Training Ground?

[Soidee 1,496]

So nothings changed.  The clubs sworn to secrecy….going into season 2023, and the weasel words about members having their own club facilities is all wrapped up in secrecy….BS personified.  This whole saga, and it is a saga, just does not wash with me anymore.

secrecy is another word for….sweet FA is going on.  The club should cut the khrap and be transparent with members.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

Is the oldest, centrally located, owned and managed Club on the planet destined for the ubiquitous burb end??

[old dee 23,872]

17 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Thanks for sharing od.

There is some new info re the venues we have/would consider and its good to get a bit more clarification on the reasons nothing has happened.

Just don't know why the club hasn't shared that publicly as here we are thinking the Board is wedded to the G precinct and relative inactive.

 

As and aside, does anyone know if The Greens hold the balance of power in the Upper House?  That might make it tricky to get a new venue up and running anywhere in Melbourne let alone inner Melbourne.

Just my personal view nothing was said but I just don't see near the G getting up. Development in Docklands is our best chance. We are not taking away current green open space. 

[daisycutter 29,743]

24 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Thanks for sharing od.

There is some new info re the venues we have/would consider and its good to get a bit more clarification on the reasons nothing has happened.

Just don't know why the club hasn't shared that publicly as here we are thinking the Board is wedded to the G precinct and relative inactive.

 

As and aside, does anyone know if The Greens hold the balance of power in the Upper House?  That might make it tricky to get a new venue up and running anywhere in Melbourne let alone inner Melbourne.

the greens and the 2 marijuana members effectively will hold the balance of power in upper house

[BDA 22,896]

3 hours ago, old dee said:

Ok here goes I was rung by a person from the club, not the President or Gary Pert. However they were of some importance and I believe they were well informed and honest. Basically what I have thought for some time appears to be correct and the information provided by Dante is correct. WE are now in a long term situation meaning nothing is going to happen fast. We have little power and are at the mercy of the Government, AFL and MCC. The club is bound to a secrecy agreement that they will not disclose details of  discussions. The reason other clubs are getting money is because they have a site to spend it on. We do not.

They have looked at approx 30 venues within the middle ground of Metro Melbourne and while  they would prefer to be close to the G they will look at any venue that  the  Government brings forward.  He was adamant that the Olympic park Magpies episode would not happen again.

Currently we are using Goschs and Olympic park facilities and Casey. He believes that between the two we have facilities  as good as most of our competitors. The club is committed to both venues for Girls , boys and VFL teams. also said they need both as one venue is not enough for the three operations.  He also said that contrary to popular beliefs the players do not see travelling to Casey as a big problem in fact they enjoy being able to train in privacy. 

While admitting that it would be good to have one home for the whole club he did no believe the current situation was placing us at a disadvantage to other clubs.

Now some of the above you can say well he would say that wouldn't he.

My view is we are some time away from a central home for Players and fans but currently we are not at a disadvantage.I firmly believe it is not for want of trying, there is just currently no spot.

 

So the government is bringing suggested locations to us. Is this how it normally works? Would have thought we identify the location and then engage with stakeholders. I don’t like the fact we are reliant on the government to this degree. What incentive do they have to act promptly or to care at all.

thanks for the intel OD. Sounds like this thread will run and run 

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

Would love to start playing some practice matches and AFLW games on Gosch’s Paddock. What would have to happen to allow that to take place? Currently there are no bathrooms there. I just think we are behind other clubs in having exposure for our AFLW side. In a similar sense, the men’s team playing at Casey for practice matches isn’t ideal. The conditions out there are always putrid. Windy and exposed to the elements. It isn’t convenient for fans. It doesn’t work for family days etc. it would be nice to get more out of Gosch’s, as it’s actually a pretty good site. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

5 hours ago, old dee said:

Ok here goes I was rung by a person from the club, not the President or Gary Pert. However they were of some importance and I believe they were well informed and honest. Basically what I have thought for some time appears to be correct and the information provided by Dante is correct. WE are now in a long term situation meaning nothing is going to happen fast. We have little power and are at the mercy of the Government, AFL and MCC. The club is bound to a secrecy agreement that they will not disclose details of  discussions. The reason other clubs are getting money is because they have a site to spend it on. We do not.

