On 05/07/2020 at 10:17, Deeko2 said:

He wasn’t winning from what I recall however he was running in the strongest running groups.

Its interesting that they got so many miles into his legs. Obviously we need guys fitter but I thought his training would involve more strength and power for contest work and defending one on one.

Ill go on the record and say I was all for recruiting him. He was in the best U/21 team (or whatever that is) a couple times and playing good footy for the Crows. The fact that this “key position” defender wanted to come to our club was amazing in my mind. Couldn’t give a stuff about the price.

Right now he’s a long way off the “key position” player I thought he’d be and is struggling to be in our starting squad.

Id be interested to know what his relationship is like with the playing group. Obviously he came across on big coin and I wonder if that would bother other players - especially when he’s battling at present 

He just guarded grass at adelaide... any crows supporter could tell you he'd struggle 1 on 1

Great depth player. 

  On 05/07/2020 at 10:19, Elegt said:

He just guarded grass at adelaide... any crows supporter could tell you he'd struggle 1 on 1

I just had a google look and saw he was 3 x CHB in the AFLs 22 under the age of 22.

He was obviously never going to be a glove like Talia there but he clearly had talent - even if it was guarding grass.

I wouldn’t be dropping him but I’m very worried about how backward his footy is going.

 

Sadly reading the play is only ok if you can mark it and kick it.. he cant do any at the moment..  Our game plan doesnt help him.. we zone and guard space, which is fine if teh pressure comes from teh midfield and fwd line.. but we turn it over so much between wing and deep forward, teh ball comes out and the opposition has players running everywhere and has time to hit a player on the lead.. its actually mind numbingly stupid tha this is our game plan with teh team we have.

  On 05/07/2020 at 10:23, Deeko2 said:

I just had a google look and saw he was 3 x CHB in the AFLs 22 under the age of 22.

He was obviously never going to be a glove like Talia there but he clearly had talent - even if it was guarding grass.

I wouldn’t be dropping him but I’m very worried about how backward his footy is going.

 

Funnily enough in 2017 I remember he cost Melbourne the spot in the finals as he coughed it up in the last minute resulting in an Adelaide loss

Let's throw him up forward and put T-mac down back. Why the hell not! (Please don't shoot this is a joke)

Should we drop him? Of course not, was he the reason we lost today? No. Would we like to see more? Yes. That's really all there is to it right now.

I do get a little frustrated when people say not to hold what he's earning money wise against him right now. Expectations are higher, fact. But he's not the only reason why we stink right now. 

Needs to lift

  On 05/07/2020 at 10:43, layzie said:

Let's throw him up forward and put T-mac down back. Why the hell not! (Please don't shoot this is a joke)

Should we drop him? Of course not, was he the reason we lost today? No. Would we like to see more? Yes. That's really all there is to it right now.

I do get a little frustrated when people say not to hold what he's earning money wise against him right now. Expectations are higher, fact. But he's not the only reason why we stink right now. 

I actually think bring in Weed and play him at FB, put May at FF or CHF and tadem with T Mac

OMac - Lever same same

I think lever needs to be the third tall. He would be a lot stronger if it was may, omac & him - that’s what he had at Adelaide. Instead it’s may and 191cm smith / lever playing on the second best forward 1v1, not playing him to his strengths. 
I think this is the problems with playing 100 midfielders in a team and not forwards/defenders. Oh well ? 

  On 05/07/2020 at 09:23, DeeZee said:

When you start to think OMac would be a better option than Lever then there definitely is a problem with the way Lever is playing.

Sometimes we play better as a team when we lose the midfield battle,  and start to defend straight away, we link up better this way it seems.   And then we attack from the backline.

But we do struggle to move the ball thru the midfield zone.

Maybe we should win the footy inside at centre bounces,  then come out the back of that contest,  and find a target coming off the back.   Going straight into F50 isn't working.

  On 05/07/2020 at 10:54, Wunders said:

I think lever needs to be the third tall. He would be a lot stronger if it was may, omac & him - that’s what he had at Adelaide. Instead it’s may and 191cm smith / lever playing on the second best forward 1v1, not playing him to his strengths. 
I think this is the problems with playing 100 midfielders in a team and not forwards/defenders. Oh well ? 

HE WAS!!!

