Our previous leadership was like the hierarchy of a disfunctional wanky restaurant.

We had an executive chef, head chef, sous chef, chef de partie, patisserie chef, sauté chef and commis chef lording over the kitchen porters and dishwashers. No wonder the broth spoils and we don’t need too many chefs to fry sausages.

 

Edited February 24, 20205 yr by america de cali

Congrats to Max but I feel for Jack. Ideally the club now settles with the one captain and stops the revolving door. Hopefully the annual leadership vote doesn't lead to changes each year as it will look farcical. Love the two man leadership model. Would have been even better with a deputy vice captain

Like most believe here, a fantastic appointment. Further, his “JLT” comment in the presser and subsequent off the cuff follow up was pure gold - Gil and his corporate jargon speaking clowns must be shaking in their boots. Goody’s face was priceless.

Just love everything about Max!

Max Gawn probably the only captain in recent times to joke about drinking his own urine at the press announcement. 

He's already taking the pizz. 

  On 24/02/2020 at 04:48, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. The Club failed them both and ruined their careers

I disagree. The Club never ruined their careers. The players were in fact not up to being good players deserving of the Captaincy 

Trengrove especially was given every chance to succeed at MFC  as well as at Port where he continued to fail to live up to his ability.

  On 24/02/2020 at 05:42, tiers said:

The  captain should be the on field leader of the team. Not the media darling nor the pr front man for the club. So long as Maxie provides the on field leadership and direction I don't care how he speaks or how entertaining the press conferences are.

Nathan Jones was a great captain who led from the front and whose only weak point was that he could not lift the team in a match. Should we ever get silverware while he is still playing, his hand should be on the trophy together with the captain and the coach.

My hope is that Maxie can add the extra dimension and lead our club to success.

2020

Go dees.

Go Maxie's mob/mates/maulers/mugs/mass/multitude/  - add your own.

Whether you like it or not, being the "media darling" and "pr front man for the club" is what captains have to be today. It's that part of the job description that I didn't think Jones or Viney liked or did particularly well.

And for those people worrying about how Jack Viney might take the demotion (a concern I share), I hope someone sets him up to have a conversation with Sam Mitchell. Mitchell didn't appear to lose his ability, drive or support for the club after the same thing happened to him. To me, that showed real leadership and class.  

  On 24/02/2020 at 22:30, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Whether you like it or not, being the "media darling" and "pr front man for the club" is what captains have to be today. It's that part of the job description that I didn't think Jones or Viney liked or did particularly well.

And for those people worrying about how Jack Viney might take the demotion (a concern I share), I hope someone sets him up to have a conversation with Sam Mitchell. Mitchell didn't appear to lose his ability, drive or support for the club after the same thing happened to him. To me, that showed real leadership and class.  

This should be a challenge for Jack  to take his game to the next level. He is still in the prime of his career with tangible success waiting to be grasped. If losing the captaincy affects him negatively it just proves he was never made of the right stuff to begin with. 

Edited February 24, 20205 yr by america de cali

  On 24/02/2020 at 21:14, Ohio USA - David said:

I disagree. The Club never ruined their careers. The players were in fact not up to being good players deserving of the Captaincy 

Trengrove especially was given every chance to succeed at MFC  as well as at Port where he continued to fail to live up to his ability.

Grimes was clearly affected by both the captaincy and Neeld, he was an extremely promising player who regularly contributed positively under Bailey. Under Neeld and as captain he looked lost and unsure of himself. Never regained his confidence after Neeld’s departure. 

Trenners was also on a positive trajectory and under Bailey was attacking, creative, and young leader. He got the captaincy and Neeld as a coach and all that went away, he was absolutely asked to shoulder too much at a young age. Was a bafflingly bad decision to make him captain. He then got his debilitating foot injury and the rest is history, the club gave him time to recover, which was the right thing to do, but it he lost too much in that time.

I agree with you that they weren’t up to it at the time to be captains, the way they were coached and used by the club contributed to their ruined careers. 

Interesting that Gawn refers to Nibbler as being a leader who can step up.  If nothing else, it just shows how little we (the average punter) know about the players, and what gores on behind the scenes.

