smaller audience.

now to be clear. i am not signalling to anyone  to act in any anti-social way. . I am not trying to get any reaction. And finally i agree it needs to be called out and exposed. I was merely musing about what may be the motivations for such pizzpoor behaviour

i don't understand why having a broader discussion about this type of behaviour gets you so triggered

It is the indigenous players who make AFL the most watchable football code on the planet. Where would we be without Davey, Farmer, Jurrah, Bennell, B. & K. Pickett, Wonameari, Motlop, Jetta, Davey, Whelan, Charles, Garlett, Francis, Lovell, Bamblett, Chisholm, et al? Nobody would bother watching Melbourne. Same goes with other Clubs (krakouer, Matera, Franklin, McLeod, Muir, O’Loughlin, Rioli(s), Wanganeen, Winmar, Wingate, et al. ?

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:41, Demonland said:

Don't your dare equate the unacceptable and abhorrent racial abuse leveled at indigenous people & people of colour to the names that you have been called. Many times you have baited posters on here and you have been given a lot more protection than others. 

I have discussed this with you privately and yet you continually take a swipes at me and the mods. 

Please don't let this thread get derailed by inserting yourself into a serious issue which has nothing to do with you. 

Demonland.com strongly condemns racism in all its forms. 

Comments like the one on the AFL's Twitter would have been dealt with promptly and the poster immediately banned. 

I am not inserting myself, the point I am making is unless there are serious consequences to perpetrators of hate , in any form, racism being one of the more prominent, the behaviour will continue unabated

This issue has a lot to do with me, not only do I have family, friends and acquaintances who have been racially vilified hence my abhorrence,I it has also been aimed at Nev more than once in the ten  years I have proudly worn his number on my back

So please don't lecture me on  how important it is to stamp out racism

 

 

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by Satyriconhome

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:41, Demonland said:

Don't your dare equate the unacceptable and abhorrent racial abuse leveled at indigenous people & people of colour to the names that you have been called. Many times you have baited posters on here and you have been given a lot more protection than others. 

I have discussed this with you privately and yet you continually take a swipes at me and the mods. 

Please don't let this thread get derailed by inserting yourself into a serious issue which has nothing to do with you. 

Demonland.com strongly condemns racism in all its forms. 

Comments like the one on the AFL's Twitter would have been dealt with promptly and the poster immediately banned. 

Hallelujah! Praise unto you Sir Andy!

pointless making laws because unless it's a global application of law it's very easy to create a false papertrail using a vpn and secure connection.

my honest opinion is probably a bit controversial but we keep giving voice to fake profiles that are created for the sake of causing controversy. they are digital arsonists. we are chasing ghosts. telling the broader community that it's "not ok" to say racism is society's "well duh!" moment, like when people saying, "Rape is never okay". You don't say?

stop publicing fake egg profiles. the people that do this [censored] are having a larf because they know they'll never be caught.

Organisations would be better served to hire online moderators and community managers to immediately delete and block these profiles.

I just find it strange that we keep publicing and talking about fake social media profiles. I've worked in the online media and social media space for a decade, it's unfortuante but the reality is that amplification of the message only adds fuel to the fire. It really is best to just hide/delete and bury, and shape the narrative of the community yourself. Otherwise it's futile.

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by praha

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:41, Demonland said:

Don't your dare equate the unacceptable and abhorrent racial abuse leveled at indigenous people & people of colour to the names that you have been called. Many times you have baited posters on here and you have been given a lot more protection than others. 

I have discussed this with you privately and yet you continually take a swipes at me and the mods. 

Please don't let this thread get derailed by inserting yourself into a serious issue which has nothing to do with you. 

Demonland.com strongly condemns racism in all its forms. 

Comments like the one on the AFL's Twitter would have been dealt with promptly and the poster immediately banned. 

Brilliantly well said, more of this thanks ???

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by dazzledavey36

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:52, CBDees said:

It is the indigenous players who make AFL the most watchable football code on the planet. Where would we be without Davey, Farmer, Jurrah, Bennell, B. & K. Pickett, Wonameari, Motlop, Jetta, Davey, Whelan, Charles, Garlett, Francis, Lovell, Bamblett, Chisholm, et al? Nobody would bother watching Melbourne. Same goes with other Clubs (krakouer, Matera, Franklin, McLeod, Muir, O’Loughlin, Rioli(s), Wanganeen, Winmar, Wingate, et al. ?