Smith took Riewoldt, May took Lynch and for the time that Nank or Chol were off - which was a lot pre injury and all of the time after Nank's injury - Lever didn't have a taller opponent at all.

In fact that was part of the problem. He can't keep up with small guys and couldn't get in a position to intercept. 

Teams are not just letting intercept defenders sit down the line like they use to. Especially not with out pressure. If Lever wants to be at more contests then he should play on the best key forwards who draw the ball.

Smith has taken the 2nd tall against Carlton and Richmond, it was only against Geelong that Rohan was deemed more suitable than Esava. And Lever got plenty of chances to intercept against the Cats in a much improved game, then was dreadful today.

 

Good defender. Not great. Not above average. Just good. 

Not worth $600,000+ per year 

Not worth two first round trade picks. 
 

But he’s in red and blue now 

Oscar mcdonald deserves his spot 

  On 05/07/2020 at 10:54, Wunders said:

I think lever needs to be the third tall. He would be a lot stronger if it was may, omac & him - that’s what he had at Adelaide. Instead it’s may and 191cm smith / lever playing on the second best forward 1v1, not playing him to his strengths. 
I think this is the problems with playing 100 midfielders in a team and not forwards/defenders. Oh well ? 

This is definitely a coaching issue here. 

I know they love Smiths versatility, but he should really be competing with Lever or Hibberd for a spot, and May and Omac should have the 1 and 2 defenders. 

I don't think we can play 3 of Lever, Smith and Hibberd. And there's a 4th in Rivers (who is playing Hibberds "role" too).

But I don't think the defenders are where we are losing games.  That's on the mids.

  On 05/07/2020 at 13:08, deanox said:

This is definitely a coaching issue here. 

I know they love Smiths versatility, but he should really be competing with Lever or Hibberd for a spot, and May and Omac should have the 1 and 2 defenders. 

I don't think we can play 3 of Lever, Smith and Hibberd. And there's a 4th in Rivers (who is playing Hibberds "role" too).

Totally agree with this. And we have the same issue in the forward line as well. 

That is 100% on the coach and the selectors.

  On 05/07/2020 at 13:08, deanox said:

This is definitely a coaching issue here. 

I know they love Smiths versatility, but he should really be competing with Lever or Hibberd for a spot, and May and Omac should have the 1 and 2 defenders. 

I don't think we can play 3 of Lever, Smith and Hibberd. And there's a 4th in Rivers (who is playing Hibberds "role" too).

But I don't think the defenders are where we are losing games.  That's on the mids.

I agree 'dnx'.

Use Smith,  who i trust will improve as the 2nd or 3rd tall.  Keep him back,  and move Lever out.

Put Lever up front, to be the new ideas man. directing the forwards.  We've got no on-field brains up there,  and TMc is a forward with a defenders head.

 

Allow Lever to have a crack at being the boss of the 'F' troops.

 

Lever needs to get back to basics, start by actually having an opponent and winning some contests, simply just defend. 

Saw some daming footage of Levers lazy effort on the weekend from On The Couch.

Wowee, if you want to make a statement, then dropping this bloke would be my first option. It won't happen, but this bloke is a true definition of what Ox said today, and that just a bloke who only came to this club on a decent fat contract only.

 

  On 06/07/2020 at 10:46, dazzledavey36 said:

Saw some daming footage of Levers lazy effort on the weekend from On The Couch.

Wowee, if you want to make a statement, then dropping this bloke would be my first option. It won't happen, but this bloke is a true definition of what Ox said today, and that just a bloke who only came to this club on a decent fat contract only.

 

er, except ox said that lever has exactly the sort of attitude he WANTS:

“They recruit some blokes who are looking for a pay check, and they recruit some blokes who are escaping for some reason from the other clubs,’’ he said. “I’d like some players to put their hand up like Jake Lever did and say, ‘I want to come because I believe something special is happening’, not because financially they’re going to be better off.

“I want people to come to the footy club because it’s a great club to go to, not because it’s going to service their needs.

“That’s what Hawthorn does, players choose to go to Hawthorn. People don’t choose to go to Melbourne, players go to Melbourne because they haven’t got another choice.’’

Lewis made a good comment on Lever, shifting the blame for his non-efforts which were due to lack of communication from Smith. Watching back on the footage shown on 360 he raises a fair point. 

