2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Jeez tough crowd!

I hope Balmey sticks it up all you doubters just to see the Olympic level backpedalling on here by the so called "supporters" of this club. You're all damaged goods.

Or we could just criticize an underperforming coach that is hired by (ie isn't) the club and anyone put in front of a camera to sing their praises. As we wait patiently for the club to make a move on getting in the next Neal Daniher...

 

Edited June 5, 20204 yr by John Demonic

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Jeez tough crowd!

I hope Goodwin sticks it up all you doubters just to see the Olympic level backpedalling on here by the so called "supporters" of this club. You're all damaged goods.

Never happy fickle Dee supporters I sometimes wonder. Goody is  the person to turn it around IMO and  there are enough of us to show the faith.The rest of you can all please yourselves. 

 

I really don't understand the virtiol towards Goodwin.

All actual information and signs are positive:

- He has a reputedly relationship with the players.

- He has shown a real interest in tactical innovation (the "center the ball at all costs because high percentage shots are more valuable" morphed into the 8 man back line running off the square, which became the 4 man diamond defense)

- He has rotated players through positions to try and find a fit (17 players lined up on the wing in 2019).

- He has recruited to fill holes in list/structure (added Tomlinson and Langdon to fill the wings, added Preuss/Brown as forward/ruck depth), probably made the right call on Hogan and got us May, brought in small forwards to compete for spots).

- Other than 2019, every year has been upwards while he has been involved. 

-2019 was documented to be horrible with pre season injuries, and then in season injuries. We sucked, but he regularly had 5-8 of or best 22 injured, it was a tough year. 

 

I understand that after the 2019 disastor we need to bounce back, but damn he gets a lot of hate for someone whose only fault seems to be not having answers during one injury interrupted season.

 

Edited June 5, 20204 yr by deanox

Goodwin received the head coaching gig on a silver platter. Not many assistant coaches receive an initial 5 year deal with the promise of taking the reigns in year 3.

He has a record of 5-19 over the last 24 games and there was absolutely no visible improvement in round 1 in terms of game style, inside 50 entries and defensive accountability. Six months of promised atonement, only for the game to be over at quarter time. The apologists will say that the players were distracted due the impending suspension of the season, but it was still an official game of footy and you can only judge what they dished up.

I think supporters are entitled to go hard at him and ask if he’s the right man to take us forward if we’re no better than 1-4 after round 5 despite playing a bunch of winnable games on paper.

What I did find interesting (though again not particularly surprising) was that both Richo and Chapman were a big rap for Jay Lockhart and Trent Rivers.

59 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

What I did find interesting (though again not particularly surprising) was that both Richo and Chapman were a big rap for Jay Lockhart and Trent Rivers.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Lockhart’s a regular this year.

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Jeez tough crowd!

I hope Goodwin sticks it up all you doubters just to see the Olympic level backpedalling on here by the so called "supporters" of this club. You're all damaged goods.

Jeez. Tough on supporters. we are allowed an opinion, or are you saying we should be yes men. By your reckoning we should have been loyal to every coach for the past 56 years until they were sacked. Happy to be proved wrong and I suspect we will have some good wins in the next two seasons but very concerned he does not have the tactical knowlege to take us all the way.

I think Supporters underestimate the challenges of getting our team to the position of being a regular finals (and then top 4) contender. 
For many, the performance of the coach is gauged by the performance of the team, and thus by win-loss, ladder position and finals. 
On this basis The data on Goodwin is inconsistent, i.e 2018 over performed with first finals we got to the prelim, 2019 massive under-performance... 2020 insufficient (and odd) data. 
For me, when the data is inconsistent or not particularly indicative of direction (ie when we’ve had several seasons mid table), I use other metrics to understand how well we’re going, and how well the coach is going.

And it’s at this deeper level that things get tricky... for example, in 2019 our physical preparation for the season was way behind where is should have been, we were underprepared, not the head coaches direct area, and as a result of the underperformance the conditioning coach was replaced by Burgess, one of the best in the business, from all accounts... 

That’s just one sub-area of team performance management that on deeper inspection was critical in determining our win-loss. And it’s an area that is not Goodwin’s direct responsibility (its Perts and others, and they addressed it really well). 
Deeper inspection, without inherent bias, of our recruiting and trading (team balance, age/talent profiles, managing exits ie Hogan, retirements, etc), our facilities (access to state-of-the-art equipment and processes), etc... all play a role in our win-loss and are only marginally the responsibility of the head coach.

My view is we are ticking up, learning our lessons and improving in many of these areas and these improvements will improve the win-loss as they enable Goodwin to execute his game plan and utilise his relationships and communication with the players on game day to best effect. 
As the wise say “You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear” and in 2019 with the conditioning issues we had, that’s what some on hear were expecting Goodwin to do..

Be happy, as much of the data indicates an improved win-loss is on the cards for 2020.

