Below is a chart of the average kick to handball ratio of AFL players who have played over 100 games in recent times.  (Thanks to the great work by Tony Corke @MatterofStats)

Clarry has only played 83 games so does not appear on the original chart, but I have added him in to give us all a sense of his relative kick to handball ratio:

 

 

Looking at the names in that outlier group, I'm comfortable with the company he is keeping.

He's not a bad kick, generally, so nothing wrong with picking up three or four more kicks a game and becoming the undisputed best midfielder in the game.

 

  On 06/06/2020 at 07:16, Blind_turn said:

Below is a chart of the average kick to handball ratio of AFL players who have played over 100 games in recent times.  (Thanks to the great work by Tony Corke @MatterofStats)

Clarry has only played 83 games so does not appear on the original chart, but I have added him in to give us all a sense of his relative kick to handball ratio:

 

 

Someone is obviously missing their footy.  While Clarry probably should retain and kick a bit more it's easy to forget how good he is at clearing space with a handball.

Needs to flatten the handball curve.

He has been told that if he wins the footy at a stoppage to put on the jets and use the footy more by foot. 

nice chart very insightful 

Consider that he has an ave kick per game that is near the median, but his hand balling Ave is so far off the charts.  What a freak (in a good way).  

Kick, handball. Kick, handball. That is the eternal quandary.

Let the ball gatherer decide especially as Clarrie wins most of his possessions in close with limited room to move. He is so good at winning the ball that it is incumbent on his coaches and teammates to learn play to his strengths, not some arbitrary ratio of kicks, handballs.

Successful teams in the past  played off their strong players, eg Williams and Mitchell. And Clarrie is a better ball gatherer than either under pressure.

What a great diagram. For the life of me, I cannot see Diesel Williams. Where is he?

 

Also, on Clarry - I like it when he kicks... there is a gut feel that kicking is more productive. Clarry can get purchase for sure, but if he bombs it into the forward line (as more than likely he would be under pressure) - and it rebounds.. perhaps its not as productive.

Mind, perhaps he just handballs it, and merely passing the buck on who would 'bomb it in' for a rebounded goal anyway... 

I agree with you tiers - I'm not being critical of Clarry.

He knows, the coaches know and we all know that he can be an even more damaging player if he kicks a little more.

Hopefully that will come with more experience and players giving him a chop out.

What it does highlight (again we all intuitively know this already) is that we need more classy outside finishers to feed off the likes of Clarry, Viney and even Brayshaw. 

 

Hi Mr Onion,

I can't immediately answer the Greg Williams question.

As for whether he or someone else bombs it in - I suspect most of us ponder whether its our forward line structure as opposed to any great shortfall in the players delivering it into the 50.

That is probably one of the thing I miss about not going to the footy at the moment - it is only live that you can observe how the better teams set up. Even when the footy's back on TV you cannot look forward of the play to try and get that insight.     

 

  On 07/06/2020 at 06:33, Engorged Onion said:

What a great diagram. For the life of me, I cannot see Diesel Williams. Where is he?

 

He was the first player I looked for on the chart too

  On 07/06/2020 at 07:36, Roger Mellie said:

He was the first player I looked for on the chart too

career had to start after jan 1980 according to chart header

i would think diesel kicked it a lot more in the last few years of his career when he was a forward target as much as he was a midfielder

if you compare their careers:

 

as opposed to at the same age:

Edited June 7, 20204 yr by whatwhatsaywhat

  On 07/06/2020 at 05:17, buck_nekkid said:

Consider that he has an ave kick per game that is near the median, but his hand balling Ave is so far off the charts.  What a freak (in a good way).  

Yes and no, how many times does he get a 2nd handball in a passage of play because he didn't kick it initially or did a 2 meter handball to a player under the pump? His disposals are inflated due to his over handballing.

The outliers on the right side of that graph are the best current midfielders. Getting the ball out of traffic and handballing it to players outside is what they do that makes them good.

  On 07/06/2020 at 06:33, Engorged Onion said:

What a great diagram. For the life of me, I cannot see Diesel Williams. Where is he?

 

Also, on Clarry - I like it when he kicks... there is a gut feel that kicking is more productive. Clarry can get purchase for sure,     but if he bombs it into the forward line (as more than likely he would be under pressure) - and it rebounds.. perhaps its not as productive.

Mind, perhaps he just handballs it, and merely passing the buck on who would 'bomb it in' for a rebounded goal anyway... 

I'd like to see Gawny hit the ball out a metre further,  rather than at his ankles.   This might allow Oli or others reading the ball,  to hit the ball running and allow our clearances to be more meaningful.

When it's just dropped at Gawny's ankles,  Oli might win plenty,  but he just brushes the ball out,  often behind his head,  to no-one in any damaging way.  Ultimately the ball is hacked out, and puts us under pressure, too often.

 

IF Oli,  or others,  can take the ball while they are moving,  perhaps we could get a clean clearance out and away.?

  On 06/06/2020 at 08:49, Tough Kent said:

He has been told that if he wins the footy at a stoppage to put on the jets and use the footy more by foot. 

This was obvious after he’d played a dozen games. Can hurt teams more and get “advantage “ from his contested footy. He’s little 2 metre handballs do nothing but get a stat or put pressure onto a teammate.  He’s a star and his kicking can cover territory.  It could elevate him to be a true A grader 

Just goes to show how much of a freakish talent claret is, love this guy!

  On 07/06/2020 at 23:28, spirit of norm smith said:

He’s little 2 metre handballs do nothing but get a stat or put pressure onto a teammate.

There seems to some anecdotal evidence to that affect. Would be interesting to see his handballs to free up  a player. One also needs to remember when comparing him with Diesel Williams that 30 possessions a game is now extremely common for a midfielder. The new measure for outstanding is closer to 40.

Both with Gawn and Oliver the coaching staff need to devise tactics to leverage their skills