They have looked at approx 30 venues within the middle ground of Metro Melbourne and while  they would prefer to be close to the G they will look at any venue that  the  Government brings forward.  He was adamant that the Olympic park Magpies episode would not happen again.

Currently we are using Goschs and Olympic park facilities and Casey. He believes that between the two we have facilities  as good as most of our competitors. The club is committed to both venues for Girls , boys and VFL teams. also said they need both as one venue is not enough for the three operations.  He also said that contrary to popular beliefs the players do not see travelling to Casey as a big problem in fact they enjoy being able to train in privacy. 

While admitting that it would be good to have one home for the whole club he did no believe the current situation was placing us at a disadvantage to other clubs.

Now some of the above you can say well he would say that wouldn't he.

My view is we are some time away from a central home for Players and fans but currently we are not at a disadvantage.I firmly believe it is not for want of trying, there is just currently no spot.

 

Thanks OD

Of course  the fault is we failed to move twenty years ago.

The MCG precinct was always a pipe dream. Inner city was hard but mid city (20k radius) was possible.

In reality there is no solution now.

Richmond have compromised. Collingwood are doing nothing it seems.

It is what it is.. Just imagine if we had been more powerful in the Junction Oval days.

Casey on the 50k ring is not the solution unfortunately.... we need to be within the 30k ring

As an aside I think Geelong will be the next to establish the modern training facilities. Some land on the Geelong- Ballarat road perhps

[daisycutter 29,743]

1 hour ago, BDA said:

So the government is bringing suggested locations to us. Is this how it normally works? Would have thought we identify the location and then engage with stakeholders. I don’t like the fact we are reliant on the government to this degree. What incentive do they have to act promptly or to care at all.

thanks for the intel OD. Sounds like this thread will run and run 

i don't think od said we need the gov to bring suggested locations to us.

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,965]

13 hours ago, daisycutter said:

the greens and the 2 marijuana members effectively will hold the balance of power in upper house

Maybe we should invite them around for a spliff

[old dee 23,872]

13 hours ago, BDA said:

So the government is bringing suggested locations to us. Is this how it normally works? Would have thought we identify the location and then engage with stakeholders. I don’t like the fact we are reliant on the government to this degree. What incentive do they have to act promptly or to care at all.

thanks for the intel OD. Sounds like this thread will run and run 

I may have worded that incorrectly. The club will look at any site. Have investigated 30+.

[Neil Crompton 5,666]

16 hours ago, old dee said:

Ok here goes I was rung by a person from the club, not the President or Gary Pert. However they were of some importance and I believe they were well informed and honest. Basically what I have thought for some time appears to be correct and the information provided by Dante is correct. WE are now in a long term situation meaning nothing is going to happen fast. We have little power and are at the mercy of the Government, AFL and MCC. The club is bound to a secrecy agreement that they will not disclose details of  discussions. The reason other clubs are getting money is because they have a site to spend it on. We do not.

They have looked at approx 30 venues within the middle ground of Metro Melbourne and while  they would prefer to be close to the G they will look at any venue that  the  Government brings forward.  He was adamant that the Olympic park Magpies episode would not happen again.

Currently we are using Goschs and Olympic park facilities and Casey. He believes that between the two we have facilities  as good as most of our competitors. The club is committed to both venues for Girls , boys and VFL teams. also said they need both as one venue is not enough for the three operations.  He also said that contrary to popular beliefs the players do not see travelling to Casey as a big problem in fact they enjoy being able to train in privacy. 

While admitting that it would be good to have one home for the whole club he did no believe the current situation was placing us at a disadvantage to other clubs.

Now some of the above you can say well he would say that wouldn't he.

My view is we are some time away from a central home for Players and fans but currently we are not at a disadvantage.I firmly believe it is not for want of trying, there is just currently no spot.

 

Thanks OD for this information and your efforts in chasing the Club on this. 

But on reflection of what you’ve been told, I think the only new info here is that we’ve signed some non disclosure agreement with the Govt - although even this has been implied previously by the Pres. The fact that we have looked at 30 inner Melbourne sites is old news - Bartlett and Pert told us this some years ago now, as stage one of the Master Plan study was to identify and rate numerous (30 was mentioned from memory) possible sites - the outcome being that the MCG precinct was the preferred location. Everything else stated is just political fluff in my view - and certainly not new. 