For example, I love that Bedford and Rivers are coming on as the two players I see them most likely replacing (Jetta and Hubbard) are getting on. It’s good recruitment and gives Goodwin the material to do his job...

Edited June 5, 20204 yr by PaulRB

Gut feel i have is that Goodwin tries too hard to be a bit innovative and stay ahead of the curve, and last year inparticular moved away from just doing the basics of the game well. 

Being innovative is important and all the great coaches are like that but only when the team has the basics of the game absolutely nailed which i don't think this group does yet. 

Hopefully last year was the lesson he needed to learn to take the next step as coach but the spotlight is firmly on him this year, another bad year and i think the club might have to start thinking about if he really is the best long term option. 

 

1 minute ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Gut feel i have is that Goodwin tries too hard to be a bit innovative and stay ahead of the curve, and last year inparticular moved away from just doing the basics of the game well. 

 

 

Spot on.

Reading all the views on Demonland always Provides some entertainment!

without any AFL been getting some of my sport hit by watching Sunderland Til I die series on Netflix. You get to see the season after they were relegated from Premier League to Championship. Early dialogue is on some players don’t want to be here, club is virtually broke, the owner has just stopped pouring millions into the club to by players, and they have a new coach. After 1st match one of the better players out on the town and under the weather gets video taped on a phone naming a few players who aren’t trying and don’t give a stuff! Huge help to the coach!

SUpporters initially go we don’t have the players going to be A very tough season, and haven’t been able to buy any players in the transfer window, only been able to get loan or cast off players, as other clubs are spending big money.

Nearly 3 months in things going badly as predicted, supporters up in arms  going sack the coach! Coach/Manager gets sacked, players confidence shot. New coach with big reputation comes in, loses their only two strikers in the January transfer window and struggle to get any real replacement. Be a miracle if they stay up, hard to win games without strikers.

Demonland is very similar, everything is the coaches fault, players injured, not enough star players, players kick badly, or miss any easy shot after the siren, if we don’t win the flag it’s a failed season!

Many on Demonland would have sacked Hardwick and Richmond would be rebuilding rather than having two flags!

2019 was a crap year, but surgeries pre season and injuries during the season, killed any opportunity. Let’s wait and see what happens in 2020 rather than write off the season after one round! Richardson stated , great getting Melbourne early on last year, as all their midfield group unfit, couldn’t run!

Some of the positives he mentioned:

- elite midfield (Viney actually fit, Petracca much fitter)

- Finally having May & Lever in the field together, excellent communicators 

- Kossie going to be a player

- Rivers kicking and progress
- Run of Tomlinson & Langdon

- Potential of Bennell

- Potential of Smith
- lots to be optimistic about

Go Demons, we start the year seemingly very fit, so no excuses, let’s see how we go! If badly then Goodwin will be in the spotlight!

 

All that counts is WINS! 

24 minutes ago, picket fence said:

All that counts is WINS! 

Rubbish.

What really counts is premierships and what is required to achieve those can be substantially different from just achieving a few wins.

I'm quite happy to write off 2019 given the circumstances, so long as we are building towards sustained success.

I'm also in the camp of sticking with Goodwin and riding it out where ever that takes us.  He's a smart, passionate football guy who has the respect of his team at the same time as demanding high standards of performance on and off the field.  I don't think it would do the team any good for us to become a revolving door of senior coaches.

Time to stick fat as MFC supporters, we have a team loaded with midfield talent that is comming into the prime of it's career.

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Goodwin received the head coaching gig on a silver platter. Not many assistant coaches receive an initial 5 year deal with the promise of taking the reigns in year 3.

He has a record of 5-19 over the last 24 games and there was absolutely no visible improvement in round 1 in terms of game style, inside 50 entries and defensive accountability. Six months of promised atonement, only for the game to be over at quarter time. The apologists will say that the players were distracted due the impending suspension of the season, but it was still an official game of footy and you can only judge what they dished up.

I think supporters are entitled to go hard at him and ask if he’s the right man to take us forward if we’re no better than 1-4 after round 5 despite playing a bunch of winnable games on paper.

I'm not saying he is perfect, and he is definitely yet to prove himself and needs to do that over the distance. 

But 2019 was a massive write off with injuries, and while we need to bounce back and round 1 was disappointing, it's a sample size of 1. With injuries the team hasn't really played together since late 2018. We made big structural changes bringing in the wings. Lever and May haven't played together often.

The coming months will tell us more. But after 1 game critique and question, not roast.

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Rubbish.

What really counts is premierships and what is required to achieve those can be substantially different from just achieving a few wins.

I'm quite happy to write off 2019 given the circumstances, so long as we are building towards sustained success.

I'm also in the camp of sticking with Goodwin and riding it out where ever that takes us.  He's a smart, passionate football guy who has the respect of his team at the same time as demanding high standards of performance on and off the field.  I don't think it would do the team any good for us to become a revolving door of senior coaches.