 To La DVC

There are very few players with the awareness and intelligence to be good on field leaders. There are plenty of media and pr people at a club to fill the role. Think Maxie before he was made captain.

I want to win games, not hearts, minds and clicks. They will follow if we win games. My first choice was TMac because I have seen his leadership on the field in close games.

  On 24/02/2020 at 23:47, tiers said:

 To La DVC

There are very few players with the awareness and intelligence to be good on field leaders. There are plenty of media and pr people at a club to fill the role. Think Maxie before he was made captain.

I want to win games, not hearts, minds and clicks. They will follow if we win games. My first choice was TMac because I have seen his leadership on the field in close games.

I understand your point but my view has always been that the best captains combine the on-field with the off-field to be the full package. I have assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the captain has more to do off-field than on, such as meeting sponsors, attending club meetings (such as AGMs or Board Meetings as requested) and being the primary conduit from the playing group to the media. The on-field stuff is important, but, unlike cricket, the captain doesn't call the shots but should lead by example. Some of the best captains that I have seen appear to have developed this holistic approach and include Luke Hodge, Nick Reiwoldt and Nick Maxwell.

A good captain has the ability to turn a game by the force of their will, and inspire his team to lift and rally in either his defence and/or inspired by his leadership.

I’m confident Max covers all those aspects.

As others have pointed out, there is no need for Viney to feel bummed about this. He’s gone from being a co-captain amongst a significantly-sized leadership group, to being one of only two people with official leadership-status in the club. Nothing for a tough dude to feel crestfallen over. 

Edited February 25, 20205 yr by Mel Bourne

Congratulations to big Max on being appointed captain ... another notch on the belt and well deserved. In fact,  his appointment is also a reward for the hard-yards that the bloke has put into the club. 

Apparently we don't have an 'official' leadership group to complement Gawn & Viney but I suppose we've decided to go old school.  I've always felt that leadership groups are overrated anyway but to dispense with the concept is really quite surprising. 

I'm also surprised that many here who are all-in on leadership groups are not forthcoming with their former strong views on the subject.  It's a big swing to go the other way.

An add-on deputy vice captain would have been my preferred option but we should get by if both Gawn & Viney can play the large majority of the games.

Edited February 25, 20205 yr by Macca

Max as captain will mean a huge increase in quality of media interviews and PR that AFL skippers have to do. He is natural, funny, direct, uncompromising and most importantly - he can think on his feet. 

I am yet to see how his on-field leadership will go. He has massive boots to fill after Jones and Viney, whose on-field actions were often inspiring and ferocious. Both are warriors. I know they can continue to do it without the title of captain, but can Max do it? The first 8 rounds of the regular season will be very interesting to see how he develops. 

Captain and vice-captain.  Nice and simple.  I like it.   I think sometimes clubs out-think themselves with leadership groups and extended leadership groups. 

Well the club hasn't sat on its hands after the disastrous 2018 - new captain, new senior assistant coach, new fitness manager, 3 new senior recruits (Langdon, Tomlinson, Brown), taken an uncharacteristic but welcome risk with Bennell, traded up to have 2 early first round picks.

Mahoney and Goodwin are the main constants from last year and I appreciate that some here would have had them first out the door.  I don't believe in changing everything at once, you need some continuity and I'm a big believer in Mahoney and Goodwin.  It will be interesting to see how we go - their reputations and jobs are on the line.

to PaulRB

Agree. The best captains can swing the momentum of a game. I recall how Garry would move on to the ball when we were lagging and lift the team by his own effort and leadership. None of our captains since have had this ability.

I hope Maxie has.

 

My one reservation about appointing Max to the skipper-gig is that he's also often our most important player on the field, hence the double Bluey's.  I agree that, from the outside, he comes across as a strong leader and great example on and off the field for the team.  On the other hand, he's the player other teams are most likely to target.

The ideal candidate, IMHO, is a dependable role player who connects well with the team and set a good example but only needs to play a role on the field.  Good examples include Tom Harley (rather than Gary Jnr or Jimmy Bartel in that Geelong team) and Nick Maxwell (rather than Dane Swan).

