On 13/06/2020 at 12:14, ashdemons22 said:

 

We essentially gave up Lachie O'Brien & Liam Stocker for Lever

Not the worst thing ever but still no player is worth that unless they are elite. 

It was the IT thing to do trade two first round picks.

Thought he was okay in first half.

The whole backline was dysfunctional 

May, Lever & Smith all flying for the same ball. Cost us 2 or 3 goals on poor positioning.

There was very little communication happening, even after the first multiple three-person flight to nowhere...

  On 13/06/2020 at 09:03, FireInTheBennelly said:

Spat the dummy because little Mac was dropped? He was ordinary.

Spat the dummy, alright! Imagine how we would have been at half-time if OMac had played ... game over right then. Tom needs to return to the backline - perhaps replacing May or in his accustomed position at CHB, supported by Hore and Rivers on the flanks, with Salem into the forward line; this would release Harmes to be a general utility on key players or across the midline, goal to goal.

  On 14/06/2020 at 03:00, Deemania since 56 said:

Spat the dummy, alright! Imagine how we would have been at half-time if OMac had played ... game over right then. Tom needs to return to the backline - perhaps replacing May or in his accustomed position at CHB, supported by Hore and Rivers on the flanks, with Salem into the forward line; this would release Harmes to be a general utility on key players or across the midline, goal to goal.

hore is injured for half the season and not much chop so that's not going to happen

not to mention t mac's kicking out of the backline...have people forgotten how horrible a ball-user he is coming out of the backline?!??

  On 14/06/2020 at 07:34, whatwhatsaywhat said:

hore is injured for half the season and not much chop so that's not going to happen

not to mention t mac's kicking out of the backline...have people forgotten how horrible a ball-user he is coming out of the backline?!??

Offer him to the Filth, then? As for Hore, he was only used as an example - a player we should retain.

  On 14/06/2020 at 07:55, Deemania since 56 said:

Offer him to the Filth, then? As for Hore, he was only used as an example - a player we should retain.

if lists are reduced to 35 i am not certain that hore would survive the chop

would be borderline

  On 13/06/2020 at 23:29, rjay said:

Why?

He proved yet again he is a poor decision maker & not up to the hype.

It seems his only role is to try and take the mark of this century to keep it in the family.

Frost II.

The problem with Smith is that he doesn't seem to have much of a footy brain.

There was one piece of play where Carlton were going forward and were kicking to, I think, McKay or McGovern on the lead.  Even though the kick to this lead was good, Smith was able to close the distance, effect the spoil and then get the ball when it hit the deck.

Yes, that's just one example among others that were not so flash, but there is something to work with here.  While not much of a kick, he is quick, strong and can play either tall or small.  It's worth persisting with, although we may not have the option to do so right now.

  On 14/06/2020 at 08:04, Wiseblood said:

The problem with Smith is that he doesn't seem to have much of a footy brain.

There was one piece of play where Carlton were going forward and were kicking to, I think, McKay or McGovern on the lead.  Even though the kick to this lead was good, Smith was able to close the distance, effect the spoil and then get the ball when it hit the deck.

Yes, that's just one example among others that were not so flash, but there is something to work with here.  While not much of a kick, he is quick, strong and can play either tall or small.  It's worth persisting with, although we may not have the option to do so right now.

It was McKay, i do remember that bit of play. His closing speed was actually quite remarkable. I think it was in the pocket?

I'm honestly bullish on him. Besides 2 brain fades he actually defended quite well. I feel like he is the type of player that just gets better with each game of experience.

Lets take into account it was his first game since March 2019. Hes come straight in on tje back of no VFL form.

He'll get better.

  On 14/06/2020 at 08:04, Wiseblood said:

The problem with Smith is that he doesn't seem to have much of a footy brain.

There was one piece of play where Carlton were going forward and were kicking to, I think, McKay or McGovern on the lead.  Even though the kick to this lead was good, Smith was able to close the distance, effect the spoil and then get the ball when it hit the deck.

Yes, that's just one example among others that were not so flash, but there is something to work with here.  While not much of a kick, he is quick, strong and can play either tall or small.  It's worth persisting with, although we may not have the option to do so right now.