If I recall correctly, one of the key pillars of our “grand plan” for the club was to have started construction of our new home facility by 2022 (23?). As this has obviously changed, surely it is negligent of the Club to not have informed the members that the goal posts have been shifted, particularly given how important a “pillar” this is for our members. A simple statement that does not contravene the ND agreement would have been all that was required. To not have done this is really poor management in my view. 

For what it’s worth, the only reason I can think of for the “long term nature” of this process is that our home will be part of the redevelopment of the Shane Warne stand, which is unlikely to start till late ‘27. And until plans and costs are completed and are approved by the Govt, and funding obtained, we will not get any updates unfortunately. 

[chookrat 4,268]

14 hours ago, old dee said:

Just my personal view nothing was said but I just don't see near the G getting up. Development in Docklands is our best chance. We are not taking away current green open space. 

If we look at the Docklands I'm wondering if we look at breaking away from our 'relationship' with the MCC and the a lesser extent the MCG. Make the Docklands precinct our own and include a small boutique stadium with capacity for 10-20k (with room to expand capacity in future decades) for our AFLW and VFL side as well as matches with GWS, GCS and the new Tassie team. The area is a wasteland and the presence of Melbourne would benefit the area, as long as it's not just a place for the admin to function and footy department and team to operate behind closed doors. To do it properly we would also want to break away from Casey and go "All In"to the new location as it will be something we need to work not only for 5 - 10 years but the next 50.

I don't see the point in moving from MCG/Olympic Park/Gotch's to Docklands unless it is a whole of club move that we own as part of our identity. It would also be worth considering aligning with teams from other codes, e.g. United, Storm, Rebels etc. And making the move together.

[old dee 23,872]

11 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Thanks OD for this information and your efforts in chasing the Club on this. 

But on reflection of what you’ve been told, I think the only new info here is that we’ve signed some non disclosure agreement with the Govt - although even this has been implied previously by the Pres. The fact that we have looked at 30 inner Melbourne sites is old news - Bartlett and Pert told us this some years ago now, as stage one of the Master Plan study was to identify and rate numerous (30 was mentioned from memory) possible sites - the outcome being that the MCG precinct was the preferred location. Everything else stated is just political fluff in my view - and certainly not new. 

If I recall correctly, one of the key pillars of our “grand plan” for the club was to have started construction of our new home facility by 2022 (23?). As this has obviously changed, surely it is negligent of the Club to not have informed the members that the goal posts have been shifted, particularly given how important a “pillar” this is for our members. A simple statement that does not contravene the ND agreement would have been all that was required. To not have done this is really poor management in my view. 

For what it’s worth, the only reason I can think of for the “long term nature” of this process is that our home will be part of the redevelopment of the Shane Warne stand, which is unlikely to start till late ‘27. And until plans and costs are completed and are approved by the Govt, and funding obtained, we will not get any updates unfortunately. 

Those time frames are probably Optimistic NC. Some time ago I decided that I would probably never see the MFC home. I am now convinced I won’t. I will just have to enjoy the team as is. 

[old dee 23,872]

9 minutes ago, chookrat said:

If we look at the Docklands I'm wondering if we look at breaking away from our 'relationship' with the MCC and the a lesser extent the MCG. Make the Docklands precinct our own and include a small boutique stadium with capacity for 10-20k (with room to expand capacity in future decades) for our AFLW and VFL side as well as matches with GWS, GCS and the new Tassie team. The area is a wasteland and the presence of Melbourne would benefit the area, as long as it's not just a place for the admin to function and footy department and team to operate behind closed doors. To do it properly we would also want to break away from Casey and go "All In"to the new location as it will be something we need to work not only for 5 - 10 years but the next 50.

I don't see the point in moving from MCG/Olympic Park/Gotch's to Docklands unless it is a whole of club move that we own as part of our identity. It would also be worth considering aligning with teams from other codes, e.g. United, Storm, Rebels etc. And making the move together.

I doubt we would ever leave the G, why would you leave our home and the best stadium in Australia. With 60k+ members we need the space. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

8 minutes ago, old dee said:

Those time frames are probably Optimistic NC. Some time ago I decided that I would probably never see the MFC home. I am now convinced I won’t. I will just have to enjoy the team as is. 