Its always given me the s..... that some supporters love their indigenious lads and then spew vile at other Clubs players and the Indigenous community outside the AFL. It is the indigenous lads who bring a smile to the face of supporters more than any other group. Imagine the impact indigenous people would have had on Australia is they had always been treated with dignity.

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:53, Satyriconhome said:

I am not inserting myself, the point I am making is unless there are serious consequences to perpetrators of hate , in any form, racism being one of the more prominent, the behaviour will continue unabated

This issue has a lot to do with me, not only do I have family, friends and acquaintances who have been racially vilified hence my abhorrence,I it has also been aimed at Nev more than once in the ten  years I have proudly worn his number on my back

So please don't lecture me on  how important it is to stamp out racism

 

 

You are not in any way related to Nev or have any family link directed to his family, blood or extended. You're a fan supporter and that's it.

To think you have some idea what Nev and his family go through when they've copped copped racism throughout his career is just simply wrong.

As a pacific islander who moved to this country as an 8 year and someone who copped a bit of racism in high school, I still don't fully understand what our proud indigenous Australians feel when they are exposed to this kind of rubbish. I've played footy with many great indigenous brothers who's family have been part of the stolen generation (Jetta's family also) which to this day still effects them significantly. None of us will never fully understand that.

I hope Harley and his family okay and I'm proud of my football club for getting straight on the front foot.

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by dazzledavey36

After years of education and constant media reminders of the need to behave in a social and a whole of community minded manner those that still engage in this sort of behavior are obviously not quite right - for various reasons i will not go into. Its a reminder that there is still a way to go and those breaking the law should be punished.

A white bloke claiming to understand the lifelong impact of systemic racism is like blokes saying they understand child birth. They don’t. We don’t. We can’t possibly.

Be an ally, be compassionate, and call out racism, sexism, and all the other isms, but don’t say you understand it. You don’t.

Please attempt to keep this serious issue on topic and for it not to devolve into personal attacks on posters.

My beef with Saty stems from there needing to be a clear distinction between racism (and other isms) and criticism & discussions on forums like this relating to the performance of the club both on and off the field.

Racism (and other isms) are simply not tolerated here. This also includes libelous comments aimed at public figures. I take pride in our moderation team to ensure that any such comments are dealt with swiftly. We are very proactive in this regard and deal with offenders appropriately.

When it comes to critiques of the club on and off the field we allow people discuss the issues and give their opinions and prefer that any criticism be constructive. We discourage the playing of the man and not the ball and of course outright personal attacks on the character of public figures is not acceptable either.

At times, particularly when emotions are high, anonymous posters can get stuck into each other when their opinions, right or wrong, differ. Obviously we discourage this behaviour too and attempt to moderate it as best we can but these type of arguments cannot in any way be equated to what Harley and other indigenous people go through publicly.

I don't bring this up for here for discussion as this is not the issue we are discussing.

Please attempt to keep on topic. This is a serious social issue and we should be calling out abhorrent behaviour wherever we see it. 

 

Let’s not let a distraction distract from the issue. I feel for HB after what has been an inspiring story for himself and his family this season. 

What is wrong with some people. 
 

Seriously there is no need for this type of lowlife scum behaviour. 
 

Just grow the [censored] up. 

  On 12/07/2020 at 05:37, Nasher said:

A white bloke claiming to understand the lifelong impact of systemic racism is like blokes saying they understand child birth. They don’t. We don’t. We can’t possibly.

Be an ally, be compassionate, and call out racism, sexism, and all the other isms, but don’t say you understand it. You don’t.

Mate, this is bollocks. And it is racist and sexist. Look what you have said - a male human with white skin is fundamentally incapable of understanding X.

[censored].

I have been living overseas for eighteen years, nine years in one major civilisation and the other nine in another, and the news is not good in terms of racism. The rest of the world -- I mean, not the Western world -- is committed to racist thinking. Racism is an issue only in Western societies. We are trying to do something about it. In the rest of the world people don't even recognize it, or, if they do, they don't say anything about it because that would be to upset the apple cart and you get persecuted for that.