Based on this logic, I'd probably lean toward Jack Viney though admit that his on-field performance in 2019 was disappointing along with his media skills.

Edited February 25, 20205 yr by Traja Dee
minor typo and a reference to the Blueys

  On 25/02/2020 at 05:21, Traja Dee said:

My one reservation about appointing Max to the skipper-gig is that he's also our important player on the field.  I agree that, from the outside, he comes across as a strong leader and great example on and off the field for the team.  On the other hand, he's the player other teams are most likely to target.

The ideal candidate, IMHO, is a dependable role player who connects well with the team and set a good example but only needs to play a role on the field.  Good examples include Tom Harley (rather than Gary Jnr or Jimmy Bartel in that Geelong team) and Nick Maxwell (rather than Dane Swan).

Based on this logic, I'd probably lean toward Jack Viney though admit that his on-field performance in 2019 was disappointing along with his media skills.

No. After last year we needed a clean page. 

  On 25/02/2020 at 05:21, Traja Dee said:

My one reservation about appointing Max to the skipper-gig is that he's also often our most important player on the field, hence the double Bluey's.  I agree that, from the outside, he comes across as a strong leader and great example on and off the field for the team.  On the other hand, he's the player other teams are most likely to target.

The ideal candidate, IMHO, is a dependable role player who connects well with the team and set a good example but only needs to play a role on the field.  Good examples include Tom Harley (rather than Gary Jnr or Jimmy Bartel in that Geelong team) and Nick Maxwell (rather than Dane Swan).

Based on this logic, I'd probably lean toward Jack Viney though admit that his on-field performance in 2019 was disappointing along with his media skills.

There are a number of teams and Ruckmen who have tried that and 90% of the time it hasn't worked and it just makes Maxy try harder if that's possible. The tactic of jumping into him at every opportunity has been done and at times I think it has had some success. The umpires are very important in stopping this but they don't crackdown on it enough. During one game last year (can't remember which one) Max was taking a beating and the coaches sent Max for a rest in the forward line. It was a game Preuss played in and he started jumping into the opposition ruckman and I think gave away a free kick or two. The tactic stopped. The point is; he is the Captain now and he will lead but the troops and the coaches need to do their part in protecting him.

  On 24/02/2020 at 09:49, america de cali said:

Our previous leadership was like the hierarchy of a disfunctional wanky restaurant.

We had an executive chef, head chef, sous chef, chef de partie, patisserie chef, sauté chef and commis chef lording over the kitchen porters and dishwashers. No wonder the broth spoils and we don’t need too many chefs to fry sausages.

 

No wait staff to deliver the goods to the paying customers? So that's what went wrong! We all went hungry last year. ?

  On 25/02/2020 at 05:46, Sir Why You Little said:

No. After last year we needed a clean page. 

Yes, good point Wyl ... but for me it's nothing personal.  Without looking back on what was last season, sometimes you just just have to re-jig and get going again with a new way of addressing things.

As others have mentioned about a new start for various players,  that rule can apply to any player on the list.

e.g. the aging warrior in Jones,  the young fella in Hunt still trying to find a way and the much-maligned Oscar down back are 3 prime examples.

If all 3 of the aforementioned players shine this year (albeit a long shot) we'll be playing finals again.

Of course, I'm assuming that the improvement or continued 'par excellence' elsewhere with various other players (Gawn,  Oliver,  Brayshaw,  Salem,  Harmes,  Viney et al) should or would happen at the same time for the desired outcome (finals) to come to fruition.

Again,  it's a very big departure to go with just a captain & vc but nonetheless,  it's a ballsy move by the club.

No risk,  no reward.

Edited February 25, 20205 yr by Macca

To tiers,

There's a quote function located on the left-hand side below each post. You can also add an @ symbol before a poster's name to get their attention. Like this @tiers.

Yours sincerely, Skuit.  

My recollection is that the "Leadership Group" concept either arose from or was strongly pushed by that consulting company called Leading Teams. I haven't heard anything about Leading Teams in quite a while. Does it still exist? Do other clubs still use it? And have the methods and ideas of Leading Teams fallen out of favour?