Time to stick fat as MFC supporters, we have a team loaded with midfield talent that is comming into the prime of it's career.

Successful AFL teams don’t chop and change coaches constantly!

Clarkson first two years were bad and he was criticised, got a flag ahead of schedule in 2008, then another three!

Hardwick after 7 seasons a lot of fans and a supporter group tried overthrow the board, win premiership the next season.

Geelong Bomber Thompson under pressure with coaching review end of 2006 season, goes onto win the 2007 flag.

West Coast Adam Simpson under pressure goes onto win a flag soon after!

Buckley while not winning a flag, had taken Collingwood progressively backwards for 6 years, then gets within one kick of winning a flag, and their likely to be a contender again this year.

admittedly all are big clubs, except Geelong who get one of the best fixtures every year, and also have a salary cap advantage over the 9 other Victorian clubs, plus a major home ground benefit, playing and financial wise!

Goodwin needs sufficient time and the right coaching team around him, Richardson will help. This year may end up being one of the most unpredictable years ever, so progress harder to judge, by end of next season we will see how good he is as a coach.

While winning a flag is the ultimate success, and having supported the Demons for nearly 60 years I’m impatient for a flag, being in position to win a flag for the next 5 years, is the measure of being a good coach, then with a little luck we should win that elusive flag!

 

The measure of a good coach surely is the maximisation of the talent of his list by various means including gameplans etc.

Can anyone really say that Goodwin has done that?

Let's not forget the final round of 2017 which in its own way showed us the measure of this coach. 2018 was a six odd game streak coinciding with amazing not to be repeated form of Brayshaw.

The next four games will tell us but let's not forget the Board who I have no love for has said that finals in 2020 is a must.

14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Jeez tough crowd!

I hope Goodwin sticks it up all you doubters just to see the Olympic level backpedalling on here by the so called "supporters" of this club. You're all damaged goods.

I’ll freely admit that I’ve held much doubt and displeasure in the coach’s performance over the years. But I will also happily eat a slice of the most delicious humble pie on earth if he can take us all the way. 
 

As for calling Melbourne supporters “damaged goods” well....yeah. 

My criticism of what Richardson said was what he didnt say. I wanted to hear, I have worked on a few areas with him and he has been receptive to some of my ideas, others not so much. Presumebly Richardson is their to offer a perspective as a more experienced coach. Back in the real world of our competitors, image supporters of other clubs if a new assistant/coach advisor said he is happy with what he has seen of Clarko or Hardwick. It is laughable. All I want to hear is that as coaches we have the players and the strategy cherry ripe and ready to give a red hot go.

Richo: What do you prefer, attack or defence?

Goody: Dunno, haven't tried either of them.

Edited June 6, 20204 yr by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo

12 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Never happy fickle Dee supporters I sometimes wonder. Goody is  the person to turn it around IMO and  there are enough of us to show the faith.The rest of you can all please yourselves. 

 

I agree. Goodwin was part of a winning culture as a player and seems exremely committed to turning this club around. Not sure where we would look next turning away from him.

And at some point, we might realise that the constant over the last 20+ years has been an inability to get consistent effort from the players. You might say that's the job of the coach, but Roos couldn't do it, nor could Neeld or Bailey or even Daniher in the latter part. It's a part of the clubs fabric and its that that needs to change.

 

4 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Gut feel i have is that Goodwin tries too hard to be a bit innovative and stay ahead of the curve, and last year inparticular moved away from just doing the basics of the game well

 

Agree 100%
 

Last year when we heard that Richo was joining us, I was really unsurprised to be honest. Each and every time Richo was interviewed on AFL 360 or any other show regarding facing up to the demons, he always spoke really kindly of the dees and of goody. It was really fitting to have someone with his talent and experience to join us. So for those that suggest Richos just paying lip service, I’d argue that it’s just in his nature as a true gentlemen which he has already demonstrated prior to joining us.

29 minutes ago, DeezNuts said:

Last year when we heard that Richo was joining us, I was really unsurprised to be honest. Each and every time Richo was interviewed on AFL 360 or any other show regarding facing up to the demons, he always spoke really kindly of the dees and of goody. It was really fitting to have someone with his talent and experience to join us. So for those that suggest Richos just paying lip service, I’d argue that it’s just in his nature as a true gentlemen which he has already demonstrated prior to joining us.

I am sorry DN but, as John kenneddy who created the winning culture at the Hawks that has won them about a dozen flags said," there are only two outcomes in footy, winning or losing and winning is all that counts.  The last thing we need in a coach is to be a gentleman.

"I'm impressed."
– Me, about every boss I've ever had

Clarkson and Dimma were both almost sacked and were hated by their supporters. 

In this thread I have read Goodwin is too innovative and he is also not good enough tactian. 

It just amazes me how negative some people are.