In the societies in which I have lived, I have been excluded from political power, from employment, from welfare because of my whiteness. I have been told that when females see me coming down the street, they see their rapist. I could go on. It has been assumed that I am a Christian. It has been assumed that I want to take over the world, to kill people of a particular religion. I am not joking.

The longer I live overseas, the better Australia seems. Every time I go back I am astonished at how unracist it is. This in no way excuses the person who vilified Harley -- I mean, [censored] grow up, [censored] -- but bigotry and prejudice exist everywhere, and targeting particular groups such as white males with equivalent bigotry and prejudice isn't going to help Harley. It just makes those people feel persecuted, and they will fight back against that, as they are.

The simple solution in a case like online vilification of Harley is that everybody who signs up to use social media has to have valid ID attached to their account.

  

  On 12/07/2020 at 06:23, Grr-owl said:

In the societies in which I have lived, I have been excluded from political power, from employment, from welfare because of my whiteness.

Do you have specifics here? Would be interested to hear where exactly you've experienced that.

  

  On 12/07/2020 at 06:23, Grr-owl said:

Mate, this is bollocks. And it is racist and sexist. Look what you have said - a male human with white skin is fundamentally incapable of understanding X.

Every time I go back I am astonished at how unracist it is.

Reckon you just defeated your own point here mate.

  On 12/07/2020 at 06:23, Grr-owl said:

Mate, this is bollocks. And it is racist and sexist. Look what you have said - a male human with white skin is fundamentally incapable of understanding X.

What am saying is that nobody, of any skin colour, gender or heritage can fully understand life-long difficulties that they haven’t personally lived. Furthermore, claiming that they can actually diminishes the experience of those that have. I’m a compassionate person and I can validate the experiences of others and sympathise with it, but I can’t speak for it. 

If you think that’s racist and sexist then you’ve interpreted my post in a way I can’t really comprehend, so I am going to leave it there.

James W. Ferguson needs a long massage with a Cheese grater. 
 

Australia is a most Racist Country. Almost apartheid, but we don’t like talking about it

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:46, daisycutter said:

well i think you have mischaracterized what i (probably poorly) was thinking

i am just merely saying that there are sociopaths in our midst who are not just racist but probably every other 'ist' you can think of. their motivation is not just racist. without social media as it exists now they would have a more limited way to express their anti-socialism and certainly to a smaller audience.

now to be clear. i am not signalling to anyone  to act in any anti-social way. . I am not trying to get any reaction. And finally i agree it needs to be called out and exposed. I was merely musing about what may be the motivations for such pizzpoor behaviour

i don't understand why having a broader discussion about this type of behaviour gets you so triggered

DC, having read your post I was a bit confused and then having read mine again I think I am to blame for some ambiguity, and as such apologise: I was not meaning to suggest that you were signalling. I was referring to "you" the troll. I probably should have said "they" and for clarity I have edited my original post. Can you please let me know if it makes more sense now?

However I really dont understand your last paragraph. What about my post implied triggered or not being part of the discussion? I felt I added to the discussion by not allowing it to be excused as "not really racist, just trolling". However, if you want to discuss further why racists think they can hide behind "trolling", the same way people have hiden their privately held discriminatory beliefs behind "its just a joke" for decades, we can!

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by deanox

  On 12/07/2020 at 06:47, Sir Why You Little said:

Almost apartheid, but we don’t like talking about it

Yes. We're just complete racial segregation away from apartheid. So close I can taste it...

  On 12/07/2020 at 06:49, deanox said:

DC, having read your post I was a bit confused and then having read mine again I think I am to blame for some ambiguity, and as such apologise: I was not meaning to suggest that you were signalling. I was referring to "you" the troll. I probably should have said "they" and for clarity I have edited my original post. Can you please let me know if it makes more sense now?

However I really dont understand your last paragraph. What about my post implied triggered or not being part of the discussion? I felt I added to the discussion by not allowing it to be excused as "not really racist, just trolling". However, if you want to discuss further why racists think they can hide behind "trolling", the same way people have hiden their privately held discriminatory beliefs behind "its just a joke" for decades, we can!

thanks for clarifying that deanox. i did confuse the you as me and not they (confusing sentence that - lol)

your clarification makes much more sense in light of that. I thought you had misinterpreted my previous post and had a crack at me.

all is good

  On 12/07/2020 at 05:26, dazzledavey36 said:

You are not in any way related to Nev or have any family link directed to his family, blood or extended. You're a fan supporter and that's it.