I hope you're right but all I've seen so far points to another Frost...

lever is just a slower version of frost with more media hype

All anybody needs to know about Jake Lever's contribution to this side is that this was the first win he played in since 2 June 2018. Yes he was injured for part of that time, but he was on a nine game losing streak until Saturday.

He should be embarrassed to be standing Betts or Cunningham whilst Jetta repeatedly had to go up against McKay.

Whatever Lever's skills may be, they don't work in the context of our defensive structure.

  On 13/06/2020 at 10:23, willmoy said:

What the hell was going on in that game on the backline. We all saw it. One clean punch over the line by May. Three prime defenders going all for a mark or was it a punch, totally unclear to who was behind .......err no one.

Carlton were absolutely gobsmacked by the ball being where it should not have been that they bumbled, fumbled and stuffed up the opportunities that went begging........

Rivers a beauty. One game wrapped

More changes to be made. Gotta get this right.

I really think you are being too hard on  a Team that has not payed for twelve weeks. The Club needs to settle its players down and YES there were mistakes Saturday but we need to learn from them and move on. Even Coach Goodwin admitted that.

On a different note I feel that Smith needs to go out and Hibberd needs to come back in. ( Experience counts)

McDonald needs to find his straps otherwise he will be on the outer as well.

As for Rivers, yep, he is going to be good as will Jackson from what I saw from over here live in the USA

I think we are forgetting how good lever was in the rounds leading up to his ACL. 

May, Lever & Smith will take a few rounds to click I think.. 

Lever at his best is an absolute jet. I know the game was sloppy but we did manage to keep a team to 53 points, and nearly goaless for an entire half of footy. I would be more concerned about our forward line structure which needs another tall. We need to play weed, tmac and Jackson with tmac being the deepest forward. 

  On 14/06/2020 at 03:00, Deemania since 56 said:

Spat the dummy, alright! Imagine how we would have been at half-time if OMac had played ... game over right then. Tom needs to return to the backline - perhaps replacing May or in his accustomed position at CHB, supported by Hore and Rivers on the flanks, with Salem into the forward line; this would release Harmes to be a general utility on key players or across the midline, goal to goal.

That is the best suggestion I have heard all year. McD Tom type needs to return to CHB and maybe bring in the Weid at CHF. Either way Smith must go and the experience of Hibberd should return for the Essendon game.

Lever will get better once he and May, Smith and Jetta have played together.  But he was not effective on Saturday and Goodwin will need to see if Lever plays as a key back OR as a 3rd tall intercept defender. His excellent Crows form was the latter. 
We gave up alot for Lever with 2 x 1st round draft picks and so rightly can be asking about his “A” grade status.  

  On 14/06/2020 at 22:34, poita said:

All anybody needs to know about Jake Lever's contribution to this side is that this was the first win he played in since 2 June 2018. Yes he was injured for part of that time, but he was on a nine game losing streak until Saturday.

He should be embarrassed to be standing Betts or Cunningham whilst Jetta repeatedly had to go up against McKay.

Whatever Lever's skills may be, they don't work in the context of our defensive structure.

So you blame Lever for our losses in that period?

  On 14/06/2020 at 22:56, spirit of norm smith said:

Lever will get better once he and May, Smith and Jetta have played together.  But he was not effective on Saturday and Goodwin will need to see if Lever plays as a key back OR as a 3rd tall intercept defender. His excellent Crows form was the latter. 
We gave up alot for Lever with 2 x 1st round draft picks and so rightly can be asking about his “A” grade status.  

SNS, these three and others have trained together across many hours for nearly two years, albeit sometimes (and only sometimes) interrupted due to injuries and other team priorities; they have also played repetitively together in the assembled and well-supported backlines, matches in, matches out  and across elements of matches against many different opponents.

Their performances appear to lack communications and thus, lack coherence and teamwork.

Footy 101 dictates amongst the backline those performances that are known, linked and co-operative with lots of communications that will support and reinforce selected plays and roles. It is almost as if these players are alienated from one another at the present moment.