  On 05/07/2020 at 10:23, Deeko2 said:

I just had a google look and saw he was 3 x CHB in the AFLs 22 under the age of 22.

He was obviously never going to be a glove like Talia there but he clearly had talent - even if it was guarding grass.

I wouldn’t be dropping him but I’m very worried about how backward his footy is going.

 

He may have been but he never played CHB at AFL level. Distorted selection.

  On 06/07/2020 at 10:52, whatwhatsaywhat said:

er, except ox said that lever has exactly the sort of attitude he WANTS:

“They recruit some blokes who are looking for a pay check, and they recruit some blokes who are escaping for some reason from the other clubs,’’ he said. “I’d like some players to put their hand up like Jake Lever did and say, ‘I want to come because I believe something special is happening’, not because financially they’re going to be better off.

“I want people to come to the footy club because it’s a great club to go to, not because it’s going to service their needs.

“That’s what Hawthorn does, players choose to go to Hawthorn. People don’t choose to go to Melbourne, players go to Melbourne because they haven’t got another choice.’’

Maybe said that, all the while asking a hefty price to play.

I feel like one of the issues with Lever is having Smith in defense as well. Smith isn't a Key Position Defender, if he is any kind of defender it is a floating intercept marker and that is the role that Lever plays. I feel like this creates confusion between them. For me, and I'm sure there will be many who disagree, but I feel our defensive set up makes a lot more sense with having OMac is the line up as the second tall behind May as the key defender.

I feel like this creates clarity behind each role, rather than confusing who should be going up for the intercept and who should be providing the foil on the forward.

  On 08/07/2020 at 11:31, Pates said:

I feel like one of the issues with Lever is having Smith in defense as well. Smith isn't a Key Position Defender, if he is any kind of defender it is a floating intercept marker and that is the role that Lever plays. I feel like this creates confusion between them. For me, and I'm sure there will be many who disagree, but I feel our defensive set up makes a lot more sense with having OMac is the line up as the second tall behind May as the key defender.

I feel like this creates clarity behind each role, rather than confusing who should be going up for the intercept and who should be providing the foil on the forward.

How is this so confusing for Lever? Smith is the one actually taking the 2nd best defender. Same as what Omac would be playing.

In fact if anything, Smith has had to sacrifice his normal role as that 3rd floating defender to become the lock down 2nd tall defender to continue to allow Lever to still play his usual 3rd tall intercept role.

Smith had Jack Riewoldt all game. Lever just played in no man's land as he has done so far this year.

Annoys me that people are still finding excuses to justify his poor form. Sometimes players have to adapt to slight change in role and Lever and just own it. 

He is far better then the [censored] he is currently dishing up.

 

Edited July 8, 20204 yr by dazzledavey36

  On 08/07/2020 at 12:05, dazzledavey36 said:

How is this so confusing for Lever? Smith is the one actually taking the 2nd best defender. Same as what Omac would be playing.

In fact if anything, Smith has had to sacrifice his normal role as that 3rd floating defender to become the lock down 2nd tall defender to continue to allow Lever to still play his usual 3rd tall intercept role.

Smith had Jack Riewoldt all game. Lever just played in no man's land as he has done so far this year.

Annoys me that people are still finding excuses to justify his poor form. Sometimes players have to adapt to slight change in role and Lever and just own it. 

He is far better then the [censored] he is currently dishing up.

To be clear I'm not excusing his sub par performances. What you have said at the end there is exactly what I believe. The reason why I bring up Smith is that I felt we were a lot better balanced as a defensive unit with Oscar and May as our two tall defenders, and the way that Smith has come into the team (albeit Smith has improved in his role lately) Smith would run off his man too often and end up being the third one up and spoil Lever. I point this out because it may have affected AT TIMES Lever's decision on where to position himself for contests.

This speaks more to the lack of trust and cohesion within the back 3 rather than Lever's form itself which hasn't been good enough. He also doesn't seem to have as much confidence about going for intercept marks instead choosing the kill the ball by punching it, again this to me points to a low confidence in the whole unit because he's worried one of his own teammates might spoil his mark attempts. 

He needs to be better than what he's doing, and the defensive unit as a whole needs to function better.