To think you have some idea what Nev and his family go through when they've copped copped racism throughout his career is just simply wrong.

As a pacific islander who moved to this country as an 8 year and someone who copped a bit of racism in high school, I still don't fully understand what our proud indigenous Australians feel when they are exposed to this kind of rubbish. I've played footy with many great indigenous brothers who's family have been part of the stolen generation (Jetta's family also) which to this day still effects them significantly. None of us will never fully understand that.

I hope Harley and his family okay and I'm proud of my football club for getting straight on the front foot.

Unfortunately on this occasion you are sadly wrong and to use this topic as a way of again trying to demean me says more about you than me

During the past ten years, after training, functions, online etc I have had many a discussion with Nev about racism, also discussed the issue with Nev Snr and Lynette, Matty Whelan and Indigenous acquaintances and work colleagues

This was on my part to gain a greater understanding of the issues faced by not only Indigenous players, but the greater indigenous community and the impact it has  

So I could offer my support in whatever way I could, which included attending the March a few weeks back

The Noongar word I have on my jumper is chosen by Nev, not me, to reflect what he wants me to represent, last season was Family, this year is Knowledge

You also don't have to be Indigenous to experience racism, as you have found yourself and I have witnessed first hand and experienced both here and overseas

Unfortunately Australia likes  to think that there is no racism, which is wrong

 

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by Satyriconhome

 

  On 12/07/2020 at 02:58, Lucifer's Hero said:

Shocked that the AFL hasn't already done this on behalf of all clubs and really all sports. 

  On 12/07/2020 at 03:03, Lord Nev said:

I'm pretty sure they have been mate. Seem to remember Gil pushing the issue with Government and social media companies and the AFL integrity unity is involved in these cases now.

The AFL have really led from the front on this, and are not afraid to make examples of high profile people to make a point. If someone with a high profile, closely connected to the AFL, were (say on broadcast radio) to compare a player or ex-player to a giant ape, for example, then they would come down so hard and fast that ............................ hmm, let me rethink that one.

 

  On 12/07/2020 at 03:42, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Wtf is wrong with people

That is the great imponderable.

I had thought for years that individuals that people could admire, like Muhammad Ali, Viv Richards ... Andrew McLeod ... Usain Bolt ... make up your own list ... would help afflicted individuals learn that they can respect people who are "not like them", but unfortunately, I have had to conclude that there is no helping some people. Which is a sad reflection on us as a society. I hope to be proved wrong one day.

 

  On 12/07/2020 at 04:03, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Time for social media companies to take some accountability for this mess (pardon the pun).

They have magicked themselves into a time and place where they can hold plenty of power, but they shirk all responsibility. Their recent pitiful rearguard actions are PR moves and in no way represent any move toward accountability, which is the last thing they want. The basic operating principle is greed.

  On 12/07/2020 at 06:23, Grr-owl said:

Racism is an issue only in Western societies.

Sorry, this is not correct.

If you mean it's only an "issue" (meaning grappling with it) in Western societies, you may be on to something.

But "racism" is rampant around the world, including in Asia, Middle East, Baltic/Salvic countries ... plenty that wouldn't be considered "Western" ... the "not like us" impulse is powerful and universal, and if it's only Western societies that take issue with it, well, more power to them. It's a start.

 

NOTE: on re-reading your original post, I mis-characterised your take. I understand that you see that racism is rampant around the globe.

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by Mazer Rackham

  On 12/07/2020 at 07:35, Mazer Rackham said:

The AFL have really led from the front on this, and are not afraid to make examples of high profile people to make a point. If someone with a high profile, closely connected to the AFL, were (say on broadcast radio) to compare a player or ex-player to a giant ape, for example, then they would come down so hard and fast that ............................ hmm, let me rethink that one.

Talking about different aspects of the issue there though mate.

One is the comment by a club president in his job in the media in 2013. I agree the AFL failed on that one in not only refusing to officially reprimand Eddie, but also holistically in the whole Goodes situation. Gil has admitted as much only recently.

The issue we were talking about was the AFL pressing government and social media companies about accountability for the content they host.

Clearly both fall under racism as a broader topic, but to conflate the two separate things is not addressing the post correctly at all.

Edited July 12, 20204 yr by Lord Nev