This should not occur. Given that the game is not rocket science and there have been many, many outstanding deep backlines across decades of footy that got it down pat, variable and effective - why do they not learn to play and re-kindle increasingly efficient and effective core routines as links in a chain that pulls together? Arrogance, me thinks, leaving Jetta to wear the yoke of the opposing giants as seen in the match against Carlscum on Saturday. 

  On 14/06/2020 at 22:50, Ohio USA - David said:

That is the best suggestion I have heard all year. McD Tom type needs to return to CHB and maybe bring in the Weid at CHF. Either way Smith must go and the experience of Hibberd should return for the Essendon game.

At the moment Tmac cannot play back. He is simply too slow and heavy. People worry about Omac's pace. Well he would beat his brother in a sprint.  

And it is well worth remembering why he went forward in the first place. He was close to being dropped because down back he was a shockingly unreliable kick (who seemed to want always test that by taking risky options). Worse that Frost.

He needs to be dropped. Bring Weed in.

  On 15/06/2020 at 00:20, binman said:

At the moment Tmac cannot play back. He is simply too slow and heavy. People worry about Omac's pace. Well he would beat his brother in a sprint.  

And it is well worth remembering why he went forward in the first place. He was close to being dropped because down back he was a shockingly unreliable kick (who seemed to want always test that by taking risky options). Worse that Frost.

He needs to be dropped. Bring Weed in.

He absolutely needs to be dropped, either Weed or Petty will offer more at the moment. Even Brown. But I'm not up with what's happening at Casey... will there be seconds games for McDonald to play in and find some form? 

  On 14/06/2020 at 22:48, GCDee said:

I think we are forgetting how good lever was in the rounds leading up to his ACL. 

May, Lever & Smith will take a few rounds to click I think.. 

Lever at his best is an absolute jet. I know the game was sloppy but we did manage to keep a team to 53 points, and nearly goaless for an entire half of footy. I would be more concerned about our forward line structure which needs another tall. We need to play weed, tmac and Jackson with tmac being the deepest forward. 

Tell me more about him being an absolute jet. when exactly

  On 14/06/2020 at 22:48, Ohio USA - David said:

I really think you are being too hard on  a Team that has not payed for twelve weeks. The Club needs to settle its players down and YES there were mistakes Saturday but we need to learn from them and move on. Even Coach Goodwin admitted that.

On a different note I feel that Smith needs to go out and Hibberd needs to come back in. ( Experience counts)

McDonald needs to find his straps otherwise he will be on the outer as well.

As for Rivers, yep, he is going to be good as will Jackson from what I saw from over here live in the USA

Feel free to call him  "Ohio if you like"

again, we coughed up alot for him, he has done nothing to suggest it was a good price to pay. i keep hearing about his leadership.. yet to really see that influence a game either.. in fact i will go as far as to say, its been a bust to this date. Hope it gets going.

  On 15/06/2020 at 00:33, Luther said:

He absolutely needs to be dropped, either Weed or Petty will offer more at the moment. Even Brown. But I'm not up with what's happening at Casey... will there be seconds games for McDonald to play in and find some form? 

Only scratch matches. But i don't think it is form as much as fitness and possibly issues still with his feet or similar. He doesn't seem to be able to leap for the ball and is nowhere near as agile as he is when right.

On Lever, for me it is a furphy if we over paid for him. Doesn't matter now. What matters is how he plays going forward.

He is a really good player but as i have said a number of times poor on one one. His one wood is being an excellent intercept mark and reading the movement of the ball as it comes down field. And that is the role we drafted him for. And that is how we should play him. Forget what we paid for him. If we paid overs so be it. 

There have been some excellent posts on this topic pointing out that the intercept role is dependent on the other defenders all doing their job. And as noted by someone usually requires at least one true lock down defender. This was the model the Crows used when Lever played his best footy, with Thalia as the lock down general being critical to his success.

  On 13/06/2020 at 09:41, Half forward flank said:

Maybe but Lewis was an experience four time medal winner.

yes true, but what impact did Lewis actually have & what did he bring to our club?

 

  On 15/06/2020 at 02:07, Laughing Goat said:

yes true, but what impact did Lewis actually have & what did he bring to our club?

 

Lewis gave us two decent seasons and a third which was less so. Not his fault that no VFL based player could unseat him in that third season.