I'd wager I'm younger than you OD, and I genuinely thought I'd never see a flag in my lifetime, don't give up hope mate, and try not to let it dampen your enjoyment of our (hopeful) future success. Thanks for passing on the info and Merry Christmas!

[chookrat 4,268]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

I doubt we would ever leave the G, why would you leave our home and the best stadium in Australia. With 60k+ members we need the space. 

Thanks OD. I'm thinking that we would still play at the G for our home games but also host 2 - 3 games per season at the smaller stadium at Docklands which would primarily be used for AFLW, VFL, perhaps a cricket team and other codes we align with. For VFL I think we should seriously look at breaking away from Casey and either aligning with an existing team (e.g. Port Melbourne if they ran into financial problems and needed to align with an AFL team for survival, or start our own Melbourne based team). While I get the logic of aligning with a growth corridor I'm not convinced we are converting many new members from Casey and I suspect we would do better focussing on growth in the Melbourne / Docklands precinct over the medium to longer term.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

15 hours ago, daisycutter said:

the greens and the 2 marijuana members effectively will hold the balance of power in upper house

"The new ground will surfaced with cannabis plants. The boundary ropes, gazebos, and gear bags made of hemp. Free hashish provided to all affiliated teams, minorites and the underprivileged. Also a new electric scooter to every MP who votes for this."

You've just gotta think outside the square.

(MLC, I know)

Edited December 21, 2022 by Mazer Rackham

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

Currently, the corner of Punt Rd and Swan St has a massive vacant block sitting there. It used to be a car rental place. It was cleared and one apartment/hotel was put up. It looks half completed and abandoned. The rest of that block is completely vacant. If we are serious, we could take that block and put all the club offices and a training facility in there. Players simply walk across the road to Goash’s 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Kick_It_To_Pickett

[Lord Nev 13,512]

8 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Currently, the corner of Punt Rd and Swan St has a massive vacant block sitting there. It used to be a car rental place. It was cleared and one apartment/hotel was put up. It looks half completed and abandoned. The rest of that block is completely vacant. If we are serious, we could take that block and put all the club offices and a training facility in there. Players simply walk across the road to Goash’s 

Ha! Was literally thinking about this the other day when driving past! Yeah there's the vacant corner spot and that block of apartments/offices has never been completed and has been sitting there doing nothing for a couple of years.

I wonder if that could house our admin, shop, pool(s), meeting rooms etc and then maybe that corner over near the bridge we were looking at could house the gym/changerooms so players can walk straight out pretty much onto Gosch's? Not exactly "all in one" but pretty good and over time we may even be able to obtain more spots in that area and really make it ours.

 

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Ha! Was literally thinking about this the other day when driving past! Yeah there's the vacant corner spot and that block of apartments/offices has never been completed and has been sitting there doing nothing for a couple of years.

I wonder if that could house our admin, shop, pool(s), meeting rooms etc and then maybe that corner over near the bridge we were looking at could house the gym/changerooms so players can walk straight out pretty much onto Gosch's? Not exactly "all in one" but pretty good and over time we may even be able to obtain more spots in that area and really make it ours.

 

And it gives us exposure in one of Melbourne’s busiest intersections. It actually seems like a perfect fit. Clearly money has dried up on that apartment thing. No one will want to live there anyway. It’s proximity to the road is horrendous..

It seriously should be under consideration. 

[daisycutter 29,743]

with so many underground tunnels been built in melbourne and copious boring equipment why not an underground stadium and training complex? could be sited almost anywhere under the cbd

https://en.visit-innlandet.no/what-to-do/gjovik-olympic-cavern-hall-p637833

https://www.tourism-review.com/the-first-ever-underground-football-stadium-news1276

 

[DeeZone 10,146]

DC that may be a “bridge to far” even for us desperadoes.!!

[daisycutter 29,743]

18 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

DC that may be a “bridge to far” even for us desperadoes.!!

"Shoot for the moon, even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." (Les Brown)

may the force be with us, dz

[The heart beats true 18,145]

Drove passed Whitten Oval yesterday. That’s a huge new development going in there. If that’s the scale it takes to maintain an AFL club then we are going to be heading very far out for a permanent home - which seems counterproductive.

[Demonstone 22,827]

19 hours ago, daisycutter said:

the greens and the 2 marijuana members effectively will hold the balance of power in upper house

It would take a joint effort to get the deal rolling but that may be a pipedream.